antrin Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 minute ago, nedflanders123 said: What evidence or source do you have to claim it's a lie? Do you honestly believe that the Scottish Government received no written scientific data to support our public health strategy? You don't like Sturgeon/SNP but to claim it's a lie to suit your hatred? I took it that the FOI that he mentioned would be the source? you wouldn’t make that up. would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 I took it that the FOI that he mentioned would be the source? you wouldn’t make that up. would you?The SG publish their responses to FOI requests. Anyone can access these responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Just in case anyBuddie thinks I am over reacting to The Buffoon and his inept coterie... Watch this. I thought you were being a tad over optimistic in your previous post where you hoped it might make then act. more responsibly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 If someone told me, with evidence, that you are a complete walloper, as opposed to writing down that evidence that you're a complete walloper, it amounts to the same thing. 'Fact' is carry an awful lot of the load in that post of his that you've quoted [emoji1] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 25 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: 3 hours ago, antrin said: Just in case anyBuddie thinks I am over reacting to The Buffoon and his inept coterie... Watch this. I thought you were being a tad over optimistic in your previous post where you hoped it might make then act. more responsibly Aye.... I should have suggested it was a call, a wish, a desire or plea for The Buffoon and Cum to be more cautious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Sue Denim said: Sorry, it’s you who is guilt of the will rather than could your Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy regarding lockdown being a classic example Regarding your last paragraph, Vallance is simply stating what I’ve said all along. They haven’t got a clue, have no idea what will happen and have been making it up as they go along. What we do know for certain now is that initial estimates of what would happen were wildly exaggerated and by an order of magnitude. Measures were taken without any scientific evidence to back them up in order to ensure the NHS would not be overwhelmed. These were medieval measures which were no better than measures based on superstition. As it turns out, the NHS didn’t come close to being overwhelmed and based on the example of Sweden, we know that it never would have. And we now also know that Covid is no different from the flu. On this basis, every single measure should be stopped. Lock down being the right call is practically beyond doubt, that's the view of the overwhelming majority of experts. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/05/lockdown-really-worth-telegraph-writers-experts-give-verdict/ You holding onto a view that you were categorically wrong about doesn't change anything. If you're saying "haven't got a clue" why are you so sure they're all wrong and you're right? It defies logic, you've shown you're in no way equipped to make such a sure statement as you have done many times. As for scientific evidence to back it up, how could we possibly have had that? We acted with caution which is the right approach when it comes to human life. To have a view that they should have gambled with this virus to save the economy is ridiculous and failed in countries like Sweden where the economic protection is highly questionable. Look at USA as well, they gambled, they are going back into lockdown in many states, the gamble didn't pay off, why should ours? The NHS would have been overwhelmed, all evidence points to it, it's fact that more contact = more cases. Hospitals were still busy for a time with a lockdown, if there had been none, factually more people would have passed on the virus and more people would end up in hospital, you not understanding that is staggering. Again Sweden can't be used as a direct comparison, it's a country bigger than the UK with a fraction of our population density among other caveats. What we do know about Sweden is no lockdown did not save their economy from a big hit. If Covid was no different from the flu, it wouldn't have been treated as such. Your view defies logic and scientific evidence. If every measure is stopped, we end up worse than USA & Brazil, countries where some measures are in place but Covid19 is still running wild, your claim is again beaten by evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 2 hours ago, Sue Denim said: A FOI request has gone in for Nicola Sturgeon to release the scientific advice she has received throughout the crisis Following the FOI request, it was revealed that the First Minister did not have any written scientific advice during the first few months of the coronavirus outbreak, and so none could be made available to the public. Nicola Sturgeon said instead that the scientific advice that she had received had all been orally, by the National Clinical Director, Jason Leitch, and the Scottish Chief Medical Officer at the time, Catherine Calderwood, and so there was nothing to be released. Deary me As I suspected. There is no scientific advice and they’ve just been making it up as they go along. Well they did a feckin better job with that "made up" science than the UK did with alltheir experts jumping as high as Cummings demanded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sue Denim said: That’s my interpretation of events. At the very least, it’s quite incredible that I’m the biggest crisis of our lifetimes, the Scottish Government is making health interventions based on nothing more than conversations with nothing written down. They’ve just been making it up as they go along. You fool! 😜 It's common knowledge that intelligent people can understand the meaning of a conversation and act on it without actually having to read it. The act of writing it down would be merely to keep a record. I've written this down so YOU might understand this. Edited July 14, 2020 by stlucifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Winter wave of coronavirus 'could be worse than first' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53392148 @Cookie Monster told us this wasn’t possible 😂😂 one way to protect the NHS would be if @Cookie Monster stopped threatening to put anyone who humiliated him online into hospital 😂😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 Now that we’ve had the ‘first wave’ and we now know it’s nothing more than the flu, I think these latest predictions can go straight in the bin Lets stop the madness and get back to normality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: Now that we’ve had the ‘first wave’ and we now know it’s nothing more than the flu, I think these latest predictions can go straight in the bin Lets stop the madness and get back to normality We can look at a very real example of a country that has failed regarding coronavirus to prove you wrong. USA Flu P/A - 9 - 45 million illnesses, 145k - 810k hospitalisations, 12k - 61k deaths Coronavirus since 20th January (less than six months) - 3.43 million illnesses, 264,651 hospitalisations, 138k deaths. this is despite lockdown and social distancing measures that have outweighed any flu season in history by far. We aren't even six months since the first recorded virus in that country and it has been a present factor in almost 140k (properly recorded) deaths. Far few recorded cases so far and far higher death rates than the flu. To think it's "nothing more than the flu" is simply and categorically wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 7 hours ago, antrin said: I'll explain a wee bit about science and the scientific method to you. I'm going to stop you right there. Given that you appear to have no idea what a peer reviewed journal article is, I'm hardly going to be interested in listening to you bumbling and fumbling your way through a description of the scientific method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I'm going to stop you right there. Given that you appear to have no idea what a peer reviewed journal article is, I'm hardly going to be interested in listening to you bumbling and fumbling your way through a description of the scientific method. Straightforward question Oaky and I don't mean this in any pejorative way. Are you on the autistic spectrum? I only ask as you seem only to view the world from one single, comfortable and comforting for you, viewpoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 8 hours ago, TPAFKATS said: 11 hours ago, oaksoft said: UK scientists are warning that a second wave of covid in winter will see 120,000 deaths. They are even talking about 250,000 by next February. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53392148 I wonder what they've corrected in their modelling to be confident of those numbers. According to you yesterday, these folk would die anyway. I personally can't wait for a winter of virtue signalling, moral high ground grabbing and emoting at will from you and bazil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 3 hours ago, antrin said: Aye.... I should have suggested it was a call, a wish, a desire or plea for The Buffoon and Cum to be more cautious... Aye. If only we had you running the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I personally can't wait for a winter of virtue signalling, moral high ground grabbing and emoting at will from you and bazil. Scientific Donald?. A smokescreen for your inability to argue your case more like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 8:49 AM, faraway saint said: Jeezo, them Chinese are now physically grabbing people, bundling them into vans and carting them away to god knows where. Massive over reaction. A view from elsewhere. Posted without comment. https://www.politicsweb.co.za/opinion/how-govt-checkmated-itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 3 hours ago, stlucifer said: It's common knowledge that intelligent people can understand the meaning of a conversation and act on it without actually having to read it. The act of writing it down would be merely to keep a record. I've written this down so YOU might understand this. Wait a wee minute, are you seriously try to say that, if this was true, a government would have made a decision off the back of a telephone call? I know of no business that would make a decision like that with no clarification in black and white, let alone a government making a decision that would impact on millions of people. Take yer tartan specs off and think about it before getting defensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 I personally can't wait for a winter of virtue signalling, moral high ground grabbing and emoting at will from you and bazil. I can't wait for you to show some empathy and avoid making statements that make you sound like Dominic Cummings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: I personally can't wait for a winter of virtue signalling, moral high ground grabbing and emoting at will from you and bazil. Just don't have such poor moral standards and it would never be an issue. 😷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Wait a wee minute, are you seriously try to say that, if this was true, a government would have made a decision off the back of a telephone call? I know of no business that would make a decision like that with no clarification in black and white, let alone a government making a decision that would impact on millions of people. Take yer tartan specs off and think about it before getting defensive. Who mentioned telephone conversations? Take off your tory/unionist specs. In reality the way that these things work, as most sane individuals well know,is that there is a team of scientific advisors who study the evidence and come to a collective decision. This is then communicated to the first minister, who is not a scientific expert, by the incumbent chief medical officer/national clinical director, most likely in the form of a briefing either in person or by an online conference call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Wait a wee minute, are you seriously try to say that, if this was true, a government would have made a decision off the back of a telephone call? I know of no business that would make a decision like that with no clarification in black and white, let alone a government making a decision that would impact on millions of people. Take yer tartan specs off and think about it before getting defensive. I'm saying a decision was made by a collective within government taking into consideration all professional input. There will be a paper trail of those meetings. The scientific input would have only been part of that decision making process and would not necessarily have been given during that meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted July 14, 2020 Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 There was someone on Breakfast this morning - can't remember who, a scientist, maybe? - who used the phrase "reasonable worst case".As a layman with a decent understanding of English, could one of the many, many, over-qualified sciencers on here explain that phrase to me, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 12 minutes ago, FTOF said: Who mentioned telephone conversations? Take off your tory/unionist specs. In reality the way that these things work, as most sane individuals well know,is that there is a team of scientific advisors who study the evidence and come to a collective decision. This is then communicated to the first minister, who is not a scientific expert, by the incumbent chief medical officer/national clinical director, most likely in the form of a briefing either in person or by an online conference call. Apologies, a conversation.........................that makes a big difference. Again, if you are trying to say there was no "paper trail" and she made a decision on the "hoof" with no in depth study then you need a holiday......................oh wait. PS You've got me all wrong on the specs thing, I don't wear specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 14, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said: There was someone on Breakfast this morning - can't remember who, a scientist, maybe? - who used the phrase "reasonable worst case". As a layman with a decent understanding of English, could one of the many, many, over-qualified sciencers on here explain that phrase to me, please. I'm too busy, one of my advisers will be along sometime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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