Coronavirus

[insaintee]

1 hour ago, slapsalmon said:

Christ you've just made a post saying he's right that it's not fact, but he should know what you mean. 😂 Only you. 

 

Highly probable and fact are not the same thing, but hey it's everybody else that's wrong

In that case there are no facts. In fact there are no facts in science hence you get climate change deniers and the like 

Edited August 6, 2020 by insaintee

[Guest TPAFKATS]

If we had eight players out we'd be right in the shit.

As are Aberdeen. Considibe suspended and Cosgrove injured. Main also out I think.
If these 3 aren't part of the 8 then they've just lost their paddle.

[slapsalmon]

54 minutes ago, insaintee said:

In that case there are no facts. In fact there are no facts in science hence you get climate change deniers and the like 

No there are facts. However saying something that is probable is a fact is not correct. 

 

I have a fish tank in my living room is a fact. 

I will still have a fish tank in my living room in 1 months time is not a fact. It is highly probable, but not a fact. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by slapsalmon

[Slarti]

No there are facts. However saying something that is probable is a fact is not correct. 
 
I have a fish tank in my living room is a fact. 
I will still have a fish tank in my living room in 1 months time is not a fact. It is highly probable, but not a fact. 

!!! FREE THE FISHES !!!

[slapsalmon]

21 minutes ago, Slarti said:

45 minutes ago, slapsalmon said:

No there are facts. However saying something that is probable is a fact is not correct. 
 
I have a fish tank in my living room is a fact. 
I will still have a fish tank in my living room in 1 months time is not a fact. It is highly probable, but not a fact. 

!!! FREE THE FISHES !!!

Never said I had fishes 😉

 

That is a fact 😂

[oaksoft]

8 hours ago, insaintee said:

Still hurting from being made to look an ass.  My suggestion is stop acting like an ass. 

 

It's hard to stop acting like an ass when I'm constantly exposed to your wittering buffoonery..

Now, go and talk shite elsewhere and stop wasting my time with your infantile pish.

[Slarti]

Never said I had fishes [emoji6]

 

That is a fact [emoji23]

Good on you, you've already freed them. [emoji38]

 

Edit: Or ate them.

[bazil85]

17 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

I’ve never mentioned climate. It’s only you that keeps mentioning it. Some US graphs below.

Its pretty clear that deaths the world over are following seasonality. Lockdowns, social distancing, masks, any combination or none at all - makes no difference to the shape of any of the graphs.

They all follow seasonality without exception.

If lockdowns worked then why are countries in the Southern Hemisphere that went into lockdown at the same time as us now hitting a peak of deaths now?

Seasonality trumps all - and it’s barely flickered any mention in the media.

 

So when you say "seasonality" what do you specifically mean is impacting it? A bunch of those states are coming into peak summer. 

[bazil85]

17 hours ago, Slarti said:

 

 

 

 

 

I understand the point you are TRYING to make but your point and example are flawed.

As I have said, all you need to do is phrase things as your opinion (or somebody else's) and the problem goes away.

If you said "government figures show", "government advisors claim" or "scientists say" a specific thing, then that is totally different to the way you post things (and not just on this topic). You post that a specific thing IS, when you don't have enough evidence to draw a valid conclusion - no caveats, nothing, just IS, because, well, just because you say it IS. Even saying "the evidence at this moment points to" would better than what you do.

What you are having for dinner, or whether it is your favourite, is of no interest to me. I am willing to accept that at face value as it won't affect me, or anyone outside your immediate circle, in the slightest. Making claims that a specific action can save lives, can affect people outside of your immediate circle. The point that you use this flawed example, shows that you have no idea why some things require evidence, while some don't. If you said you had a pet dog I would take that at face value (I know dogs exist and people keep them as pets), if you said you had a pet extra terrestrial, I would want evidence as that could change lots of things for lots of people.

Since you offered, yes, give me evidence of you not winning the lottery 5 times in a row. Well, you offered, and it would be the first thing you've provided evidence for.

Oh, and what is this random capital letter nonsense about?

 

Na, your pedantry isn't a problem for me. I have shown it to be ineffective. 

[bazil85]

16 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

I also like to post as though my opinion IS a fact and that I’m correct.

That’s mainly because I am always correct....

However, as people will know because I bore them to death with it, I do provide figures to show what I’ve based my opinions on and give the sources.

@bazil85 doesn’t ever give any figures to back up his opinion nor does he give any figures to try and disprove me (albeit, it’s obviously impossible to disprove me because I am always right) 🤔

The first part isn't true, the second part isn't needed, your figures show you are either:

1. Cherry picking or

2. Have made a baseless claim. 

[bazil85]

16 hours ago, Russian Saint said:

 

I tend to agree that lockdown saved lives. My wee mother is in a care home that didn’t have one case. They had dedicated staff, not those that would work between 2 or 3 homes. So I’d say lives were saved.
However. I wonder how many folk have died due to not getting the hospital treatment they required, cancer patients as an example.
How many people were/are effected mentally and how many suicides can be attributed to lockdown, self isolation, job loss, financial strains etc. Maybe if the pop up hospitals had actually been used then maybe some non COVID patients would still be alive if they had their hospital treatment?

Just my tuppence worth.

 

Absolutely agree, this is the horrible nature of the situation we are in. We've had to make some very tough choices in a set of scenarios where we know an outcome doesn't exist where people don't die. Time will tell the gravity of the impact but I feel we have evidenced that locking down was the right call to address the immediate threat of a pandemic that's claimed so many lives. 

13 hours ago, slapsalmon said:

Christ you've just made a post saying he's right that it's not fact, but he should know what you mean. 😂 Only you. 

Highly probable and fact are not the same thing, but hey it's everybody else that's wrong

My post was to highlight how pedantic he is. I won't stop posting the way I do because (IMO) someone saying "well actually even though I agree you are likely completely right by definition that isn't technically a fact"

It doesn't do anything for argument on here, it is a complete waste of time. He does it often, we have spent days, if not weeks, if not months on subjects because he wants to make his little semantic point on what a "fact" is. 

[bazil85]

16 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

I'm offended!
I was his original "stalker", out to get him and disagreeing purely because he said it. Well. In his tiny mind, that was the case.
I realised that responding to him is futile.
Can't believe others still do!

Only took you the 5 million years... Here comes Sarti "technically that wasn't how long it took" lol 

Also you absolutely did disagree with me on a number of things to get the argument going, that actually is a fact.

There was me thinking we had turned a corner with all the likes, silly me 

[slapsalmon]

5 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Absolutely agree, this is the horrible nature of the situation we are in. We've had to make some very tough choices in a set of scenarios where we know an outcome doesn't exist where people don't die. Time will tell the gravity of the impact but I feel we have evidenced that locking down was the right call to address the immediate threat of a pandemic that's claimed so many lives. 

My post was to highlight how pedantic he is. I won't stop posting the way I do because (IMO) someone saying "well actually even though I agree you are likely completely right by definition that isn't technically a fact"

It doesn't do anything for argument on here, it is a complete waste of time. He does it often, we have spent days, if not weeks, if not months on subjects because he wants to make his little semantic point on what a "fact" is. 

But that's the issue most people have. You post something incorrect and say it is a fact when it isn't. If you just posted IMO nobody would bat an eyelid. 

Coming across smug and always correct appears childish and incapable of seeing any merit in someone else's view. 

Regardless wether or not the geezer Andy is right or wrong he posts articles and reasons for his view. You just post and say your opinion is a fact. It's not debating, it's an absolute battle of attrition designed to wear people down. 

People don't have a vendetta against you like you believe. Most people just can't be arsed until every now and again they get annoyed by your use of the word fact and it needs called out. 

Believe it or not you aren't always correct. Ffs the people leading the information gathering on this whole covid pish wouldn't even be calling half the stuff facts as they don't know. They do however say they "believe" or "in their opinion" 

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, slapsalmon said:

But that's the issue most people have. You post something incorrect and say it is a fact when it isn't. If you just posted IMO nobody would bat an eyelid. 

Coming across smug and always correct appears childish and incapable of seeing any merit in someone else's view. 

Regardless wether or not the geezer Andy is right or wrong he posts articles and reasons for his view. You just post and say your opinion is a fact. It's not debating, it's an absolute battle of attrition designed to wear people down. 

People don't have a vendetta against you like you believe. Most people just can't be arsed until every now and again they get annoyed by your use of the word fact and it needs called out. 

Believe it or not you aren't always correct. Ffs the people leading the information gathering on this whole covid pish wouldn't even be calling half the stuff facts as they don't know. They do however say they "believe" or "in their opinion" 

TBF most people aren't as anal as Sarti... My opinion is if he hadn't instigated it, no one (or very few) would have batted an eyelid at a technically, yourself included. 

I'm not sure where I have came across as smug or childish (I'm not the one making a big thing out of defining the word fact by the way), my view seems to be closely aligned with the majority on this chat when it comes to Andy. Yet somehow it (again) ends up the usual suspects having a pop at me. Do you not see any issue with having a go at something so trivial when the person has admitted their view is the same as mine?

As I said, the stuff Andy posts is enough to show his view is wrong (or at the very least unfounded) there's main examples of this. 

1. Andy claims lockdown will kill far more people than the virus. He shares excess death stats that don't back that up and shares a point of agreement where we don't have all/ accurate stats to back that claim. What more could I share to add value that further points to the claim being currently baseless?

2. Andy shares stats in isolation that (supposedly) proves his view that lockdown was wrong, a view he has held since day 1 I might add, before we seen what was to happen. For example points in isolation about Sweden. He again openly admits we don't have enough data to make such a claim. I say it's cherry-picking. Again what more would I be expected to share? This has dominated the news for months, do people genuinely need me to flood this chat like Andy does with a bunch more stats?

Most people don't there are a few that do, I think that's very well evidenced when you put together the different views on this subject yet you see where people have sat in their engagement. 

I will always put my hand up when I am not correct on something that's a valid and worthwhile point. Someone trying to pedantically define what a fact is on a point they agree with me on, not so much. 

[slapsalmon]

35 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

TBF most people aren't as anal as Sarti... My opinion is if he hadn't instigated it, no one (or very few) would have batted an eyelid at a technically, yourself included. 

I'm not sure where I have came across as smug or childish (I'm not the one making a big thing out of defining the word fact by the way), my view seems to be closely aligned with the majority on this chat when it comes to Andy. Yet somehow it (again) ends up the usual suspects having a pop at me. Do you not see any issue with having a go at something so trivial when the person has admitted their view is the same as mine?

As I said, the stuff Andy posts is enough to show his view is wrong (or at the very least unfounded) there's main examples of this. 

1. Andy claims lockdown will kill far more people than the virus. He shares excess death stats that don't back that up and shares a point of agreement where we don't have all/ accurate stats to back that claim. What more could I share to add value that further points to the claim being currently baseless?

2. Andy shares stats in isolation that (supposedly) proves his view that lockdown was wrong, a view he has held since day 1 I might add, before we seen what was to happen. For example points in isolation about Sweden. He again openly admits we don't have enough data to make such a claim. I say it's cherry-picking. Again what more would I be expected to share? This has dominated the news for months, do people genuinely need me to flood this chat like Andy does with a bunch more stats?

Most people don't there are a few that do, I think that's very well evidenced when you put together the different views on this subject yet you see where people have sat in their engagement. 

I will always put my hand up when I am not correct on something that's a valid and worthwhile point. Someone trying to pedantically define what a fact is on a point they agree with me on, not so much. 

Don't start telling me why his view is wrong, I couldn't give a f**k either way or who is right or wrong. I'm also not getting into any debate with you. 

 

As I said, people aren't saying anything because of your view, it's because you paint it as fact. When that is pointed out you do what you've done above or start using mixed up capitals and lower case letters, that is the childish part. Believing you are absolutely 100% correct and everybody else is wrong is the smug part, and it doesn't matter the subject. 

I skipped your post as soon as you started telling me why he was wrong, but on the final part about holding your hands up when your wrong, that's the issue. Right now nobody knows who is right or wrong. Including the people leading the research, yet you shout fact at everything you post. 

You call things fact when they are not a fact, maybe probable but not a fact. You turn every debate into right or wrong so there is actually no debate on the merits of any side of the argument, no middle ground, no conceding that someone may have a point regarding anything. 

You have zero interest in hearing Anyone's opinion if it doesn't match your own, and you bludgeon them with zero evidence of anything all the time shouting fact. There is no debate. It turns into playground shite every single time because of this. There are probably half decent points in there somewhere but nobody reads them because they stop at the first misplaced call of fact. 

If you were open to actually having a debate with people, listening to other points of view, and posting your opinion not painted as a fact they would possibly have a debate, but not the way you act just now. 

 

I believe we have had this very conversation before regarding the way you "debate" so I'm probably wasting my time here. 

 

[bazil85]

11 minutes ago, slapsalmon said:

Don't start telling me why his view is wrong, I couldn't give a f**k either way or who is right or wrong. I'm also not getting into any debate with you. 

 

As I said, people aren't saying anything because of your view, it's because you paint it as fact. When that is pointed out you do what you've done above or start using mixed up capitals and lower case letters, that is the childish part. Believing you are absolutely 100% correct and everybody else is wrong is the smug part, and it doesn't matter the subject. 

I skipped your post as soon as you started telling me why he was wrong, but on the final part about holding your hands up when your wrong, that's the issue. Right now nobody knows who is right or wrong. Including the people leading the research, yet you shout fact at everything you post. 

You call things fact when they are not a fact, maybe probable but not a fact. You turn every debate into right or wrong so there is actually no debate on the merits of any side of the argument, no middle ground, no conceding that someone may have a point regarding anything. 

You have zero interest in hearing Anyone's opinion if it doesn't match your own, and you bludgeon them with zero evidence of anything all the time shouting fact. There is no debate. It turns into playground shite every single time because of this. There are probably half decent points in there somewhere but nobody reads them because they stop at the first misplaced call of fact. 

If you were open to actually having a debate with people, listening to other points of view, and posting your opinion not painted as a fact they would possibly have a debate, but not the way you act just now. 

 

I believe we have had this very conversation before regarding the way you "debate" so I'm probably wasting my time here. 

 

I have already addressed pretty much all of this. 

IMO Sarti and now you demanding I admit I am wrong on something so trivial as the semantics of the word fact regarding my view on lockdown has saved more than zero lives, is what is childish. Yes maybe I have matched that childish behaviour of Sarti but that was to empathise a point that I've made to him several times he's used his pedantic argument technique in the past. 

Let it go, if you want to debate points on Covid19 and the horrible impacts it is having, I'm all ears. I always take in other opinions and views but it doesn't mean I need to conclude by agreeing on them (the irony is it sounds like we are likely on quite similar footing with this)

if you want to be pedantic on the meaning of words on a point that literally adds zero value to this conversation, do it with someone else because I am not interested. 

[slapsalmon]

14 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I have already addressed pretty much all of this. 

IMO Sarti and now you demanding I admit I am wrong on something so trivial as the semantics of the word fact regarding my view on lockdown has saved more than zero lives, is what is childish. Yes maybe I have matched that childish behaviour of Sarti but that was to empathise a point that I've made to him several times he's used his pedantic argument technique in the past. 

Let it go, if you want to debate points on Covid19 and the horrible impacts it is having, I'm all ears. I always take in other opinions and views but it doesn't mean I need to conclude by agreeing on them (the irony is it sounds like we are likely on quite similar footing with this)

if you want to be pedantic on the meaning of words on a point that literally adds zero value to this conversation, do it with someone else because I am not interested. 

For a start you have no idea what footing I'm on. Not once have I put an opinion on here either way, secondly I am demanding nothing. 

 

I am pointing out you paint opinion as fact which you have stated you do as its probable. I have zero interest in debating with a toddler who will not listen

[FTOF]

13 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

14 hours ago, FTOF said:

If we had eight players out we'd be right in the shit.

They appear to have 35 signed players and of the 8 only McKenna and at a push Bryson appear to be guaranteed starters. I think that has influenced the decision to play plus got to get the message through to clubs that they have to be responsible for the actions of their players. They should be getting fined by the club.

 

12 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

As are Aberdeen. Considibe suspended and Cosgrove injured. Main also out I think.
If these 3 aren't part of the 8 then they've just lost their paddle.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53694742

Game aff!

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, slapsalmon said:

For a start you have no idea what footing I'm on. Not once have I put an opinion on here either way, secondly I am demanding nothing. 

 

I am pointing out you paint opinion as fact which you have stated you do as its probable. I have zero interest in debating with a toddler who will not listen

Great, well I have no interest in that given how pedantic you are being. on the point made. Job done. 👍

Edited August 7, 2020 by bazil85

[Slarti]

Na, your pedantry isn't a problem for me. I have shown it to be ineffective. 

Asking questions about the specifics of your claims isn't effective??? What the f**k does that even mean? Unless it means that you avoid answering.

 

[Slarti]

Don't start telling me why his view is wrong, I couldn't give a f**k either way or who is right or wrong. I'm also not getting into any debate with you. 
 
As I said, people aren't saying anything because of your view, it's because you paint it as fact. When that is pointed out you do what you've done above or start using mixed up capitals and lower case letters, that is the childish part. Believing you are absolutely 100% correct and everybody else is wrong is the smug part, and it doesn't matter the subject. 
I skipped your post as soon as you started telling me why he was wrong, but on the final part about holding your hands up when your wrong, that's the issue. Right now nobody knows who is right or wrong. Including the people leading the research, yet you shout fact at everything you post. 
You call things fact when they are not a fact, maybe probable but not a fact. You turn every debate into right or wrong so there is actually no debate on the merits of any side of the argument, no middle ground, no conceding that someone may have a point regarding anything. 
You have zero interest in hearing Anyone's opinion if it doesn't match your own, and you bludgeon them with zero evidence of anything all the time shouting fact. There is no debate. It turns into playground shite every single time because of this. There are probably half decent points in there somewhere but nobody reads them because they stop at the first misplaced call of fact. 
If you were open to actually having a debate with people, listening to other points of view, and posting your opinion not painted as a fact they would possibly have a debate, but not the way you act just now. 
 
I believe we have had this very conversation before regarding the way you "debate" so I'm probably wasting my time here. 
 

Like me, you're wasting your time. He's already been told all this by several people. He, no matter what he claims, is not interested in debate, I'd be surprised if he even knew how to properly debate a point. I haven't even tried to debate him, just asked him for the evidence that he drew his conclusions from. Everyone knows that there isn't enough evidence yet to draw conclusions, even he admits it, yet he continues to call everything he posts a "fact". Admittedly, he did post something above as his opinion, so maybe he's learning. [emoji38]

I suspect that he counts people getting fed up with his pettiness and childishness and no longer engaging with him as a victory. That's all that seems to matter to him. He appears to have no interest in learning anything. Personally, I would want to know if I'm wrong on something, I suspect most people are the same, but he seems to be one of the exceptions.

As for his dice example ... [emoji38]

[Sue Denim]

4,200 Covid deaths in England to be wiped off the death toll.

As I’ve been pointing out, down in England they’ve been overinflating the the Covid deaths while up here in Scotland, they’ve been trying to conceal the true figures.

Thankfully we had the weekly excess deaths mortality reports from the ONS and NRS to get the true picture.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/08/07/nearly-4200-deaths-wiped-official-statistics-due-counting-error-13094465/amp/

[Sue Denim]

Lockdown easing in England has not led to a rise in infections according to a new survey from Imperial College

Well obviously, because a) lockdown did not alter anything and b) the pandemic was already over!

doh!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/06/easing-lockdown-restrictions-did-not-lead-increase-infection/amp/

[Sue Denim]

From The Lancet:

”Rapid border closures, full lockdowns, and wide-spread testing were not associated with COVID-19 mortality per million people. ”

Who to believe.... the experts or @bazil85? 
 

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30208-X/fulltext#

[Sue Denim]

Heart attack deaths rose 40% during lockdown as experts say No 10's 'Stay at Home' drive could have deterred thousands from getting medical help
 

Lockdown killed tens of 000s more than it saved, eh @bazil85?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8592287/Stay-Home-messaging-led-spike-heart-attack-deaths.html