ALBIONSAINT Posted September 7, 2020 Report Share Posted September 7, 2020 Is Westminster now following copying every decision Scotland makes ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/4/2020 at 11:26 PM, antrin said: Well if you're going to make a habit out of posting nonsense about me, I guess that is true in a sense regarding our engagements. THERE’S NOTHING ELSE AVAILABLE TO POST ABOUT YOU Many on here do speak sense though. HOW CAN YOU DISCERN....? Just because you don't agree with something, doesn't make it nonsense. I accept this about many on here, you've went out your way to bring me back in a conversation I've not been commenting much on by using my username. When that happens, you can expect a response. One way to avoid engaging with me if you think it's just "nonsense" wonder if you can guess what it is... I can discern by being an active member of BAWA. As can everyone else, although their standards will of course vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/6/2020 at 8:50 AM, Russian Saint said: My comment regarding Covid part 2 was a bit of sarcasm. Let’s be honest, the way governments deal with the situation at times is laughable (including our own) As far as apathy by individual countries, it’s not a one size fits all. Some countries seemed to fair better than others with lesser restrictions. I’m in no way knocking you for your views and approach on this, you have to do what you believe is best for you and your family. If that's what you were going for, all good. However I do think there are answers/ outstanding unknown concerns about a lot of your questions regarding why we (and other countries) are doing what they do. Yes I agree, there isn't a one size fits all and there also isn't a perfect working solution for Scotland or the UK IMO. I do think cautious is king when it comes to a pandemic but we'll see what happens in the coming months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 In response to Albionsaint's point on an other thread about the government potentially being sued if they change covid advice. I asked what law the government would be breaking and he responded:- Sorry but we should take this over to the coronavirus thread....However here is a starter before the main course. UK Government Faces Lawsuit Over 'Failure' to Provide COVID-19 Support for Precarious Workers", 24 March 2020 The Independent Workers Union of Great Britain (IWGB) has announced that it will be taking legal action against the UK government over its COVID-19 economic support measures which - they argue - "discriminate" against, and fail to provide proper support for, self-employed workers, women, minority groups, and those in the "gig economy".. ...Boris Johnson's government announced that it will provide £25,000 cash grants for small businesses, pay employees' wages up to 80% (up to £2,500 a month), "so someone can be furloughed rather than laid off", defer tax collections, and abolish business rates for the hospitality, retail, and leisure sectors for one year... ...But most of the COVID-19-related economic measures, including the wage subsidies, don't assist self-employed or precarious workers... can you imagine what would happen if the government was to go against WHO advice? It would make PPI look like chicken feed. OK, so my first thoughts are that the IWGB will fail in this lawsuit. The government had no obligation whatsoever to provide either furlough payments or self employment grants during the lockdown and they've broken no anti-discrimination laws as far as I can see. They certainly have not discriminated against either women or minority groups. That is a ridiculous claim by that union. Maybe they just have money to burn on a useless lawsuit? Plenty of self employed people (including myself) were given fantastic help by the government. Some of that support was in the region of tens of thousands of pounds so they are wrong to suggest that the self employed were not assisted. Certain self employed people were left out but as I said, they'll need to show a break of the law and if discrimination is the route they are going down they'll lose IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 On 9/6/2020 at 3:24 PM, BuddieinEK said: Pops head round corner... Same "experts" spouting same shite. Retreats and leaves thread well alone. 20 hours ago, BuddieinEK said: Poor effort. Fail I assume you mean your attempt at honesty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 The plant professor, nah I will give him a miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 England going back to restrictions on social gatherings of more than 6. This is truly f**king depressing. I’m lost for words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: England going back to restrictions on social gatherings of more than 6. This is truly f**king depressing. I’m lost for words All the stuff happening recently feels tip of the iceberg to me. I can see a lot more in the way of restrictions incoming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 21 minutes ago, bazil85 said: All the stuff happening recently feels tip of the iceberg to me. I can see a lot more in the way of restrictions incoming. That’s what I was indicating the other day. You could just sense the MSM ramping things up. The problem is, like Fricky Troll I don’t believe a f**kin syllable we’re being told. The question you have to ask yourself is what is the political gain to be had from all of this shite. I don’t want to speak about the utter buffoon in Downing St, but in Scotland (whatever your political persuasion) you have to admit that the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon are arguably the most popular party and leader in Scottish politics for many years and even they are ruining their own credibility by pandering to all this shite. For me a real leader here would buck this horrific trend and PROPERLY look after the country they presided over. I doubt there is a bigger fan of Nicola Sturgeon than me and it speaks volumes to me that I am now calling her into question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: That’s what I was indicating the other day. You could just sense the MSM ramping things up. The problem is, like Fricky Troll I don’t believe a f**kin syllable we’re being told. The question you have to ask yourself is what is the political gain to be had from all of this shite. I don’t want to speak about the utter buffoon in Downing St, but in Scotland (whatever your political persuasion) you have to admit that the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon are arguably the most popular party and leader in Scottish politics for many years and even they are ruining their own credibility by pandering to all this shite. For me a real leader here would buck this horrific trend and PROPERLY look after the country they presided over. I doubt there is a bigger fan of Nicola Sturgeon than me and it speaks volumes to me that I am now calling her into question. I have to say that I am the same as you. I really liked Sturgeon and would like to see her remain in power but this has damaged my opinion of her. I no longer trust her judgment. She's a panicker and I can't abide that type. Worse than that, she's hiding behind scientists and IMO that is cowardly and unforgiveable. She's permanently tainted in my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I have to say that I am the same as you. I really liked Sturgeon and would like to see her remain in power but this has damaged my opinion of her. I no longer trust her judgment. She's a panicker and I can't abide that type. Worse than that, she's hiding behind scientists and IMO that is cowardly and unforgiveable. She's permanently tainted in my eyes. So Oaky (or anyone else for that matter), what do we believe is the political capital to be gained from this behaviour? Or should I say what do we think the likes of Nicola THINKS is the political gain? Are we to believe that she is really unable to see her credibility being eroded, or are people with our view actually in the minority and in fact her credibility isn’t being eroded at all? I honestly don’t know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted September 8, 2020 Report Share Posted September 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I have to say that I am the same as you. I really liked Sturgeon and would like to see her remain in power but this has damaged my opinion of her. I no longer trust her judgment. She's a panicker and I can't abide that type. Worse than that, she's hiding behind scientists and IMO that is cowardly and unforgiveable. She's permanently tainted in my eyes. Sorry, the other thing I meant to say was that if there was one thing I didn’t think Nicola was, it’s a panicker. On the contrary I thought she was the opposite. I always had her pinned as an extremely level headed politician, with very considered opinions who was very skilled at not leaving herself open to criticism such as this. Like you though I am starting to see her in a different light. That is a very sad thought for me because as a strong supporter for Scottish independence I felt that a Sturgeon led SNP was the best vehicle to achieve that. Now I’m unconvinced it will happen in my lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 6 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: So Oaky (or anyone else for that matter), what do we believe is the political capital to be gained from this behaviour? Or should I say what do we think the likes of Nicola THINKS is the political gain? Are we to believe that she is really unable to see her credibility being eroded, or are people with our view actually in the minority and in fact her credibility isn’t being eroded at all? I honestly don’t know. It's a case of over compensation. Back in March, politicians were slow to react and got it wrong, emptying hospitals into care homes for instance. This has led to a fear induced cautiousness, and sadly most people are still accepting of this and blaming others for not sticking to the "rules". This might turn, but probably not for a while yet. Fear and rationality rarely go hand in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: Sorry, the other thing I meant to say was that if there was one thing I didn’t think Nicola was, it’s a panicker. On the contrary I thought she was the opposite. I always had her pinned as an extremely level headed politician, with very considered opinions who was very skilled at not leaving herself open to criticism such as this. Like you though I am starting to see her in a different light. That is a very sad thought for me because as a strong supporter for Scottish independence I felt that a Sturgeon led SNP was the best vehicle to achieve that. Now I’m unconvinced it will happen in my lifetime. It's difficult to know but I thinks she is a naturally very cautious person and feels a strong need to be in control and this virus will have shaken her to her core. This looks like classic control freakery to me. I think Hendo has it right when he talks about fear and rationality not being good bedfellows. Moving old people into care homes can be looked at as a disaster. That was clearly a panic thing. Maybe she's afraid of seeing her legacy disappear if she gets this wrong and lots of people end up dying. That will definitely be on her mind. Being FM and leading the country to independence is what her whole career has been about and right at the last second this virus hits. You'd have a hard job convincing me that this hasn't played a role in her thinking. Scots are a weird bunch though. We are a long way from the pioneering, gallus, adventuring and innovative nation we used to be. Instead, we are cautious, risk averse bunch on the whole and we seem to absolutely hate change. There is a limit though as Labour found out. I don't think Sturgeon is at that limit yet but there's no doubt that this situation and her overreaction to it is causing problems for her.Right now I think most people are still saying "Well it could be worse. At least she's not Johnson or Trump". ETA. I will say this. IMO if we are to gain independence it will have to be through her. I can't think of anyone else in the SNP capable of leading the country to a Yes vote. She is head and shoulders above anyone else in terms of stature and charisma. Problem is that she's already been in charge 6 years and all leaders have a lifespan. Edited September 9, 2020 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russian Saint Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 It's difficult to know but I thinks she is a naturally very cautious person and feels a strong need to be in control and this virus will have shaken her to her core. This looks like classic control freakery to me. I think Hendo has it right when he talks about fear and rationality not being good bedfellows. Moving old people into care homes can be looked at as a disaster. That was clearly a panic thing. Maybe she's afraid of seeing her legacy disappear if she gets this wrong and lots of people end up dying. That will definitely be on her mind. Being FM and leading the country to independence is what her whole career has been about and right at the last second this virus hits. You'd have a hard job convincing me that this hasn't played a role in her thinking. Scots are a weird bunch though. We are a long way from the pioneering, gallus, adventuring and innovative nation we used to be. Instead, we are cautious, risk averse bunch on the whole and we seem to absolutely hate change. There is a limit though as Labour found out. I don't think Sturgeon is at that limit yet but there's no doubt that this situation and her overreaction to it is causing problems for her.Right now I think most people are still saying "Well it could be worse. At least she's not Johnson or Trump". ETA. I will say this. IMO if we are to gain independence it will have to be through her. I can't think of anyone else in the SNP capable of leading the country to a Yes vote. She is head and shoulders above anyone else in terms of stature and charisma. Problem is that she's already been in charge 6 years and all leaders have a lifespan.I must admit, I’m not a big admirer of Sturgeon and have drifted away from the SNP after 2014.However, in her defence WRT COVID she was in a “dammed if you do” situation and at the start of COVID where no one globally in her role knew what to do.In saying that as time went on and over the worst of COVID in terms of deaths etc, she still seems to change her mind like the weather.Yes more cases have been recorded of late, but virtually no one is dying from it now. The more people I speak to and even reading comments on here, I think her popularity is waning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 10 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: That’s what I was indicating the other day. You could just sense the MSM ramping things up. The problem is, like Fricky Troll I don’t believe a f**kin syllable we’re being told. The question you have to ask yourself is what is the political gain to be had from all of this shite. I don’t want to speak about the utter buffoon in Downing St, but in Scotland (whatever your political persuasion) you have to admit that the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon are arguably the most popular party and leader in Scottish politics for many years and even they are ruining their own credibility by pandering to all this shite. For me a real leader here would buck this horrific trend and PROPERLY look after the country they presided over. I doubt there is a bigger fan of Nicola Sturgeon than me and it speaks volumes to me that I am now calling her into question. There was an expert offering a very concerned view the other night on news at ten, a former member of SAGE. He was warning that a much more damaging phase of the pandemic is all but inevitable and he confirmed that re-infection was happening at home. He seemed very gloomy and concerned and stated that the advice to limit the numbers in domestic gatherings had to come forward (as it did in England less than 24 hours later). He also felt that the return of students to universities was liable to be a tipping point. 10 hours ago, oaksoft said: I have to say that I am the same as you. I really liked Sturgeon and would like to see her remain in power but this has damaged my opinion of her. I no longer trust her judgment. She's a panicker and I can't abide that type. Worse than that, she's hiding behind scientists and IMO that is cowardly and unforgiveable. She's permanently tainted in my eyes. I dont think she is panicking, possibly in the throes of giving us all one last chance to improve COVID behaviours before reaching for the national lockdown switch. if anything, she might well come to regret not going in harder on current advice. I don't think she is hiding behind scientists, politicians make decisions on their own account whilst paying heed to expert advice. She has consistently taken responsibility for her decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) On 9/7/2020 at 7:43 PM, Sue Denim said: The Royal College of GPs defines the baseline threshold for normal seasonal activity in England as 30 to 200 GP consultations for influenza like illness per week per 100,000 population. An epidemic would be more than 200 consultations per week. Herr Sturgeon is locking us down for breaching 20 “cases” per week. These “cases” include false positives and asymptomatic cases (probably more than 90%). Frau Sturgeon would be more appropriate, if she were of German descent. But she's not so your point is somewhat ridiculous. Edited September 9, 2020 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 Boris makes it ILLEGAL for anyone in England to gather in groups of more than 6 indoors or outdoors. That's more draconian than any SG restriction so far since the full lockdown. As for his "moonshot" programme to allow fans to have to take a new instant test to prove negativity ahead of every event you want to attend that's more moon howling than moon shot. He's managing to out Trump the Donald. Totally lost it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint@Johnstone Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 I should imagine that despite Johnson’s threats of increased police powers , fines and Covid marshals ( bouncers) , the people of England are more than likely to ignore his pontifications as the horse has already bolted since the real prime ministers “eyesight “ test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 Do you honestly think that these decisions are taken by Boris as he's sitting having his lunch? FFS, get real, there's a whole bundle of people involved before these decisions are taken. You've out trumped Trump coming out with that nonsense. [emoji38]Does Trump either, in principle it's the exact same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 I don't think NS is panicking over Covid policy, if you look at her policy with regard to austerity it has been to increase Income Tax in Scotland by 1% (with adjusted bands) compared to the UK as a whole, less than the Scottish government is allowed, similarly her Covid relaxation policy was to ease policies a little later and by not quite as much and then last week to be more severe quarantine restrictions from Greece. How BJ & NS are judged on the handling of the Covid crisis will be the most important issue in next year's Holyrood elections. certainly way more important than the constitutional issues and potential breaking of international law surrounding Brexit - ah if only we could go back to June when BJ said we had "turned the tide on Covid" which sounds remarkably complacent in light of the recently announced restrictions. I reckon NSs Covid strategy is far from panic but a cautious approach designed to contrast with policy down South - she's been far from faultless but is still way ahead of her opponent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Ayrshire Saints said: Boris makes it ILLEGAL for anyone in England to gather in groups of more than 6 indoors or outdoors. That's more draconian than any SG restriction so far since the full lockdown. As for his "moonshot" programme to allow fans to have to take a new instant test to prove negativity ahead of every event you want to attend that's more moon howling than moon shot. He's managing to out Trump the Donald. Totally lost it. It’s oven ready! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said: I don't think NS is panicking over Covid policy, if you look at her policy with regard to austerity it has been to increase Income Tax in Scotland by 1% (with adjusted bands) compared to the UK as a whole, less than the Scottish government is allowed, similarly her Covid relaxation policy was to ease policies a little later and by not quite as much and then last week to be more severe quarantine restrictions from Greece. How BJ & NS are judged on the handling of the Covid crisis will be the most important issue in next year's Holyrood elections. certainly way more important than the constitutional issues and potential breaking of international law surrounding Brexit - ah if only we could go back to June when BJ said we had "turned the tide on Covid" which sounds remarkably complacent in light of the recently announced restrictions. I reckon NSs Covid strategy is far from panic but a cautious approach designed to contrast with policy down South - she's been far from faultless but is still way ahead of her opponent. “Way ahead”? Between they threw 25,000 elderly patients out of hospital, condemning many of them to death. Between them they’ve caused tens of thousands of non COVID collateral deaths so far with thousands more to come and thousands dying every week. Between they’ve wrecked the livelihoods of millions in the U.K. Between then they’ve condemned hundreds of millions in the third world to death and poverty. Scotland has the worst mortality rate in Western Europe in 2020. Hardly something to be proud of. History will judge what they’ve done badly. Edited September 9, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) Just been watching the bubble didnae burst goals from 99/00. Great memories. One bit did stick out. The game against Dunfermline around xmas at East End Park was called off because of a flu outbreak at St Mirren. More people died in 99/00 from the winter onwards to this point than have died in the same period 2019/2020. And that’s despite a flu vaccine. We didn’t shut down the economy and the NHS back then so why now? Edited September 9, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted September 9, 2020 Report Share Posted September 9, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said: Boris makes it ILLEGAL for anyone in England to gather in groups of more than 6 indoors or outdoors. That's more draconian than any SG restriction so far since the full lockdown. As for his "moonshot" programme to allow fans to have to take a new instant test to prove negativity ahead of every event you want to attend that's more moon howling than moon shot. He's managing to out Trump the Donald. Totally lost it. Do you still use your wife’s police ID card to jump queues and shop at times reserved for NHS workers or the elderly? Edited September 9, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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