Coronavirus

[Sue Denim]

1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

@Sue Denim

I'll always respond to reasonable people in a reasonable manner, your posts don't back up your claims you make, and the delight you take in repeating the number of excess deaths which everybody knows in ghoulish.

I don't mind if you keep on expressing your delight in other peoples tragedies but I will continue to call you out on it.

Your use of the word reasonable is merely another attempt to shut down the topic of discussion. As is your use of the words delight and ghoulish.

I think I do back up the posts I make and likewise, I don’t believe that you do. 

You want the discussion on deaths  to be stopped and swept under the carpet. 

I won’t be shut down by your bullying. 

[Russian Saint]

I think you are probably correct but people have got to stop presenting this as a fact.
It's not a fact at all.
We have no real idea whether lockdown helped or not. We can only assume at this stage.
Same goes for apportioning blame for the excess deaths. Don't be so certain about any of this.

There’s a lot of debate about whether lockdown was effective or not, but during the initial few months period, flights/ferries and dinghies were still arriving every day, no checks, no quarantine. In my opinion it kinda defeated the purpose.

[oaksoft]

10 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

Spain had over 150 deaths yesterday alone, a few weeks ago they 1 or 2 a day...  but don't let me get in the way of a good conspiracy story... just crack on Sue and ignore me and any facts out there 

That was one day. They've been averaging only 30-ish for weeks with rare spikes.

It's too early to be using that single figure as the norm.

[portmahomack saint]

2 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

conspiracy theory?
 

oh dear,

Conflating being anti lockdown with conspiracy theories has been a tactic of the pro lockdown brigade from the start....

can you tell me what conspiracy theory you think I’m putting out there? 

I suppose it’s easier than actually answering any of the questions I put to you.

Then again, I’m pretty certain that you don’t know the answers to any of them.

Do you really believe that 150 people suddenly died of Covid yesterday in Spain in such a massive jump?

What were the actual date of deaths for these cases and where did they happen?

Do you believe the Spanish Government are lying and putting information out that could further damage their economy and tourism industry ??   that Suzie is a conspiracy theory   

[Sue Denim]

The real truth @Bud the Baker is that it’s you and the pro lockdown brigade who have taken ghoulish delight in the death toll.

Your problem with my analysis that shows it was the lockdown that has caused the bulk of the deaths and the government was pushed into that lockdown by the media and public opinion.

It’s something that you and the rest of the country don’t want to face up to.

[Bud the Baker]

1 minute ago, Sue Denim said:

The real truth @Bud the Baker is that it’s you and the pro lockdown brigade who have taken ghoulish delight in the death toll.

Your problem with my analysis that shows it was the lockdown that has caused the bulk of the deaths and the government was pushed into that lockdown by the media and public opinion.

It’s something that you and the rest of the country don’t want to face up to.

Yeah I supported the lockdown and think it was a week or so too late - I believe it saved lives but that if it had been implemented earlier it could have saved more.

Your continual throwing death totals in other people's faces as if you are superior is ghoulish and your pathetic attempt to invert this will again fool no-one.

[Sue Denim]

Hanson’s razor is why I don’t believe in conspiracy theories @portmahomack saint

 "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity",

And human stupidity is the root cause of the world’s problems this year.

[portmahomack saint]

2 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Hanson’s razor is why I don’t believe in conspiracy theories @portmahomack saint

 "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity",

And human stupidity is the root cause of the world’s problems this year.

Don't you mean Hanlon's Razor 

[Sue Denim]

Strange how “ cases” have risen ever since masks were mandated.....

Meanwhile over in no lockdown and mask free Sweden, cases, hospitalisations and deaths continue to flatline...

[portmahomack saint]

8 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Hanson’s razor is why I don’t believe in conspiracy theories @portmahomack saint

 "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity",

And human stupidity is the root cause of the world’s problems this year.

I'm more of a Finagle's Law man myself  

[Sue Denim]

You’d think that lockdown restrictions and masks would have altered the influenza death rate.

Yet it’s tracked the 5 year average throughout the year and is currently  killing more people (and flu kills children), than Covid.

How can that be?

Graph produced by ONS

[Sue Denim]

From the latest ONS figures

So far this year flu and pneumonia (non Covid related) have killed 46,929 people in England and Wales - some of them children.

These are deaths where flu and pneumonia was the main cause of death.

Covid deaths (which will include people who died of other causes but tested positive for Covid or had suspected Covid) sit at 51,818.

Flu and pneumonia will kill far more people in the U.K. this year than Covid - and that’s despite and a lockdown AND having a vaccine.

But no-one gives a shit about that.

[bazil85]

36 minutes ago, Russian Saint said:

 

There’s a lot of debate about whether lockdown was effective or not, but during the initial few months period, flights/ferries and dinghies were still arriving every day, no checks, no quarantine. In my opinion it kinda defeated the purpose.

 

I think it's a fair point that sort of stuff should have been happening. But I don't see how it defeated the purpose, there's clear correlation between lockdown and a level of control over this virus. 

People can say "don't present this as fact" all they want but it's beyond all reasonable doubt that lockdown curbed the spread of the virus in the UK. 

[oaksoft]

36 minutes ago, portmahomack saint said:

Do you believe the Spanish Government are lying and putting information out that could further damage their economy and tourism industry ??   that Suzie is a conspiracy theory   

It could be a genuine spike or it could be a backlog or a re-interpretation of other deaths or it could quite easily be a corrected update from care homes going back a few weeks as we saw in the UK several times.

Like I said earlier, it's way too soon to be using that figure to prove anything.

[portmahomack saint]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

It could be a genuine spike or it could be a backlog or a re-interpretation of other deaths or it could quite easily be a corrected update from care homes going back a few weeks as we saw in the UK several times.

Like I said earlier, it's way too soon to be using that figure to prove anything.

Fair enough we'll ignore yesterday's total.  let's use today's figures then 239 I'd call that a spike, wouldn't you 

[portmahomack saint]

1 minute ago, Long John Baldy said:

Shhh, don't mention Italy.

Remember them, everybody's favourite to quote in the early days.

Anybody that likes a stat check them out. 

You didn't like that wee stat did you Baldy  

[Sue Denim]

Carl Heneghan has published another paper today 

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/death-certificate-data-covid-19-as-the-underlying-cause-of-death/

Key points

Previously, roughly one in thirteen (7.8%) deaths with COVID-19 on the death certificate did not have the disease as the underlying cause of death, this proportion has risen substantially to 29% (nearly a third) for the last eight weeks of reporting.
 

While death certification is rightly regarded as a gold standard for the ascertainment of cause of death, it is important to be able to distinguish between deaths where COVID-19 was a contributory cause from those where COVID-19 was the underlying cause of death. It appears that, over the course of the epidemic, a change to the respective composition of deaths in this regard has taken place.

The distinction between the underlying cause of death and any other mention on the death certificate will be increasingly important as we enter the autumn and winter months where increases in respiratory illness are observed annually. This is particularly so since the ONS’s weekly release of data includes a breakdown of deaths featuring COVID-19 according to whether it appeared in any mention on the death certificate, and of a broad classification of ICD-10 codes only according to whether any featured as the underlying cause of death.

[Tommy]

Heneghan is also the guy who told both governments that the tests were throwing up false positives due to detection of dead virus cells.
To suggest people like him are not credible scientists is ridiculous.
Mind you, antrin IS a bus driver so perhaps he is fully qualified to comment on the credibility of professional scientists. [emoji38]

My wife have had talks with prof Henegham and he had been a great supporter of her MESH campaign and as you say, people like him needs to be listen to more.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, portmahomack saint said:

Fair enough we'll ignore yesterday's total.  let's use today's figures then 239 I'd call that a spike, wouldn't you 

No.

You need to see a trend first and that requires around a week of those sorts of figures.

239 deaths is not a very large total anyway in comparison with other expected deaths.

Nearly 500 die of cancer in the UK every single day.

Just shy of 100 a day die of diabetes.

Just shy of 500 die of heart and respiratory problems every day.

But 20 to 50 covid deaths in a day in the UK and the country collectively shits its pants and shuts down?

We are rapidly losing perspective over this,

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by oaksoft

[ALBIONSAINT]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Heneghan is also the guy who told both governments that the tests were throwing up false positives due to detection of dead virus cells.

To suggest people like him are not credible scientists is ridiculous.

Mind you, antrin IS a bus driver so perhaps he is fully qualified to comment on the credibility of professional scientists. 

Why not ? Every taxi driver I have ever met was an expert on the economy 😂

[Sue Denim]

On 2/28/2020 at 6:53 PM, djchapsticks said:

It's a severe flu virus FFS. I can't believe the level folk are losing their minds at. Influenza kills tens of thousands every year as well. 

Unless you have a weak constitution that causes it to be life threatening, you're going to be floored by it if you catch it and then get over it in a few weeks.

Interesting to look back at folk’s opinions at the start before they succumbed to the mass hysteria 

[Sue Denim]

On 3/16/2020 at 9:24 PM, TPAFKATS said:

This industry along with cafes pubs and restraints will be f**ked. Government hasn't told them to close, just told folk not to attend.
This means they can't claim insurance. Spineless cunts

Funny to look back at the utter drivel that certain fools came out with 

[Sue Denim]

On 3/17/2020 at 7:13 PM, TPAFKATS said:

If it was an instruction from government many businesses state that they would have been able to claim on their insurance.
Instead it was a request, so business can't claim.
 

Doubling down on his lie 

[Sue Denim]

On 3/18/2020 at 3:32 PM, TPAFKATS said:

 

We've done nothing for 6 or 8 weeks when we shouldve been restricting travel and now it's panic mode.

 

Not once on this thread in the 6-8 weeks prior to this post does this poster suggest restricting travel. Not once does he suggest any restrictions.

[Sue Denim]

On 3/19/2020 at 10:57 AM, TPAFKATS said:

Ah I see you've gone into full patriotic flag waving mode.

You continue with that, I'll continue to point out that our government has been utter ineffectual for 2 months.

 

Except that you never pointed out how ineffectual they were in the prior 2 months at all.....😉