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faraway saint

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

When you say "eat the rich", is it because the average Scot has literally eaten everything else he can chuck in a deep fryer?

Hmmm I wonder why Scots die earlier than most other European countries. It really is quite the conundrum.

Some interesting theory’s on this out there. (The Glasgow effect or Scottish effect) 

Although lower income levels are generally associated with poor health and shorter lifespan, epidemiologists have argued that poverty alone does not appear to account for the disparity found in Glasgow.[2][5][6][7][8][4] Equally deprived areas of the UK such as Liverpool and Manchester have higher life expectancies, and the wealthiest ten percent of the Glasgow population have a lower life expectancy than the same group in other cities.[9] One in four men in Glasgow will die before his sixty-fifth birthday.[10]

Several hypotheses have been proposed to account for the ill health, including the practice in the 1960s and 1970s of offering young, skilled workers in Glasgow social housing in new towns, leaving behind a demographically "unbalanced population".[11] Other suggested factors have included a high prevalence of premature and low birthweight births, land contaminated by toxins, a high level of derelict land, more deindustrialisation than in comparable cities, poor social housing, religious sectarianism, lack of social mobility, soft water,[12] vitamin D deficiency, cold winters, higher levels of poverty than the figures suggest, adverse childhood experiences and childhood stress, high levels of stress in general, and social alienation.[13]
 

 

 

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

When you say "eat the rich", is it because the average Scot has literally eaten everything else he can chuck in a deep fryer?

Hmmm I wonder why Scots die earlier than most other European countries. It really is quite the conundrum.

I remember reading some research on Epigenetic trauma (gene damage from past generations) there was a strong correlation between how our near ancestors ( great, great grandparents) living in damp housing conditions and present day asthma? Are the Scottish stuck in a damaged gene pool? Fascinating stuff. 

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3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

You were indeed "classy" last night but priggish is a better term for it. 

As ever your priggishness stands out.

I had to go and look that word up.

It's perfect!

But also, apart from the cost to the NHS, I don't care much about the consequences of the life choices of grown adults.

So there's that as well...

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2 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Some interesting theory’s on this out there. (The Glasgow effect or Scottish effect) 

Although lower income levels are generally associated with poor health and shorter lifespan, epidemiologists have argued that poverty alone does not appear to account for the disparity found in Glasgow.[2][5][6][7][8][4] Equally deprived areas of the UK such as Liverpool and Manchester have higher life expectancies, and the wealthiest ten percent of the Glasgow population have a lower life expectancy than the same group in other cities.[9] One in four men in Glasgow will die before his sixty-fifth birthday.[10]

Several hypotheses have been proposed to account for the ill health, including the practice in the 1960s and 1970s of offering young, skilled workers in Glasgow social housing in new towns, leaving behind a demographically "unbalanced population".[11] Other suggested factors have included a high prevalence of premature and low birthweight births, land contaminated by toxins, a high level of derelict land, more deindustrialisation than in comparable cities, poor social housing, religious sectarianism, lack of social mobility, soft water,[12] vitamin D deficiency, cold winters, higher levels of poverty than the figures suggest, adverse childhood experiences and childhood stress, high levels of stress in general, and social alienation.[13]
 

 

 

In my opinion, it's lifestyle choices which stand out the most. It's fascinating that this isn't even considered. It's as though nobody wants to even countenance the idea that personal responsibility is at the root of this because then they don't have something to batter the government with.

You just have to look around these areas. The number of obese people is just extraordinary. Drug abuse, alcohol abuse and heavy smoking are all there too. If anyone is genuinely interested in solving this problem they need to start looking at what's right in front of their faces instead of being afraid to speak out loud for fear of offending these people.

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2 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

I remember reading some research on Epigenetic trauma (gene damage from past generations) there was a strong correlation between how our near ancestors ( great, great grandparents) living in damp housing conditions and present day asthma? Are the Scottish stuck in a damaged gene pool? Fascinating stuff. 

There might be some merit in that but they really have to rule out the blatantly obvious self-harming behaviour that I listed above first before I would consider that to be a prime factor.

People everywhere lived in damp housing conditions in those days. Eire was notorious for it but they don't have our figures of early deaths (I don't think).

Edited by oaksoft
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A varied selection of society attended that protests yesterday, last week the media called them conspiracy theorists and right wing.
Video evidence of some very heavy handed tactics by the Police TSG, absolutely no need for that level of force.
 

Yeah, can't believe the way those police officers just casually rode their horses on that street. How dare they move over to let cars by when anyone could have been standing on that part of the road. [emoji44]
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3 hours ago, Russian Saint said:

 

 

 

A varied selection of society attended that protests yesterday, last week the media called them conspiracy theorists and right wing.

Video evidence of some very heavy handed tactics by the Police TSG, absolutely no need for that level of force.

 

 

Where is the heavy handedness?

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I said “video evidence of heavy handedness” I didn’t say it was within that video. Unfortunately the video I have proving my point, I can’t upload it on here. No doubt it’ll appear on YouTube so I’ll attach the link.
There’s a woman I’d say around 60 years old (very well dressed and respectable looking) standing on a chair waving what looks like a small flag. A police officer comes from behind and pulls said chair away from her causing her to fall forward. Another officer grabs her flag and pulls the woman towards him. It looks like he then punches her in the stomach causing her to fall backwards on to the ground.

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9 minutes ago, Russian Saint said:

 

 


Approximately 1 minute in you’ll see said incident.

 

I'm not completely sure what happened there. It's not very clear.

What I do know is that a hoarde of aggressive thugs decided to attack the police.

I think that woman is seen on this other video here: Again I can't be certain what happened with her.  I have to say that people who treat the police like this, try to provoke a reaction out of them whilst filming it and then run crying to the press when they end up hurt need to have a good look at themselves. It's very easy to criticise the police from behind a warm safe PC screen. In the middle of that it must have been a nightmare.

 

 

Edited by oaksoft
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I'm not completely sure what happened there. It's not very clear.
What I do know is that a hoarde of aggressive thugs decided to attack the police.
I think that woman is seen on this other video here: Again I can't be certain what happened with her.  I have to say that people who treat the police like this, try to provoke a reaction out of them whilst filming it and then run crying to the press when they end up hurt need to have a good look at themselves. It's very easy to criticise the police from behind a warm safe PC screen. In the middle of that it must have been a nightmare.
 
 


I don’t know why the police had to turn up in riot gear. This was nothing like the Brexit or BLM protests, there were families there, general Joe public, left, right, black, white, old and young. I didn’t see a hoard of thugs in any of the footage that I’ve seen. Granted, there will be some idiots in amongst them.
Another video was of a very well spoken 59 year old man that had been punched in the face by a police officer. The guy was with two females that I suspect were his wife and daughter.
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5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

In my opinion, it's lifestyle choices which stand out the most. It's fascinating that this isn't even considered. It's as though nobody wants to even countenance the idea that personal responsibility is at the root of this because then they don't have something to batter the government with.

You just have to look around these areas. The number of obese people is just extraordinary. Drug abuse, alcohol abuse and heavy smoking are all there too. If anyone is genuinely interested in solving this problem they need to start looking at what's right in front of their faces instead of being afraid to speak out loud for fear of offending these people.

To be honest I did used to have this attitude also, however the evidence around the impact of adverse childhood events (ACEs) is compelling. I have never met anyone who when asked what they wanted to be when they grow up is a drug addict, alcoholic or morbidly obese. I have attached a video which I watched for the first time several years ago, it changed my perspective. 
 

 

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5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

There might be some merit in that but they really have to rule out the blatantly obvious self-harming behaviour that I listed above first before I would consider that to be a prime factor.

People everywhere lived in damp housing conditions in those days. Eire was notorious for it but they don't have our figures of early deaths (I don't think).

It’s chicken or egg stuff, catch 22, the stuff you listed is the symptoms, it’s not the cause. Increase living standards for everyone and provide a decent early intervention for children and these symptoms will slowly disappear over time. To be fair the Scottish government have been doing this with increased childcare provision, child poverty interventions and changes to child protection ( illegal to physically chastise) the article below links American civil war prisoners and the effects of epigenetic transmission. It’s a fascinating subject. 

34CB3A79-64F0-43E7-9651-173DC8A165B7.jpeg

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Approximately 1 minute in you’ll see said incident.
Was that the lady that was waving a long stick about above the passing officers heads.

You'll notice the picture is edited missing a section out. Wonder what happened there.

Watch it all again, every clip in the videos show police officers responding in force to attacks on them first.
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Was that the lady that was waving a long stick about above the passing officers heads.

You'll notice the picture is edited missing a section out. Wonder what happened there.

Watch it all again, every clip in the videos show police officers responding in force to attacks on them first.


I’m referring to the woman in the video.
I have the full video which looks unedited and from a different angle. She was no threat to the police but yet gets pushed to the ground and what looks like punched in the stomach. Or was that edited?
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I’m referring to the woman in the video.
I have the full video which looks unedited and from a different angle. She was no threat to the police but yet gets pushed to the ground and what looks like punched in the stomach. Or was that edited?
I take it you didn't see the police getting assaulted as they passed the lady who was I now believe waving a selfie stick about?

The same stick, potential weapon the officers are removing from her after they were assaulted.
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4 hours ago, Russian Saint said:

 


I don’t know why the police had to turn up in riot gear. This was nothing like the Brexit or BLM protests, there were families there, general Joe public, left, right, black, white, old and young. I didn’t see a hoard of thugs in any of the footage that I’ve seen. Granted, there will be some idiots in amongst them.
Another video was of a very well spoken 59 year old man that had been punched in the face by a police officer. The guy was with two females that I suspect were his wife and daughter.

 

Oh come on really?

I'm no apologist for the police but that video I posted showed the reason clearly enough.

With any of these sorts of large scale demonstrations you always get a bunch of thugs tagging along looking for a fight and you need your police suitably protected when they do.

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3 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

It’s chicken or egg stuff, catch 22, the stuff you listed is the symptoms, it’s not the cause. Increase living standards for everyone and provide a decent early intervention for children and these symptoms will slowly disappear over time.

 

In fairness you make a great point there and I will concede that.

I would also agree that it's the kids who need the targetted and early intervention.

I still think adults have to accept personal responsibility though. Once you're beyond a certain age you can't be blaming childhood poverty anymore.

Childhood poverty can certainly get a person into these situations I describe but it's not the reason they stay in those situations as functioning adults. I think allowing any adult to use their childhood as an excuse for their behaviour is dangerous for them because it's a disincentive to change. It somehow suggests to them that it's OK to continue and that there's nothing they can now do to change. We shouldn't be giving people a crutch to blame for their personal decisions.

Edited by oaksoft
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4 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

To be honest I did used to have this attitude also, however the evidence around the impact of adverse childhood events (ACEs) is compelling. I have never met anyone who when asked what they wanted to be when they grow up is a drug addict, alcoholic or morbidly obese. I have attached a video which I watched for the first time several years ago, it changed my perspective. 
 

 

I would struggle to accept that an adult can use "I chain smoke, drink like a fish and deep fry everything because I was poor as a kid" as a general excuse for these sort of life decisions.

ETA. I'm not commenting on situations like childhood abuse, rape or anything else like that in these posts. Those are completely different things to the sort of common background experience of poverty that I'm talking about.

With the sort of person I'm talking about, you'll find them comfort eating drinking and smoking through loneliness, a broken heart, boredom, frustrated dreams and ambitions, or some other common garden ailment from life's garden of poison. What you are describing via abusive childhoods will be a very small proportion of people.

Edited by oaksoft
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1 hour ago, Russian Saint said:

 


I’m referring to the woman in the video.
I have the full video which looks unedited and from a different angle. She was no threat to the police but yet gets pushed to the ground and what looks like punched in the stomach. Or was that edited?

 

OK but you're asking us to comment on a full unedited film which only you have seen.

I suspect she probably tried to hit a police officer with her stick but without seeing the full thing it's hard to say. There certainly isn't enough in those two videos to condemn the police.

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13 hours ago, Russian Saint said:

I don’t know why the police had to turn up in riot gear. This was nothing like the Brexit or BLM protests, there were families there, general Joe public, left, right, black, white, old and young. I didn’t see a hoard of thugs in any of the footage that I’ve seen. Granted, there will be some idiots in amongst them.
Another video was of a very well spoken 59 year old man that had been punched in the face by a police officer. The guy was with two females that I suspect were his wife and daughter.

 

I think it looks  just like the BLM protests.

 

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We're all in it together - hic!

Quote

Minister says bars in parliament should not be exempt from 10pm closing time

According to a Times story (paywall) by Esther Webber, the bars in parliament are exempt from the rule saying pubs in England must stop selling alcohol at 10pm. She explains:

Facilities serving alcohol on the parliamentary estate are understood to be exempt from the earlier closing time on the basis that they fall under the description of “a workplace canteen”.

:offtopicPlace I used to work in down south used to have a licensed bar for lunchtime 12noon-2:30pm - ah those afternoon experiments.:offtopic

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