Bud the Baker Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 10 hours ago, stlucifer said: So even your stats show we are nowhere near the levels reached early in the campaign when testing was in its infancy. More proof if proof was needed the current restrictions are overkill. Many ails kill far more. I never said the situation was as bad as March/April. I am saying that Number of cases recorded Hospitalizations due to the virus Deaths due to the virus Are all currently on the rise, given this what current restrictions do you think are overkill? ******************* Although I am in favour of masks in public transport/shops I have also listed some of the current measures that I feel were foreseeable mistakes (Opening Halls of Residence, certainly at full capacity) or unlikely to be well heeded (the10pm curfew). As for “many ails kill far more” I’d say that is complacent and unproveable going into our first Covid winter, that these Covid deaths will be in addition to all our other "ails" and as I have said on many occasions in this thread my inclination is to err on the side of caution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 10 hours ago, oaksoft said: 2428 is less than 2 people per hospital across the UK. And we've shut down most of the country for that. Do you genuinely that is a proportionate response? I think saying that most of the country is shut down at present is an exaggeration, however look at the trend – the number of people hospitalized with Covid is about 3 times what it was a month ago and rising. This as we enter winter when we know the NHSs capacity will be tested. So yeah, I’m still broadly in favour of the current restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) Shockerooney! Quote Many people have been hoping that when a vaccine becomes available, that will be the wonder development that allows life to return to normal. But the FT has been speaking to Kate Bingham, head of the government’s UK vaccine taskforce, and she said that if or when a vaccine does become available, less than half the population is likely to get it. In their story (paywall) Anna Gross and Jasmine Cameron-Chileshe report: Kate Bingham told the Financial Times that vaccinating everyone in the country was “not going to happen”, adding: “We just need to vaccinate everyone at risk” ... Ms Bingham said the government was aiming to vaccinate about 30m people, compared with a UK population of about 67m, if a successful vaccine against Covid-19 was found. “People keep talking about ‘time to vaccinate the whole population’, but that is misguided,” she said. “There’s going to be no vaccination of people under 18. It’s an adult-only vaccine, for people over 50, focusing on health workers and carehome workers and the vulnerable” ... Ms Bingham said vaccination policy would be aimed at those “most at risk” and noted that vaccinating healthy people, who are much less likely to have severe outcomes from Covid-19, “could cause them some freak harm”, potentially tipping the scales in terms of the risk-benefit analysis. To me this seems to be endorsing anti-vaxxers to an extent, if your saying over half the population might be better off without getting the vaccine then how many eligible gammon types will say it's not for me? Edited October 5, 2020 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Shockerooney! To me this seems to be endorsing anti-vaxxers to an extent, if your saying over half the population might be better off without getting the vaccine then how many gammon types will say it's not for me? No way is that endorsing the anti-vac lobby, no medicine is without risk and the ultra-common "flu-like symptoms" that arise from most vaccines can make someone sick-ish for a day. No need to makr loe- tisk hrslty people ill when they are unlikely to be bafly affected by the virus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said: I think saying that most of the country is shut down at present is an exaggeration, however look at the trend – the number of people hospitalized with Covid is about 3 times what it was a month ago and rising. This as we enter winter when we know the NHSs capacity will be tested. So yeah, I’m still broadly in favour of the current restrictions. But 3 times almost zero is still almost zero. It's just 2 people per hospital in the UK. Libraries, cinemas, theatres, football stadia, doctors surgeries, dentists surgeries, pubs, restauarants, universities, colleges, nightclubs, soft play centres..... We can argue over the word "most" but what is happening right now is catastrophic. And for just 2 hospitalisations due to covid per hospital in the UK. Edited October 5, 2020 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, beyond our ken said: No way is that endorsing the anti-vac lobby, no medicine is without risk and the ultra-common "flu-like symptoms" that arise from most vaccines can make someone sick-ish for a day. No need to makr loe- tisk hrslty people ill when they are unlikely to be bafly affected by the virus "Sickish for a day" is different to the "some freak harm" that Ms. Bingham seems prepared to accept - I'd say bringing in a risky vaccine would be counterproductive and would rather wait until a safe(ish) vaccine that wasn't considered to be potentially more harmful than beneficial to over 50% of the population was available. A vaccine with that level of efficacy will be a hard sell to many of it's target audience of which I am one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 32 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Shockerooney! To me this seems to be endorsing anti-vaxxers to an extent, if your saying over half the population might be better off without getting the vaccine then how many eligible gammon types will say it's not for me? It's irrelevant. People should be and will be free to make these decisions for themselves. The anti-vaxxer thing was about preventing their kids from being protected from measles and was a different thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: It's irrelevant. People should be and will be free to make these decisions for themselves. The anti-vaxxer thing was about preventing their kids from being protected from measles and was a different thing. I agree you're correct, however I still reckon introducing a vaccine as risky as Ms. Bingham seems prepared to accept seems counterproductive to me or perhaps I'm just reaching the gammon "tipping point" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: I agree you're correct, however I still reckon introducing a vaccine as risky as Ms. Bingham seems prepared to accept seems counterproductive to me or perhaps I'm just reaching the gammon "tipping point" "Gammon tipping point". That's a great line right there. 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 6 hours ago, Cookie Monster said: Oh to be a teenager again. I said 1992, not 1962. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 Looks like fake science to me. Where is the evidence that a mask has saved 1 life ? Where is the evidence that anti-social distancing saved a single life ? Where is the evidence that house arrest of healthy individuals saved one life ? You are supposed to believe the narrative and obviously you are one of their finest parishoners(N=987). A public person who thinks for themselves and does not follow their narrative is their biggest fear. https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/feet-clay-and-clapping-nhs Want some tin foil, I bought some especially to hand out to poor delusional folk. [emoji23] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 FORFUXSAKE They jailed the welders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 Wee Nicky getting ready to announce changes today. FFS, if she apologises one more fecking time then continues to fcuk things up I'll squeeeeeem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 So, the rise in cases has accelerated for around 4-6 weeks yet the number of deaths is still low, actually dropping over the last few days. Meanwhile business's continue to go bust, redundancies rise and people can't have contact with loved one's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 (edited) @faraway saint Good graph. but the 7 day moving average would be more relevant cos we established back in May/June the government's stattos don't work at the weekend and that statements based on daily figures are useless. Quote Respiratory Consultant Dr Sophie Fletcher says units are better prepared this time around, with treatments developed over the past six months ready for new Covid-19 patients. "We've now got two treatments that we can offer patients when they arrive with Covid," she says. "Namely remdesivir and dexamethasone - that we know work in terms of reducing the duration of the illness and in terms of reducing the chances of them requiring intensive care. https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-30/nhs-staff-on-a-covid-second-wave-we-are-mentally-prepared There really is no room for complacency based on deaths not following the same dramatic increase as happened back in April/May. Edited October 6, 2020 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 43 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: @faraway saint Good graph. but the 7 day moving average would be more relevant cos we established back in May/June the government's stattos don't work at the weekend and that statements based on daily figures are useless. https://www.itv.com/news/2020-09-30/nhs-staff-on-a-covid-second-wave-we-are-mentally-prepared There really is no room for complacency based on deaths not following the same dramatic increase as happened back in April/May. Big wow, the numbers are LOW. Complacency? What do YOU suggest we do? Continue to kill business's, lap up people being redundant, and all the grief that could come from that never mind the issues of people not being able to see family? Wee Nicky just announced 25 people are in intensive care, 2 deaths I think..................................requiring more fecking measures? Remember people criticising Sweden for having very few restrictions, here's the 7 day rolling average, how'd you like them numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 I have no gripe with people questioning the efficacy of Covid restrictions and whether the balance is proportionate to the damage being done to people's wellbeing through redundancy or the general economic uncertainty. I've pointed out a couple of examples where I think a lack of foresight have made the situation worse. All I'm doing is pointing out is that some of your arguments are weak. I'm broadly in favour of the current Covid restrictions and as ever my inclination would be to err on the side of caution. ********************* Moving slightly off-topic the company I work for is probably going to sold to new owners within the next coupla months, it'll be the third time I've been TUPEd since I joined on November 15 2000 - the previous two changes were accompanied by closures so in a few months I may have to change my username, there are precious few secure jobs these days. Who knows, by this time next year, I might even be as gammon as you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: I have no gripe with people questioning the efficacy of Covid restrictions and whether the balance is proportionate to the damage being done to people's wellbeing through redundancy or the general economic uncertainty. I've pointed out a couple of examples where I think a lack of foresight have made the situation worse. All I'm doing is pointing out is that some of your arguments are weak. I'm broadly in favour of the current Covid restrictions and as ever my inclination would be to err on the side of caution. ********************* Moving slightly off-topic the company I work for is probably going to sold to new owners within the next coupla months, it'll be the third time I've been TUPEd since I joined on November 15 2000 - the previous two changes were accompanied by closures so in a few months I may have to change my username, there are precious few secure jobs these days. Who knows, by this time next year, I might even be as gammon as you! Whereas your "arguments" are airy fairy with nothing definitive, which gives you a get out of jail free card. Fingers crossed for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted October 6, 2020 Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Fingers crossed for the future. Yeah, had I known I might not have done my Christmas shopping so early - as @oaksoft will no doubt say "hell mend me"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2020 17 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Yeah, had I known I might not have done my Christmas shopping so early - as @oaksoft will no doubt say "hell mend me"! Hope you've got the receipts. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 On 10/5/2020 at 8:22 PM, theknickerwetter said: Looks like fake science to me. Where is the evidence that a mask has saved 1 life ? Where is the evidence that anti-social distancing saved a single life ? Where is the evidence that house arrest of healthy individuals saved one life ? You are supposed to believe the narrative and obviously you are one of their finest parishoners(N=987). A public person who thinks for themselves and does not follow their narrative is their biggest fear. https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/feet-clay-and-clapping-nhs About time the adults took back control..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 On 10/5/2020 at 12:43 AM, ALBIONSAINT said: Czechoslovakia going into lockdown again, Paris and Madrid both in lockdown and cases increasing in southern Italy. I can see a short lockdown coming our way soon. Czech Republic never had a real first wave, cases were never above 500 until early September. Their numbers are strange, bucking the trend, almost reversing most countries who had it bad but are now managing the virus. Paris and Madrid is like quoting Leeds and Manchester, choosing a small area to prove a point. The bigger picture in France is the deaths are still very low, averaging under 70 from a country of 65m, similar to the UK. Spain is now well past the case numbers they had back in March/April yet still averaging just over 100 deaths. Italy, well......................cases are roughly half the early months and deaths are so low I won't even mention them. The UK like Spain, are now well above the cases per day but the deaths are still averaging just over 50 from numbers over 900. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) A doctor on BBC news, who works in Kilmarnock, talking about hospital admission, actually said "where we are just now is not the height of the pandemic UNFORTUNATELY" He's another of the 2-3 weeks brigade, "in 2-3 weeks we may be at the height of the pandemic". These clowns should not be allowed to speak in public. He also said "in March/April we were preparing for the Apocalypse" Edited October 7, 2020 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) More experts.................and academics..................and the public. Herd immunity call backed by British academics People who are less vulnerable to the effects of Covid-19 should be allowed to return to normal life, a group of British experts has said. A new declaration, which is earning thousands of signatures from medical professionals, academics and the general public, calls for a herd immunity approach to tackling the Covid-19 pandemic while protecting the most vulnerable populations. Academics from the universities of Oxford, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Cambridge, Sussex, York, St George’s University of London, Strathclyde, Leicester, Queen Mary University of London and the University of East Anglia are among experts from around the world who have signed the declaration. Edited October 7, 2020 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 7, 2020 Report Share Posted October 7, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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