Jump to content

Coronavirus


faraway saint

Recommended Posts


Interesting choice of wording by Bojo on the "very high" scale of the new restrictions. "Areas where the NHS could soon be under unbearable pressure" This is despite heavy restrictions already being in place the country over.

If we were to follow the Oaksters guidance and remove "all" restrictions, that is very likely the scenario we would have in practically every area of the UK when we look at case rises despite the restrictions. What a sh** show that would be! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

It probably won't be enough but remember "we're all in it together".

What's the alternative - mega-austerity falling on the poorest, most vulnerable members of society? State benefits are increasingly hard to get, the threat of sanctions is ever present (even in Covid times) and don't allow for a life of luxury - I read a quote from an ex-BA pilot who was shocked to find out that Income Support was so Meagre.

This could have been a chance to take a step back and establish new priorities I fear that by 2024 most of us will be looking out for No. 1. I still hope that a radical Green/Red agenda can be established although that is unlikely with SKS as Labour leader.

**************

I posted this on the EoC thread but it relevant to what we're talking about here

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34439965

Interesting to see Conservative MP Liam Fox (a Cabinet Member barely a year ago) at the table so it's not just fringe politics, 

I particularly liked their argument that

....and all this in a country whose government was boasting that it was the fifth richest country in the world not so long ago.

I've never cared for or believed in political soundbites so never get flustered by things like "we're all in it together".

The only alternative as far as I can see to avoid the things you are talking about is exactly what I suggested earlier - protect those who want protecting via shielding and get everyone else back to work before the economy completely disintegrates and millions end up on the dole.

The solution to poverty lies in the hands of the individual. It's pretty much always been that way and probably always will be that way. Our country (UK) consistently votes that way too - it's been more than 40 years since we last had anything other than a centrist or right wing government. Governments can of course help, but any capable person sitting around waiting for others to make their lives easier will be sorely disappointed.

I'm in agreement with you about Liam Fox and those others. I put Bazil in that category as well. It's very easy to trivialise the difficulties people face when they have no money and that's especially true when those mouthing off have no financial issues of their own to worry about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Why will the money need to be payed back in a year - austerity after the 2008 collapse ran until 2019 so 11 years or 6.33% per year and it needn't even be that great if we imposed windfall taxes on the companies who have done well from the virus (I read the Tesco Chairman is on a mega-bonus :whistle ) introduced a fairer tax system on the hi-tech giants and generally tightened up on tax avoidance.

Or was "we're all in it together" just a meaningless slogan?

Covid is costing somewhere around £400 bn per year. That's on top of our crushing debt which is currently at nearly 86% of GDP. We either pay this off or we have to cut more services to cope with the repayments. We can't keep adding that sort of debt to the pile year after year. Those ultra low interest rates will go up at some stage well before we pay this debt off.

My post was in response to Bazil's hilarious suggestion that we can keep everything shut and continue to rack up annual debts into the hundreds of billions of pounds year after year while the rest of us pray for a magic cure from the Land of Unicorn Pharmaceutical Company.

Why do you keep asking me about "we're all in it together"? I couldn't care less about slogans. Never have done. :P

Edited by oaksoft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

:offtopic On a more personal note I saved myself 16.45p today by noticing that Asda's special offer on the 550g pack of Bisto Gravy (Best by Far) was actually 4.7p/100g dearer than the 350g tub! :offtopic

You'd have saved even more if you'd bought it at Aldi. :P

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I'm in agreement with you about Liam Fox and those others. I put Bazil in that category as well. It's very easy to trivialise the difficulties people face when they have no money and that's especially true when those mouthing off have no financial issues of their own to worry about.

You can keep saying this, it's factual that not everyone is like you who only cares about the money in his pocket. You've shown time and time again you only care about how you're doing financially, don't paint me with that selfish brush as I don't have that mindset. You don't need to believe it but if I lost my job or was severely impacted financially, I still wouldn't see up to 1 in 20 over 70s as expendable to protect an already unsustainable economic model. 

As for your "let's get everyone out working and shield the vulnerable" approach. It's laughable, if we are struggling to do it with the measures in place now, what chance have we got with "all" measures lifted? You are embarrassing yourself with your ignorance on this. 

19 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

My post was in response to Bazil's hilarious suggestion that we can keep everything shut and continue to rack up annual debts into the hundreds of billions of pounds year after year while the rest of us pray for a magic cure from the Land of Unicorn Pharmaceutical Company.

everything isn't shut, in fact some businesses have thrived during this, we were already racking up annual debt before covid19 and likely in any world after it. The political decisions made by the UK for a long-time have been worrying to say the least.

We clearly don't need to take the nuclear option right now that you're desperate for. I can only imagine your desperation is linked to concerns regarding your own working life & finances (again we know that's your only concern).

If a vaccine/ cure doesn't come, decisions will have to be made, but they don't need to be made in October 2020 ffs.  

Edited by bazil85
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Covid is costing somewhere around £400 bn per year. That's on top of our crushing debt which is currently at nearly 86% of GDP. We either pay this off or we have to cut more services to cope with the repayments. We can't keep adding that sort of debt to the pile year after year. Those ultra low interest rates will go up at some stage well before we pay this debt off.

My post was in response to Bazil's hilarious suggestion that we can keep everything shut and continue to rack up annual debts into the hundreds of billions of pounds year after year while the rest of us pray for a magic cure from the Land of Unicorn Pharmaceutical Company.

Why do you keep asking me about "we're all in it together"? I couldn't care less about slogans. Never have done. :P

I mostly agree but I think that an alternative taxation agenda is possible and more importantly was promised, or at least implied, by the continuous use of the slogan at the start of the pandemic - it's a pity, from my POV, that the current lot are safely ensconced at Westminster with an 80 seat majority until 2024.

  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

I mostly agree but I think that an alternative taxation agenda is possible and more importantly was promised, or at least implied, by the continuous use of the slogan at the start of the pandemic - it's a pity, from my POV, that the current lot are safely ensconced at Westminster with an 80 seat majority until 2024.

  

Think it's pretty clear Oaks has very far right political views. He's no doubt delighted with the Tory majority. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cases continue to rise, but is should be noted the UK are testing more than any other European country bar Russia.

Strangely, despite us being told there's a 3 week lag between cases rising and seeing a similar rise in deaths it's still not even close to happening.

Cases have been rising for weeks, other countries are managing the virus with minimum restrictions yet we are seeing our day to day life continue to be impacted by decisions that make less and less sense by the week.

So, we continue to damage the economy on an unseen scale for a very low amount of fatalities.

Ach well, it's ok, if you are still in work.

image.png.b5bc5b01fba95088ad14e48cff613848.png

image.png.74a5e35b6b3a9c6d65b4ff97591e900b.png

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Why will the money need to be payed back in a year - austerity after the 2008 collapse ran until 2019 so 11 years or 6.33% per year and it needn't even be that great if we imposed windfall taxes on the companies who have done well from the virus (I read the Tesco Chairman is on a mega-bonus :whistle ) introduced a fairer tax system on the hi-tech giants and generally tightened up on tax avoidance.

Or was "we're all in it together" just a meaningless slogan?

Unless you believe in the tooth fairy you'd be foolish to believe this.

Every civilisation has, since time began, has it's rich and poor, hankering after some utopia is pointless, it doesn't, and never will, exist.

Your continual bleating about people that are rich is painful and amusing at the same time.  

I'm sure some REALLY poor people might look at you and despise your trappings, planning to rob you of your hard earned Bisto. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some hospitals down south have now closed their paediatric wards, forcing ill or injured children to travel hundreds of miles for treatment. The reason? Hospitals are "preparing" in case they get an influx of Covid patients.

It appears lessons have still not been learned - obstructing treatment to those who are ill so that there's space for those who might get ill. You couldn't make it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

I mostly agree but I think that an alternative taxation agenda is possible and more importantly was promised, or at least implied, by the continuous use of the slogan at the start of the pandemic - it's a pity, from my POV, that the current lot are safely ensconced at Westminster with an 80 seat majority until 2024.

  

Actually you might be right about that bit in bold and I think it will come sooner rather than later.

The problem is that it still won't be anywhere near enough to either clear the covid debt each year or pay for the interest payment on any loans used to pay for it. Talk of getting nearly £200 billion per year from the assets of rich people is ridiculous. If these sums were so easy to get at, the last Labour government would have done so.

As you say, even if Labour do get in, we're looking at 2024 at the earliest and by then the die will have been cast. It's a terrible state of affairs and I can't see any other reasonable route out of this except for the one I've mentioned.

Edited by oaksoft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, bazil85 said:

 

As for your "let's get everyone out working and shield the vulnerable" approach. It's laughable, if we are struggling to do it with the measures in place now, what chance have we got with "all" measures lifted? You are embarrassing yourself with your ignorance on this. 

You are, kiddo!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some hospitals down south have now closed their paediatric wards, forcing ill or injured children to travel hundreds of miles for treatment. The reason? Hospitals are "preparing" in case they get an influx of Covid patients.
It appears lessons have still not been learned - obstructing treatment to those who are ill so that there's space for those who might get ill. You couldn't make it up.
I hadn't read of any such closures so I tried Google, nothing on there that I could see. You able to provide a link to said closures.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Unless you believe in the tooth fairy you'd be foolish to believe this.

Every civilisation has, since time began, has it's rich and poor, hankering after some utopia is pointless, it doesn't, and never will, exist.

Your continual bleating about people that are rich is painful and amusing at the same time.  

I'm sure some REALLY poor people might look at you and despise your trappings, planning to rob you of your hard earned Bisto. 

I never believed it, I'm just pointing out that the lie has been exposed.

Is it pointless hankering over a better society? I'd say we've progressed over the last 100 years, even the last 50 although there's been more pushback from the right. As ever it's a case of three steps forward and two steps back - that doesn't mean we should stop trying to push forward.

Again as I've said before no-one makes it on their own these days, the guys (&gals) that do make it are just those that are a bit smarter or quicker in seizing the opportunities that society offers, I happen to think that those that benefit most from society should pay back most - it's a simple philosophy.

If someone without food wants my Bisto they can have it, they can come into my country, share it's wealth as far as I'm concerned, I will never endorse policies that see people drown at sea, we still live in one of the richest countries in the world and I'd happily be poorer if there is a genuine redistribution of wealth. If the pandemic has shown anything it's that unless you live in a remote island like NZ you have to act as a society or watch it fall apart. 

Eat the rich and their lackeys in parliament and their private security forces 'cos if you don't, they'll just get richer at your expense and build bigger walls, even the Cap'n knew that - it's more than just an allegory. The alternative is to salivate & fret over your share of the pie, tug your forelock and close your eyes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

I never believed it, I'm just pointing out that the lie has been exposed.

Is it pointless hankering over a better society? I'd say we've progressed over the last 100 years, even the last 50 although there's been more pushback from the right. As ever it's a case of three steps forward and two steps back - that doesn't mean we should stop trying to push forward.

Again as I've said before no-one makes it on their own these days, the guys (&gals) that do make it are just those that are a bit smarter or quicker in seizing the opportunities that society offers, I happen to think that those that benefit most from society should pay back most - it's a simple philosophy.

If someone without food wants my Bisto they can have it, they can come into my country, share it's wealth as far as I'm concerned, I will never endorse policies that see people drown at sea, we still live in one of the richest countries in the world and I'd happily be poorer if there is a genuine redistribution of wealth. If the pandemic has shown anything it's that unless you live in a remote island like NZ you have to act as a society or watch it fall apart. 

Eat the rich and their lackeys in parliament and their private security forces 'cos if you don't, they'll just get richer at your expense and build bigger walls, even the Cap'n knew that - it's more than just an allegory. The alternative is to salivate & fret over your share of the pie, tug your forelock and close your eyes.

I can't think of a single person who is getting richer at my expense. Who is getting richer at your expense?

There is another alternative, which is to stop worrying about what other people have and go about enjoying your own life and exploring your own potential.

BTW, it looks like you were right about the government trying to pay off the covid bill over a period of time.

Looks very much like the first 6 months is going to take a generation of tax and spend restrictions to pay off even with £40bn worth of tax rises. Imagine what 3 years or more of this will do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54509262

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, smcc said:

It appears that the truth is that all of the hospital's intensive care beds are full. No mention of total number of Covid cases in the hospital.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-10-12/covid-inside-blackpool-victoria-hospital-where-intensive-care-unit-is-at-full-capacity

5 days ago there were 3 covid patients in the ICU and 38 covid patients overall.

https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/health/coronavirus/significant-worsening-number-covid-patients-hospital-fylde-coast-shoots-seven-fold-just-two-weeks-2996640

Yesterday there were apparently 8 in ICU at the same hospital (Daily Mail, I know).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8832933/Coronavirus-intensive-care-units-breaking-point-wards-up.html

The Vic is part of the Blackpool Teaching Hospitals I think and they talk about having 13 ICU beds across two wards so 8 sounds about right.

Edited by oaksoft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, oaksoft said:

I can't think of a single person who is getting richer at my expense. Who is getting richer at your expense?

There is another alternative, which is to stop worrying about what other people have and go about enjoying your own life and exploring your own potential.

BTW, it looks like you were right about the government trying to pay off the covid bill over a period of time.

Looks very much like the first 6 months is going to take a generation of tax and spend restrictions to pay off even with £40bn worth of tax rises. Imagine what 3 years or more of this will do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54509262

At my expense - government cronies getting lucrative contracts for which they seem to have no relevant experience, our ex-richest citizen fucking off to the tax haven of Monaco, ex-Brexit supporter James Dyson moving his company headquarters to the tax haven of Singapore. I will say it yet again these are people who have benefited from the UK but who are now looking to minimize what they give back. Throw in Richard Branson who after being a tax exile for 14 years was suddenly looking for a handout this year - these are people who typically state it's not about money until it is.

I'll go back to a pre-WW2 proposal over executive pay - that the pay for CEOs should be restricted to a factor of 10 times the companies lowest paid employees.

As for repaying the Covid bill over a period of thyme, we're all Keynsians now.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

At my expense - government cronies getting lucrative contracts for which they seem to have no relevant experience, our ex-richest citizen fucking off to the tax haven of Monaco, ex-Brexit supporter James Dyson moving his company headquarters to the tax haven of Singapore. I will say it yet again these are people who have benefited from the UK but who are now looking to minimize what they give back. Throw in Richard Branson who after being a tax exile for 14 years was suddenly looking for a handout this year - these are people who typically state it's not about money until it is.

I'll go back to a pre-WW2 proposal over executive pay - that the pay for CEOs should be restricted to a factor of 10 times the companies lowest paid employees.

As for repaying the Covid bill over a period of thyme, we're all Keynsians now.

 

And how much has that first bit in bold cost you personally?

Did Branson get his handout?

Our biggest companies are multi-nationals. How are you going to enforce a CEO wage cap? You'll simply encourage more companies to setup head offices in other countries to avoid your new law.

There are no restrictions on how high any other worker gets paid. Why obsess over the single person at the top?

Don't know what you mean by Keynesian but paying the covid bill "pver a period of thyme" sounds like "sage" advice. Oh yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...