Coronavirus

[bazil85]

7 minutes ago, Yflab said:

Unlike you Sybil I don’t have all day and I’m retired!

cop-out. 👍

[oaksoft]

6 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Police Scotland broke up about 300 house parties last month.

That's just the ones they knew about. 

Aye, compliance by the majority but it only takes an ever growing minority to feck it up for us all. 

It can't just be that for two reasons.

1) This second wave of infections is happening across the world.

2) This second wave is bigger in terms of infections than the first wave when everyone was mingling with each other. Now only a fraction of the population are doing that.

Somehow the virus has spread somewhere and has re-emerged. IMO it's been hiding on all manner of surfaces.

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

they're a mitigation not a solution, if none of these things worked at all do you not think the near universal scientific consensus would be not to do it? You make these wild assumptions when you don't have the knowledge to back it. 

Stop wittering and answer the very simple question:

If masks are effective, why are we seeing well above 80-90% compliance and yet new infections are going through the roof in most of Europe?

[oaksoft]

5 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

10 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Yes, it's about the school meals issue.
I think your comment about problem households is very persuasive because for the life of me I can't fathom out how a lack of money itself can possibly be causing such a massive problem. A few thousand cases maybe, but not millions of cases.
I agree with that last sentence. Punishing kids for their parents problems is just unforgiveable in my opinion.

The millions is kids living with addicted parents estimated to be between 1.2 and 1.8m in the UK last figs I saw. I would think the vast majority experiencing the issue fall into that category. The gambling category is exploding and unfortunately that is often unknown to authorities. People associated problem gambling with a father blowing the pay packet at the bookies but now it's just as likely to be a mother gambling on her mobile device via online bingo and casino sites.

I didn't know about the scale of this.

Maybe you've nailed what the root problem is then.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

You really do hate me eh? You're lashing out all over the place... I can hardly even remember engaging with you as well. 🤷‍♂️

Seriously, how many times and how many posters are you going to use this line on before you realise your attitude might be the problem?

[bazil85]

9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Stop wittering and answer the very simple question:

If masks are effective, why are we seeing well above 80-90% compliance and yet new infections are going through the roof in most of Europe?

I already have, they are a mitigating factor, they are not designed to completely stop the spread. Without masks and social distancing (and many other mitigates) there is a view that infection rates would likely be far higher. 

You again make an assumption that you know better than the people giving this guidance. Is it not strange to you that mask wearing is being taken up in 100s of countries globally if it just completely doesn't work? 

[oaksoft]

1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

I already have, they are a mitigating factor, they are not designed to completely stop the spread. Without masks and social distancing (and many other mitigates) there is a view that infection rates would likely be far higher. 

That is absolute horse shit and you know it.

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

Seriously, how many times and how many posters are you going to use this line on before you realise your attitude might be the problem?

I don't think I have ever once said I don't remember ever engaging with a poster. 

My attitude is not the problem, there is a small number of old guard posters that I just get their back up for whatever reason. In this instance Yflab has kicked off because I interpreted his point on councils saving money by having unemployed doing jobs as... Well as unemployed people doing council jobs and saving the council money.

I'm baffled why that annoyed him tbh, I even asked if I had misinterpreted. I have zero doubt that had I made the same point under a different username, he wouldn't have acted in the same way. 

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

That is absolute horse shit and you know it.

It absolutely is not, wear your mask, socially distance, suck it up. 

[jaybee]

2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

If you want to discuss Independence or Brexit I'd prefer to do it on the appropriate thread but what "self inflicted problems" and if Westminster is really to busy to deal with these "self inflicted problems" then perhaps they should give us Independence - I cannot see any relevance in your first para although I do detect the usual gammon whinging - you deserve to be slated for it.

As for the second wave getting out of hand I place the "bulk of the blame" on the government and have given at least half-a-dozen reasons for this, all of which you've ignored -  very little of what has gone wrong is down to hindsight. I also blame people who fail to follow common sense procedures to but to a lesser extent, the malaise starts at the top & BJ is no Harry Truman, passing the buck around like it was a hot potato - oh and that is one primo mixed metaphor, you'll not see a better one today! 

If you have no idea what "your fellow gammons" means then you must be Rip Van jaybee and I can see clearly now the rain has gone that you really, really, don't care.

I was simply using Brexit as an example to explain that at least the man appears to be doing what he and what his role as PM dictates that he should do with regard to the democratic wishes of those who elected him and his party.  On the other hand, we have the wee lassie NS, who in direct contradiction of a referendum which supported staying in the UK is fighting tooth and nail to stay with Europe,  in effect giving the finger to both BJ, England in general and the majority of Scots who voted to stay,  even though her role should  also mandate that she carry out the wishes of the people and of the UK government to whom both she and Scotland are subordinate.  As for Independence, you had your 'once in a generation' vote and choose to stay and my feeling is there is no way you will be given the opportunity of another anytime soon.  Self inflicted problems refers to the fact that both Scotland and Wales as far as Covid 19 is concerned are in charge of their own restrictions ergo any issues you have are either the fault of NS; or more likely people doing what people do irrespective of rules.  My understanding is Scotland, being generally much more rural than down south is suffering less and of course given that the population of London is just under 9 million and all of Scotland is only 5.5 million, then the logistics of managing 9 million in one city have to be more challenging than that which NS has to deal with and Covid 19 wise that has to be a big factor.

Regarding blame, I can see where you are coming from re ministers who say one thing and do the other; but really; am I to believe that  officialdom saying this many people mixing is ok and wear a / don't wear a face mask, eat out / don't eat out, work / don't work, keep a distance etc is  going to be the main factor in spreading the virus?  I say again your having a giraffe, personally I credit most people with a deal more common sense than clearly you do.  I fall within the 'at risk' category and behave accordingly, I believe a lot of younger people don't think the virus is such an issue for them and they are possibly correct, however they can still pass it along and my feeling is that, that is how a fair amount of transmission is happening. plus parties and illegal mass gathering of which there have been many.

 

[Bud the Baker]

5 minutes ago, jaybee said:

I was simply using Brexit as an example to explain that at least the man appears to be doing what he and what his role as PM dictates that he should do with regard to the democratic wishes of those who elected him and his party.  On the other hand, we have the wee lassie NS, who in direct contradiction of a referendum which supported staying in the UK is fighting tooth and nail to stay with Europe,  in effect giving the finger to both BJ, England in general and the majority of Scots who voted to stay,  even though her role should  also mandate that she carry out the wishes of the people and of the UK government to whom both she and Scotland are subordinate.  As for Independence, you had your 'once in a generation' vote and choose to stay and my feeling is there is no way you will be given the opportunity of another anytime soon. 

Self inflicted problems refers to the fact that both Scotland and Wales as far as Covid 19 is concerned are in charge of their own restrictions ergo any issues you have are either the fault of NS; or more likely people doing what people do irrespective of rules.  My understanding is Scotland, being generally much more rural than down south is suffering less and of course given that the population of London is just under 9 million and all of Scotland is only 5.5 million, then the logistics of managing 9 million in one city have to be more challenging than that which NS has to deal with and Covid 19 wise that has to be a big factor.

Regarding blame, I can see where you are coming from re ministers who say one thing and do the other; but really; am I to believe that  officialdom saying this many people mixing is ok and wear a / don't wear a face mask, eat out / don't eat out, work / don't work, keep a distance etc is  going to be the main factor in spreading the virus?  I say again your having a giraffe, personally I credit most people with a deal more common sense than clearly you do.  I fall within the 'at risk' category and behave accordingly, I believe a lot of younger people don't think the virus is such an issue for them and they are possibly correct, however they can still pass it along and my feeling is that, that is how a fair amount of transmission is happening. plus parties and illegal mass gathering of which there have been many.

 

Split the first para because it is irrelevant to what we're discussing - Is there blame and to whom should it be attributed. Having said that it is disappointing to hear the "once in a generation" quote being used out of context again - it was never a guarantee and the circumstances in which the issue would be revisited (Brexit) were clearly laid out by the SNP in their 2015 manifesto.

*******************

I've not really tried to defend "wee Nicola Sturgeon" over the pandemic although her hands are partially tied by the funding Westminster allows she's made many of the same mistakes that BJ has. Your argument  that Scotland is subordinate to England and then that NS is entirely responsible is one I find contradictory also while Scotland is more rural than England the bulk of the population live in the Central Belt and cities like Aberdeen & Dundee, I think if you look at the map of current restrictions you'll find it pretty similar both sides of the border - urban areas high. rural areas low. Conditions where I live & work are far removed from the Brigadoon. 

The main difference in my opinion is the seriousness with which NS has treated the country compared to BJ maintaining daily briefings while the Unionist parties complained to limit them being televised just before the second wave of the virus started - it's clear to me who's politicising the issue. In contrast BJ was telling us to get down the pub and roping in Chancellor Rishi Sunak into stunts like delivering meals with no gloves on during the "Eat Out to Help Out" campaign. Just today you've got NI, Scotland and Wales advising against going out on Halloween while England are saying it's OK in Tier 1 & 2 areas.

********************

I've never tried to absolve the general public from their share of the blame but as I've said many, too many, times now the buck stops at the top and BJ, Westminster and the devolved governments must bear "the bulk of the blame" in that order or maybe you're correct and that's an outdated concept now.

[Slarti]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

That is absolute horse shit and you know it.

It's not.  There is "a view", it's his.  Doesn't mean it's right but it is a view.

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

So, taking 50,000 being the figure now, well not really but I'll play along, and splitting your number to be 90,000 that equates to just over 500 EVERY day for the next 78 days. 

Jeezo. 😂

Did he really just say you don't "know" in that post you quoted???  FFS, that's what everyone has been trying to tell him (that he doesn't "know") even though he has been spouting various personal opinions, refusing to provide sufficient evidence to back up his claims, yet still claiming them as "fact" while basically saying "if you can't prove me wrong, that means I'm right".

 

It must be a deliberate wind up, I don't believe anybody can be that lacking in self-awareness.

 

[Tommy]

12 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If masks and social distancing worked, why are we seeing an exponential rise in cases after months of compliance by the vast majority of the population?

I blame the football players  

Note how they celebrate a goal now, and compare it to when the games started back up.

Giving our lack of goals our players must be catching it a different way  

 

[antrin]

5 hours ago, Yflab said:

Hey basil
Do you ever do any work during the day at the council?

 

5 hours ago, bazil85 said:

No I don't work for the council as I told you. Is this supposed to be some sort of attempt at a slagging? Why do you hate council workers? 

I wouldn’t put words in Yflab’s mouth, but I’d assume that he thought ( as we all do) that you were employed by the CN-KAE.

(Council for Not-Knowing Arses from Elbows).

Edited October 28, 2020 by antrin

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, antrin said:

 

I wouldn’t put words in Yflab’s mouth, but I’d assume that he thought ( as we all do) that you were employed by the CN-KAE.

(Council for Not-Knowing Arses from Elbows).

Found me out. 

[bazil85]

3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

So, taking 50,000 being the figure now, well not really but I'll play along, and splitting your number to be 90,000 that equates to just over 500 EVERY day for the next 78 days. 

Jeezo. 😂

Yep, wouldn't be surprised in the slightest. 

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, Slarti said:

It's not.  There is "a view", it's his.  Doesn't mean it's right but it is a view.

Did he really just say you don't "know" in that post you quoted???  FFS, that's what everyone has been trying to tell him (that he doesn't "know") even though he has been spouting various personal opinions, refusing to provide sufficient evidence to back up his claims, yet still claiming them as "fact" while basically saying "if you can't prove me wrong, that means I'm right".

 

It must be a deliberate wind up, I don't believe anybody can be that lacking in self-awareness.

 

Jesus let it go. There are some things about this we do know, like for example lockdown saved lives, as in there are people alive today that wouldn't be had there not been a lockdown. Your pedantic challenge of this point is still irrelevant and I won't change my mind on that no matter how long your bitterness goes on regarding it. 

There are things we can't know, for example how many deaths will be recorded at the end of 2020. 

Simple stuff.

[antrin]

11 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Jesus let it go. There are some things about this we do know, like for example lockdown saved lives, as in there are people alive today that wouldn't be had there not been a lockdown. Your pedantic challenge of this point is still irrelevant and I won't change my mind on that no matter how long your bitterness goes on regarding it. 

There are things we can't know, for example how many deaths will be recorded at the end of 2020. 

Simple stuff.

We can't yet KNOW that lockdown saved lives.  Too soon to be THAT sure.

the drop in deaths may be down to how the virus lives its  life.

or due to the fact (in the northern hemisphere) that Summer arrived and fewer people were contained indoors, in enclosed spaces.
or...

a host of other reasons.

Nobody knows yet.
except you.

 

To deploy YOUR go-to evasive tactic....

...how about you provide us with solid EVIDENCE that Lockdown saved lives?

 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by antrin

[Guest]

7 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Yes

Well u r totally deluded. U r extremely boring.

[jaybee]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Split the first para because it is irrelevant to what we're discussing - Is there blame and to whom should it be attributed. Having said that it is disappointing to hear the "once in a generation" quote being used out of context again - it was never a guarantee and the circumstances in which the issue would be revisited (Brexit) were clearly laid out by the SNP in their 2015 manifesto.

*******************

I've not really tried to defend "wee Nicola Sturgeon" over the pandemic although her hands are partially tied by the funding Westminster allows she's made many of the same mistakes that BJ has. Your argument  that Scotland is subordinate to England and then that NS is entirely responsible is one I find contradictory also while Scotland is more rural than England the bulk of the population live in the Central Belt and cities like Aberdeen & Dundee, I think if you look at the map of current restrictions you'll find it pretty similar both sides of the border - urban areas high. rural areas low. Conditions where I live & work are far removed from the Brigadoon. 

The main difference in my opinion is the seriousness with which NS has treated the country compared to BJ maintaining daily briefings while the Unionist parties complained to limit them being televised just before the second wave of the virus started - it's clear to me who's politicising the issue. In contrast BJ was telling us to get down the pub and roping in Chancellor Rishi Sunak into stunts like delivering meals with no gloves on during the "Eat Out to Help Out" campaign. Just today you've got NI, Scotland and Wales advising against going out on Halloween while England are saying it's OK in Tier 1 & 2 areas.

********************

I've never tried to absolve the general public from their share of the blame but as I've said many, too many, times now the buck stops at the top and BJ, Westminster and the devolved governments must bear "the bulk of the blame" in that order or maybe you're correct and that's an outdated concept now.

Have to agree with a lot of what you said  and I really am not trying to defend the indefensible; but, BJ has got 60 odd million chasing him for money, work, medicine, so on and so forth whereas............. well!  you too can count. The big problem is the country needs to be functioning, as much as possible and I think that's what they are trying to facilitate, not always correctly I agree, but I think it's a bit like being handed  a grenade that's about to explode, where do you throw it when your surrounded?  anyway I have no wish to rival War and Peace so I will call it quits for now methinks

[bazil85]

4 minutes ago, God of war said:

Well u r totally deluded. U r extremely boring.

Stop messaging me then.

[bazil85]

20 minutes ago, antrin said:

We can't yet KNOW that lockdown saved lives.  Too soon to be THAT sure.

the drop in deaths may be down to how the virus lives its  life.

or due to the fact (in the northern hemisphere) that Summer arrived and fewer people were contained indoors, in enclosed spaces.
or...

a host of other reasons.

Nobody knows yet.
except you.

 

To deploy YOUR go-to evasive tactic....

...how about you provide us with solid EVIDENCE that Lockdown saved lives?

 

 

This has been done to death, Slarti can't get over it and used the pedantic nature of the point to start arguments, I sincerely hope you won't be the same.

The lockdown would have saved lives. 

The evidence is in the population of the UK and what we know about the spread of this virus, Do yo actually believe not a single life was saved during lockdown or are you just further deploying the Slarti pedantry to argue? 

 

Edited October 28, 2020 by bazil85

[faraway saint]

25 minutes ago, antrin said:

We can't yet KNOW that lockdown saved lives.  Too soon to be THAT sure.

the drop in deaths may be down to how the virus lives its  life.

or due to the fact (in the northern hemisphere) that Summer arrived and fewer people were contained indoors, in enclosed spaces.
or...

a host of other reasons.

Nobody knows yet.
except you.

 

To deploy YOUR go-to evasive tactic....

...how about you provide us with solid EVIDENCE that Lockdown saved lives?

 

 

I'm fairly sure you have tried to inform him of this before, like so many subjects it seems to go over his head, or in one ear and out the other.

You choose. 

[antrin]

27 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

This has been done to death, Slarti can't get over it and used the pedantic nature of the point to start arguments, I sincerely hope you won't be the same.

The lockdown would have saved lives. 

The evidence is in the population of the UK and what we know about the spread of this virus, Do yo actually believe not a single life was saved during lockdown or are you just further deploying the Slarti pedantry to argue? 

Ah.

Now, that’s better. The added “would have” is the necessary concession that you don’t know.  You simply don’t.
 

You could have saved yourself that correction/qualification if you had just been honest and accurate in the first place.

 

you are learning.  You may get there... 

[Slarti]

We can't yet KNOW that lockdown saved lives.  Too soon to be THAT sure.
the drop in deaths may be down to how the virus lives its  life.
or due to the fact (in the northern hemisphere) that Summer arrived and fewer people were contained indoors, in enclosed spaces.
or...
a host of other reasons.
Nobody knows yet.
except you.
 
To deploy YOUR go-to evasive tactic....
...how about you provide us with solid EVIDENCE that Lockdown saved lives?
 
 

I don't think he'll ever get it. Too far up has own arse to admit to being wrong. He doesn't even realise that even if it is shown later that lockdown saved lives he's still wrong to claim it as a fact just now.

I'm fairly sure you have tried to inform him of this before, like so many subjects it seems to go over his head, or in one ear and out the other.
You choose. 

He doesn't seem to realise that saying that you CAN'T KNOW that lockdown has saved lives is NOT the same as saying that it hasn't.

Ah.
Now, that’s better. The added “would have” is the necessary concession that you don’t know.  You simply don’t.
 
You could have saved yourself that correction/qualification if you had just been honest and accurate in the first place.
 
you are learning.  You may get there... 

Bet he isn't and he doesn't. [emoji38]