Coronavirus

[faraway saint]

14 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Nope, I'm saying, yet again, it's a matter of timing and that if the current restrictions had been brought in when SAGE recommended on Sep 21 when the rolling 7 day average for cases was still under 1000 (now over 20,000 when  BJs lockdown starts) and deaths 22 (now over 300) then we wouldn't be in the current mess.

Fairy Nuff?

No they weren't. 

Almost 4,000. 

Anyhow, IF the current restrictions had been brought in at that point only you and Bazil would have been happy.

Maybe we should have just stayed with the original lockdown restrictions? 🤡

You're desperation to score a political point is consuming you, maybe time to have a break? 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by faraway saint

[Cookie Monster]

Nope, I'm saying, yet again, it's a matter of timing and that if the current restrictions had been brought in when SAGE recommended on Sep 21 when the rolling 7 day average for cases was still under 1000 (now over 20,000 when  BJs lockdown starts) and deaths 22 (now over 300) then we wouldn't be in the current mess.
Fairy Nuff?

Referring to the 1000 - 7day average, I believe you've got September and Augusts figures mixed up. [emoji106]

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Nope, I'm saying, yet again, it's a matter of timing and that if the current restrictions had been brought in when SAGE recommended on Sep 21 when the rolling 7 day average for cases was still under 1000 (now over 20,000 when  BJs lockdown starts) and deaths 22 (now over 300) then we wouldn't be in the current mess.

Fairy Nuff?

You've got the wrong date.

If you really meant August, then what you are saying is that we should have locked down again when daily deaths in the UK were almost zero. Which is about the level of support you'd have had if you'd suggested it at the time.

[bazil85]

9 minutes ago, Yflab said:

As England enters Lockdown 2.0 I see the figures from Australia are in for the year to date....I wonder how @bazil85 will spin those figures.

13 new cases in a nation of 26 Million. Total deaths under 1000 since this began.

I guess they are lying.
 

Are we basically a nation that can’t wash hands, maintain social distance, isolate or introduce a working Test and Trace app? And Australia was seeded with the dregs of our society all those years ago. 

 

Nope, I already said Australia in many ways has been a shinning light regarding action on Covid19, their approach to lockdown and case management is a lesson to many developed nations.

You again are just looking for an argument because of my username when the reality is, our views are pretty aligned. 👍

Edited November 5, 2020 by bazil85

[bazil85]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

No they weren't. 

Almost 4,000. 

Anyhow, IF the current restrictions had been brought in at that point only you and Bazil would have been happy.

Maybe we should have just stayed with the original lockdown restrictions? 🤡

You're desperation to score a political point is consuming you, maybe time to have a break? 

 

 

Imagine thousands of dead people and their families might also be happier had restrictions been far sooner... You'd have been unhappy had we put measures in place that saved lives and you accuse me of being a "ghoul" 

Brutal. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by bazil85

[shull]

Warming up in Melbourne.

Summer Season has begun.

Season of Influenza vanishing.

Just like in the UK a few months ago.

Duped tae feck

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, Yflab said:

So what about Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong, New Zealand, and Thailand? Are they all lying?

Gagging for an argument eh? Okay let's try find any point of disagreement in our views despite how small to service your needs. I feel there are many countries in that part of the world that should be praised for their actions regarding Covid19, especially when it comes to travel restrictions. New Zealand, Taiwan and Hong Kong from that list especially. (from my limited research, self admitted I haven't looked as closely as many European reactions)

I am reserved regarding low reporting in some very population dense countries and wouldn't be surprised if there was issues with accuracy. This is based on stories that show concerns about timely and accurate data.

It is JUST a reservation and it is just my view. I am open to evidence that would change my concerns. This may upset you but people are allowed to have reservations over figures, I don't know why you're getting so triggered over it (well actually I do, it rhymes with frazzle85 )

 

[bazil85]

8 minutes ago, Yflab said:

So why did the UK Government not follow the lead of these nations when a dumb f**ker like me could clearly see that they had more experience dealing with SARS type pandemics?

Hell I could even have save NHS England £12BIllion by providing free source code to the Australian Test and Trace system way over 6 months ago when I brought it to the attention on this forum with the download links. Australia learned from another nation Singapore and spent the grand total of £2M rolling it out.

https://www.covidsafe.gov.au

COVIDSafe^[10][11] is a digital contact tracing app announced by the Australian Governmenton 14 April 2020 to help combat the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.^[12] The app is based on the BlueTrace protocol developed by the Singaporean Government,^[13][14] and was first released on 26 April 2020.^[15][16] The app augments traditional contact tracing by automatically tracking encounters between users, and later allowing a state or territory health authority to warn a user they have come within 1.5 metres with an infected patient for 15 minutes or more.

 

 

No idea, I think that would have been very sensible. Had it been up to me personally, the lockdown in this country would have been far longer and more strict. Yet again as I have said a few times now, it seems like our views are similar/ the same on this. So quizzing me over it is a bit of a mystery... or is it? 

[Bud the Baker]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

Referring to the 1000 - 7day average, I believe you've got September and Augusts figures mixed up.

 

 

31 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You've got the wrong date.

If you really meant August, then what you are saying is that we should have locked down again when daily deaths in the UK were almost zero. Which is about the level of support you'd have had if you'd suggested it at the time.

 Yeah my mistake, but in fact moving forward a month shows the number of cases already in the upward spiral the lockdown decision should've been made in September. 

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, Yflab said:

I’ve presented you with official figures from many countries. Where is your evidence that certain countries are lying?

Im not arguing you daft cnut. It’s called debate. I’ve presented facts. You present fiction most of the time.

I'm not saying it's necessarily lying, I am saying I wouldn't be accepting these "official figures" blindly without question for some jurisdictions. I'm far from the only one that has concerns. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/18/the-curious-case-of-south-asias-low-coronavirus-deaths/?gb=true

https://www.voanews.com/science-health/coronavirus-outbreak/experts-doubt-low-coronavirus-counts-some-southeast-asian

https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2020/08/06/lifting-the-veil-on-thailands-covid-19-success-story/

Bar this point, we have practically agreed on everything regarding Covid19, you are either wilfully ignoring this or just too stubborn to accept it. To say I present "fiction most of the time" is to say your view is also "fiction most of the time"

Take off your judgemental Baz glasses and actually read my POV on the pandemic ffs. 

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, Yflab said:

So I opened up the first article. The opening paragraph reads

“Scientists and public health experts are continuing to conduct research into why some South Asian countries – despite their ramshackle health infrastructure and dense populations – have witnessed lower coronavirus mortality rates compared with many Western countries.”

Have you ever visited any of the Asian countries I listed and provided statistics for? I have. I’d not class the ones I visited as having ramshackle health infrastructures. There was little point reading on from that point based on my personal experience of those countries.

Now get back to “work” you idle f**ker. I hope you don’t “work” for any company I invest my money in.

If you read on "different levels of exposure to similar viruses or even incomplete data on mortality in some countries resulting in faulty conclusions."

Are you actually suggesting visiting a country with populations of millions of people can give a person a conclusive outlook on that countries health infrastructure? What capacity did you visit these countries in? A detailed review of their hospitals & medical practices over several jurisdictions to get an in-depth analysis of their workings... Or was it a holiday? That point is utter nonsense but again, it is just my view that we should potentially be a bit cautious with some of the reporting. 

That's it, you're making it a far bigger deal than it need be and going out your way to be argumentative because of your pre-held views on my posts.

You don't need to like it but our views are largely aligned on the pandemic, nae luck. 

If you have any kind of stocks and shares investment portfolio, it's extremely likely you do. Fortunately it's baseless that posting on BAWA in anyway impacts my working life, it's just another way some people lash out. 👍

[bazil85]

14 minutes ago, Yflab said:

So what countries that I listed have you visited? Answer the question.

None.

See point on why that's irrelevant. 👍

[bazil85]

6 minutes ago, Yflab said:

Sadly @bazil85 I have experienced a life threatening respiratory illness that was so acute that only a small number of adults (180) in the UK over a period of 5 years qualified for a medical trial on the use of ECMO on Adults.

Most died during the trial. 50% treated conventionally vs 50% ECMO. Those that survived were left with severe disabilities or died within 6 months. I was left with significant brain damage and compromised lungs which might explain a lot. What’s your excuse?

Since that illness I have tried to live a normal life. I’ve travelled extensively. I have however been hospitalised and required treatment abroad due to my lungs. So I know from first hand experience what facilities are like in other countries and can compare them with the UK. If I had been left in the initial receiving hospital I would have died as they did not have the equipment or experience to deal with my condition.

I personally believe I have a lot more experience of acute respiratory illnesses than you or Dido fcuking Harding. 

 

I'm very sorry to hear that but as I have said, our views on this horrible virus are very much the same.

From what I can see, the only point we have disagreed on in the last few weeks has been the reporting in some Asian countries and even then, my only point is that we should arguably be cautious over the statistics.

I'm glad you managed to get the treatment you needed but I'm sorry I won't agree visiting and using one or a few of these hospitals gives you a far better understanding of the governance used in Asian healthcare systems. 

[Russian Saint]

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

 

 Yeah my mistake, but in fact moving forward a month shows the number of cases already in the upward spiral the lockdown decision should've been made in September. 

You think we should have locked down the entire UK in September when only about 10-30 people were dying every day?

While we're on the subject, we need to put this endless and tedious moralising to bed. Lockdown doesn't "save lives". It delays deaths at best, to prevent overwhelming the NHS. You spread the deaths out. That is the only justification for ever having any form of lockdown because as soon as restrictions are lifted, the thing takes off again. That was made crystal clear right back at the start by the same scientists urging lockdowns in the first place - once you start, you can never get out without a cure. That's my objection to lockdowns.

[bazil85]

8 minutes ago, Yflab said:

I have a far better first hand experience than you. That’s a fact.

I’ve clearly used figures from https://www.worldometers.info

You cannot present any actual facts that any of these countries that I have listed have lied to WHO and their own people.

It is a baseless opinion and frankly sums your intelligence on this debate.

Until you can provide scientific facts that back up your “opinions” I won’t have anything further to say to you on this matter.

No doubt you will respond as you normally do with nothing concrete as evidence.

So I will get the last word in now.......another fact!

Zyzzyva!

And yet again, I'm not claiming it is "fact" I am just saying, I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing to treat these stats with caution, it's a view many other people have as well, as I have shared with you. You don't have to agree with me but I also don't have to agree with you either, something you'll just have to accept as my view. I've already accepted you don't believe any stats in these countries should be questioned at all regardless of situation, fine. 

The rest is just a bit of lashing out and confirming what I have already said, (it's just a view of caution, not a statement of fact, never claimed otherwise) 

The bit I've highlighted seems to be an attempt at reverse psychology to stop me responding (who else has done that before eh?), it won't work, I am defending my view from a person that (even though they largely agree with me) is bringing into question my intelligence. 

Feel free to post something along the lines of "called it" or "knew you'd respond" 👍

Edited November 5, 2020 by bazil85

[Bud the Baker]

46 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You think we should have locked down the entire UK in September when only about 10-30 people were dying every day?

While we're on the subject, we need to put this endless and tedious moralising to bed. Lockdown doesn't "save lives". It delays deaths at best, to prevent overwhelming the NHS. You spread the deaths out. That is the only justification for ever having any form of lockdown because as soon as restrictions are lifted, the thing takes off again. That was made crystal clear right back at the start by the same scientists urging lockdowns in the first place - once you start, you can never get out without a cure. That's my objection to lockdowns.

If we had acted earlier when cases were lower we could have had circuit breaker lock downs for shorter periods, over the half-tern breaks & Christmas like I argued a month ago, so yet again I'll say I think we should have locked down during these periods. This would have driven down case numbers and saved lives, not just delayed deaths and all this with less damage to the economy than we'll eventually have to deal with - that's clearly what SAGE were advocating in September

Lockdowns obviously can save lives if you eliminate the virus as Far Eastern countries have shown and that Europe bottled out of in the summer, then you can concentrate on more established treatments, your method sacrifices people to Covid and Cancer etc and for what - to save you a bit of money when it comes to paying for the pandemic. It may very well be too late to eliminate the virus in the UK/Europe pre-vaccine and my fear is we'll probably not go the full distance again in this lockdown but to give an example I'd rather follow the Far Eastern route pf elimination coupled with near ubiquitous mask wearing than the half-hearted European route or perish the thought the US model that you, Nigel and your gammon window licking compadres want.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Bud the Baker

[Ayrshire Saints]

Furlough extended UK wide until March Sunak announces. And England thinks their lockdown is ending on 2 December !!!

[Slarti]

2 hours ago, Yflab said:

I have a far better first hand experience than you. That’s a fact.

I’ve clearly used figures from https://www.worldometers.info

You cannot present any actual facts that any of these countries that I have listed have lied to WHO and their own people.

It is a baseless opinion and frankly sums your intelligence on this debate.

Until you can provide scientific facts that back up your “opinions” I won’t have anything further to say to you on this matter.

No doubt you will respond as you normally do with nothing concrete as evidence.

So I will get the last word in now.......another fact!

Zyzzyva!

 

 

 

 

That can't be a fact as it's not his opinion.

He doesn't really do facts, only his opinions that he refers to as facts (though he is doing less of this since being called out on it).

There's absolutely no point getting into a debate with him as he just claims that people disagree with him because of who he is, not what he says.  The point that almost nobody agrees with him on any topic is totally lost on him, he's not known for self-reflection.

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, Slarti said:

That can't be a fact as it's not his opinion.

He doesn't really do facts, only his opinions that he refers to as facts (though he is doing less of this since being called out on it).

There's absolutely no point getting into a debate with him as he just claims that people disagree with him because of who he is, not what he says.  The point that almost nobody agrees with him on any topic is totally lost on him, he's not known for self-reflection.

Your five step ignore guide to BAWA. Slarti stuck on step 4 for the time being with his continued sharing of lies. 

1. Say you're going to stop responding and arguing with the person
2. Keep responding and arguing with them a bit longer
3. Put the person on ignore (make sure you announce it to everyone)
4. Still follow almost every response to the person, often jumping in and bringing up long dead argument points you already said you’d stop arguing with them over
5. Take the person off ignore and repeat from step one

 

Edited November 5, 2020 by bazil85

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

If we had acted earlier when cases were lower we could have had circuit breaker lock downs for shorter periods, over the half-tern breaks & Christmas like I argued a month ago, so yet again I'll say I think we should have locked down during these periods. This would have driven down case numbers and saved lives, not just delayed deaths and all this with less damage to the economy than we'll eventually have to deal with - that's clearly what SAGE were advocating in September

Lockdowns obviously can save lives if you eliminate the virus as Far Eastern countries have shown and that Europe bottled out of in the summer, then you can concentrate on more established treatments, your method sacrifices people to Covid and Cancer etc and for what - to save you a bit of money when it comes to paying for the pandemic. It may very well be too late to eliminate the virus in the UK/Europe pre-vaccine and my fear is we'll probably not go the full distance again in this lockdown but to give an example I'd rather follow the Far Eastern route pf elimination coupled with near ubiquitous mask wearing than the half-hearted European route or perish the thought the US model that you, Nigel and your gammon window licking compadres want.

You really need to have a word with yourself.

[Bud the Baker]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

You really need to have a word with yourself.

Just making sure you read the entire post - window licker! 

[faraway saint]

No mention of the extra generous continuation of the furlough scheme?

 

[Cookie Monster]

No mention of the extra generous continuation of the furlough scheme?
 

He is very generous with our money. [emoji6]

[faraway saint]

Yesterday's number must have been a blip, back to just over 300 today, them stattos must have been on the bevvy. 

22 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

He is very generous with our money.

Maybe you should write a letter and complain. 

Edited November 5, 2020 by faraway saint