Coronavirus

[Sue Denim]

1 hour ago, smcc said:

As usual you produce figures and graphs to attempt to support your point of view but still do not admit that the pandemic is world wide. You keep talking about excess deaths but do not admit that the main reason for the excess non-Covid deaths is the stress on health services because of Covid.

Try looking at sources that don't suit you e.g. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/09/us/covid-hospitals-icu-capacity.html

Among other things the headline gives the lie to your assertion that the pandemic is over.

‘There’s No Place for Them to Go’: I.C.U. Beds Near Capacity Across U.S.

 

 

You brought up the subject of the US, I’ve shown you 2 graphs from the same source which clearly shows that excess deaths in the pseudo second wave do not match the rising covid deaths in the US. 
 

You’ve completely ignored this. Is it because you don’t like the truth getting in the way of your political agenda? 
 

Excess deaths in the spring and the summer in the US follow the same path as covid deaths.

How do you explain the fact that in the pseudo second wave, there are huge covid deaths but no accompanying excess deaths?

Yes, the pseudo epidemic is worldwide.

Your then highlight that “ICU beds *near* capacity”

This is similar to the BBC article that I highlighted yesterday.

ICU beds are * near* to capacity *every* year.

This year is no different. 
 

And non covid excess deaths have been caused by restricting health care access. Back in the summer, hospital beds were 40% empty. 
 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Sue Denim

[Sue Denim]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

You thinking those two things are equivalent explains a lot Andy. 🤣

You thinking they aren’t, yet again highlights your cluelessness, hypocrisy and your volatile changing of opinion from day to day 😃

[faraway saint]

13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Oh f**k off with this drama queenery. 🤣

People die. It's sad but it's part of life and life is nothing but risk.

Away and hide under the bedsheets.

And you're right. I have no interest in what you or anyone else thinks of me. You represent zero value to me.

And that's why you are a socially inadequate human being with next to no one in your sad empty life.

Not a surprise, just thought I'd clarify in case anyone wasn't clear. 😂

[faraway saint]

21 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Oh f**k off with this drama queenery. 🤣

People die. It's sad but it's part of life and life is nothing but risk.

Away and hide under the bedsheets.

And you're right. I have no interest in what you or anyone else thinks of me. You represent zero value to me.

 

[Sue Denim]

@smcc

[Sue Denim]

26 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

 

And you're right. I have no interest in what you or anyone else thinks of me. You represent zero value to me.

Negative value surely? 😃

[antrin]

11 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

 

You brought up the subject of the US, I’ve shown you 2 graphs from the same source which clearly shows that excess deaths in the pseudo second wave do not match the rising covid deaths in the US. 
 

Excess deaths in the spring and the summer in the US follow the same path as covid deaths.

How do you explain the fact that in the pseudo second wave, there are huge covid deaths but no accompanying excess deaths?

Yes, the pseudo epidemic is worldwide.

Your then highlight that “ICU beds *near* capacity”

This is similar to the BBC article that I highlighted yesterday.

ICU beds are * near* to capacity *every* year.

This year is no different. 
 

And non covid excess deaths have been caused by restricting health care access. Back in the summer, hospital beds were 40% empty. 
 

 

OK...

I enjoy that you're not going along with any line pumped out by this government (and I enjoy you being sceptical about the veracity of all the foreign governments).

I know our govt is economical with the truth, incompetent and probably utilising the pandemic to obfuscate the utter f**k-up that is Brexit.

I'm putting all that down to human error, sluggard governing  and a devastating virus that we still haven't quite corralled.

 

I'd genuinely love to know what you genuinely believe is behind all this?  Is it Fake News - and if so, who benefits?

Is it a super group of capitalists including the Gates', Bezos, Zuckerberg etc?

Is it Putin and his oligarchs?

Is it Green Lizards? 

Or has it all been set up by Santa who just wanted a year off?

(A serious response would be welcomed.)

 

[Sue Denim]

24 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

 

A typical woke middle class leftie meme doing the rounds. 
 

When they say “assholes”, what they really mean is “the working class”

Edited December 21, 2020 by Sue Denim

[Sue Denim]

13 minutes ago, antrin said:

OK...

I enjoy that you're not going along with any line pumped out by this government (and I enjoy you being sceptical about the veracity of all the foreign governments).

I know our govt is economical with the truth, incompetent and probably utilising the pandemic to obfuscate the utter f**k-up that is Brexit.

I'm putting all that down to human error, sluggard governing  and a devastating virus that we still haven't quite corralled.

 

I'd genuinely love to know what you genuinely believe is behind all this?  Is it Fake News - and if so, who benefits?

Is it a super group of capitalists including the Gates', Bezos, Zuckerberg etc?

Is it Putin and his oligarchs?

Is it Green Lizards? 

Or has it all been set up by Santa who just wanted a year off?

(A serious response would be welcomed.)

 

I don’t think there is any great conspiracy theory behind it all, albeit I am very suspicious about China in all of this.

But that doesn’t account for how the west has reacted.

Its been a convergence of self interests in the west

Panicking governments who feared hundreds of thousands of deaths, a media which ramped up the fear, wildly exaggerated modelling, scientists with a political agenda, scientists being funded by vaccine companies, social media, the middle class working from home on full pay.

Massive list of reasons.

With an average age of death at 82, this could never have happened in the past because there wouldn’t have been enough old people to die from it, explaining why it’s not really touched the third world.

It’s a massive, self inflicted disaster IMO

Note though that I am not denying the pandemic. It can’t be denied, the facts are there to see. I know people who’ve had it.

But it’s not turned out to be the plague that was predicted at the start with 500k U.K. deaths.

I’m denying this second wave though. There are some covid deaths, but the massive numbers being churned out clearly do not match the excess deaths.

The pandemic ended in May, the virus is now endemic, like the flu, like other coronaviruses. To the vast majority of the population it’s harmless.

It does not warrant the huge number of collateral deaths around the world nor the destruction of working class livelihoods. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Sue Denim

[antrin]

24 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

I don’t think there is any great conspiracy theory behind it all, albeit I am very suspicious about China in all of this.

But that doesn’t account for how the west has reacted.

Its been a convergence of self interests in the west

Panicking governments who feared hundreds of thousands of deaths, a media which ramped up the fear, wildly exaggerated modelling, scientists with a political agenda, scientists being funded by vaccine companies, social media, the middle class working from home on full pay.

Massive list of reasons.

With an average age of death at 82, this could never have happened in the past because there wouldn’t have been enough old people to die from it, explaining why it’s not really touched the third world.

It’s a massive, self inflicted disaster IMO

Note though that I am not denying the pandemic. It can’t be denied, the facts are there to see. I know people who’ve had it.

But it’s not turned out to be the plague that was predicted at the start with 500k U.K. deaths.

I’m denying this second wave though. There are some covid deaths, but the massive numbers being churned out clearly do not match the excess deaths.

The pandemic ended in May, the virus is now endemic, like the flu, like other coronaviruses. To the vast majority of the population it’s harmless.

It does not warrant the huge number of collateral deaths around the world nor the destruction of working class livelihoods. 

Thanks for the honest reply.

And I'm sure your clarifications above will genuinely reassure and quieten many who thought you WERE going way OTT into Lizard territory with your multiple spamming interventions.  I was one.  ;rolleyes:

 

I disagree with you about there being a second wave.  It did look (about 3 weeks ago) that the numbers were falling off, but that was being too optimistic.  Yet I'm  also highly sceptical about why so few people now perish from ailments other than CV19.

I agree that measures taken in Scotland and the NW/NW of England and Wales were instituted too late,  have been draconian and achieved SFA apart from social and economic mayhem.

 

I'm at a loss as to why leaders persist with schemes that have not worked and are not working.

 

[Sue Denim]

The stupidity of the government and their scientific advisers has backfired spectacularly 

Covid-19: More than 30 countries ban UK arrivals over Covid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55391289

Desperate to find reasons to explain the casedemic, they have concocted a reason to fit the data. 
 

And this is unintended consequence

 

 

[Sue Denim]

11 minutes ago, antrin said:

Thanks for the honest reply.

And I'm sure your clarifications above will genuinely reassure and quieten many who thought you WERE going way OTT into Lizard territory with your multiple spamming interventions.  I was one.  ;rolleyes:

 

I disagree with you about there being a second wave.  It did look (about 3 weeks ago) that the numbers were falling off, but that was being too optimistic.  Yet I'm  also highly sceptical about why so few people now perish from ailments other than CV19.

I agree that measures taken in Scotland and the NW/NW of England and Wales were instituted too late,  have been draconian and achieved SFA apart from social and economic mayhem.

 

I'm at a loss as to why leaders persist with schemes that have not worked and are not working.

 

I’m not a denier nor an anti vaxxer.

I’m simply a lockdown sceptic.

I don’t believe the data supports a second wave. If anything, a second ripple. 
 

If the number of covid deaths being churned out is correct then record low of deaths of other causes are now occurring. And that isn’t possible.

Indeed, I’m of the opinion that current excess deaths are being caused by restrictions on access to healthcare. 
 

Like the US graphs I replied to @smcc with earlier, the U.K. graphs are showing similar results. Indeed it’s happening worldwide. 
 

First graph shows excess deaths, second graph shows covid deaths.

The 2 graphs are not compatible. 
 

Excess deaths in the Spring clearly follow covid deaths.

They do not in the pseudo second wave. Same as in the US graphs. 
 

We * know* that the excess deaths graph is correct.

And if that is correct then the number of covid deaths are being inflated. There is no other alternative. 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Sue Denim

[antrin]

11 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

The stupidity of the government and their scientific advisers has backfired spectacularly 

Covid-19: More than 30 countries ban UK arrivals over Covid

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55391289

 

 

It DID amuse me when I considered what might Matt Hancock have possibly thought might happen when he started warning us that there was a new worrying strain of covid ripping through the UK?

Did he believe that its only impact would be to make UK folk stay at home? (FAIL!)

Or that no one would mention this to other countries to which our inhabitants and workers might wish to journey?

Class Crass governing.

[Slarti]

11 minutes ago, antrin said:

It DID amuse me when I considered what might Matt Hancock have possibly thought might happen when he started warning us that there was a new worrying strain of covid ripping through the UK?

Did he believe that its only impact would be to make UK folk stay at home? (FAIL!)

Or that no one would mention this to other countries to which our inhabitants and workers might wish to journey?

Class Crass governing.

"Matt Hancock" and "thought" in the same sentence without any negation?  The real question is "What were you thinking when you typed that?" 

[antrin]

37 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

 

I saw that Gov graph but it's only relevant up to Dec 4.

The line has started climbing again.

 

Indie Sage's Prof Christina Pagel (like you) believed that the figures looked to be in control 3 weeks ago, but she has come clean and publicly apologised a fortnight ago, as her optimistic projected fall transformed into an increase.

You should look at the start of the weekly (till now) indie Sage youtube discussions.  Christina (or Kit) of indie Sage  resent figures that thy have gathered as up to date and accurately as they can.  And they only bear a 'resemblance' to what the gov offers.

Here is the edition in which Christina is optimistic - Dec 4

indie_SAGE 04.12.20 - YouTube

And the following week where she says her projection may have failed to follow through.  

indie_SAGE 11.12.20 - YouTube

 

You should look at these more current data, Cap'n

 

I forgot to link Friday's indie Sage hour.

indie_SAGE 18.12.20 - YouTube

Professsor Kit Yates - "Worst set of data I've had to present this far".

That's in terms of cases rising and hospital admissions.

Nothing positive - little that was new. 

A wee bit about the new variant.

 

They/indie Sage have decided that NOW is a good time to go on their Xmas hols. 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by antrin

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

And that's why you are a socially inadequate human being with next to no one in your sad empty life.

Not a surprise, just thought I'd clarify in case anyone wasn't clear. 😂

You've still to reveal why having lots of friends makes your life superior to mine.

I'm on tenterhooks.

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You've still to reveal why having lots of friends makes your life superior to mine.

I'm on tenterhooks.

You two are cute, so argumentative, defensive and miserable that you can't see you're practically carbon copies of each other. 🤣

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

 

 

I'm at a loss as to why leaders persist with schemes that have not worked and are not working.

 

I think it's because they have no other ideas about what to do and don't want to be blamed for further deaths.

There's no other reasonable excuse for persisting with lockdowns and mask wearing when they can clearly see they make no difference.

[Sue Denim]

Nicola Sturgeon urges people in Scotland not to meet indoors on Christmas Day
 

Aye, like my parents are going to serve us up Christmas dinner in the back garden 😂

Thanks for the comedy Nicola but we’ll be ignoring your stupidity 

[lenziebud]

1 minute ago, Sue Denim said:

Nicola Sturgeon urges people in Scotland not to meet indoors on Christmas Day
 

Aye, like my parents are going to serve us up Christmas dinner in the back garden 😂

Thanks for the comedy Nicola but we’ll be ignoring your stupidity 

Much more likely that everyone will ignore your stupidity just like we have always done

[oaksoft]

1 minute ago, lenziebud said:

Much more likely that everyone will ignore your stupidity just like we have always done

Actually, on this issue he's not the only one who will be ignoring her ridiculous request.

[bazil85]

4 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Nicola Sturgeon urges people in Scotland not to meet indoors on Christmas Day
 

Aye, like my parents are going to serve us up Christmas dinner in the back garden 😂

Thanks for the comedy Nicola but we’ll be ignoring your stupidity 

Why are you singling out Nicola Sturgeon when this is advice we are seeing in multiple countries and locations across the world? If you used a wee bit of common sense you would see the advice is to make other plans for your Christmas dinner, not fire it oot on the decking 

[lenziebud]

7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I think it's because they have no other ideas about what to do and don't want to be blamed for further deaths.

There's no other reasonable excuse for persisting with lockdowns and mask wearing when they can clearly see they make no difference.

So why in Asia where they have been hugely successful in controlling COVID do all the folks still wear masks and have been from the beginning.

Strikes me that you are making comments about a subject that you just don't have a clue about

[antrin]

12 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

So why in Asia where they have been hugely successful in controlling COVID do all the folks still wear masks and have been from the beginning.

Strikes me that you are making comments about a subject that you just don't have a clue about

In Asia, partly because they've had more practice with pandemics, they have set up and run(with also in some cases with some authoritarian help) successful localised Track and Trace systems.  

They really know QUICKLY where virus/the R number  may be growing and can react in a targeted manner where it's needed.

We haven't a clue: where it's spreading, why it's spreading or the extent to which we should be worried.

[shull]