Coronavirus

[smcc]

8 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Yes, why?

If you can't(or more likely won't) see why there is no point in having any discussion  with you.  I pointed out that, despite your claims, the number of general and acute beds beds occupied by Covid patients in Welsh hospitals increased by more than 40% between 21 November and 21 December, while the number of no-Covid patients in this set of beds actually fell slightly. You, of course, continue to ignore figures that don't suit you.

[shull]

Maybe all figures are a lot of pish.

Nicola may well stand at her Press briefing every day and spout lies as does Boris when he appears now and again.

Aw hoodwinked.

Get Britain opened.

[bazil85]

10 hours ago, antrin said:

Sorry, but if you want to argue about the accuracy of numbers I just felt it might help to use language that was equally correct, so there’d be no misunderstandings.

Still pedantic though, there would and will be no misunderstanding. . 

10 hours ago, antrin said:

And er.... just to BE pedantic - it is antrin and always has been.... in this incarnation, at least.

That tops it. 

[bazil85]

10 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Another baz tactic, when unable to argue his point he resorts to conflating with conspiracy theorists and deniers. 

Incorrect, there's a reason why people like them are in the overwhelming minority, the facts are.

1. The pandemic is not over 

2.EXCESS deaths in the UK this year point to people dying linked to Covid

3. It is entirely appropriate to restrict everyday life if you value human life.  

10 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

On the contrary, Wales mislabelling collateral deaths as covid deaths proves I’m right and that you are wrong. 
Your virtue, their death 

Again you can't quote stats that you feel back up part on your narrative while contradicting another. Do you think they are accurate or not? If they are accurate the pandemic is not "over" if you don't, how do they back up your view? 

9 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Pointing out that you don’t understand what excess deaths means isn’t pedantry.

It’s pointing out that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

And no amount of backtracking changes that.

There is a huge amount of evidence that lockdown is causing excess deaths this year. Even SAGE believes it will kill around 200,000.

But it is pedantic, a slight difference in wording won't confuse anyone. It isn't the correction it's the manner in which both of you have done it & here we are, several messages later and it's still being discussed. These points are right out the Slarti playbook & don't progress either side. "by the way, excess is the correct terminology, just for future posts" Job done, we move on. 

Excess vs excessive deaths does not change the point, yes I got the terminology wrong, fully admit that but beyond that the point stands. 80,000+ excess deaths during the time of the pandemic, you have provided no alternative to Covid19. 

Show me where Sage has said it "will" cause 200,000? Lockdown is to date not having the impact you have claimed for months, you even resorted to political decisions = possible (although you claim definite) lockdown deaths, you've been corrected on that. 

9 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

If restricting healthcare for most of the year, kicking 25,000 sick and elderly patients out of hospital and slapping DNR notices on everyone over 75 doesn’t cause massive excess deaths then the government can save £ billions by dismantling most of the NHS

No one is denying mistakes have been made, there has also had to be difficult decisions given the horrible nature of this virus. None of that has been the main contributor to 80,000 excess deaths, covid19 has been. 

[HSS]

I bought an epileptic lettuce,the only thing I could make with it was a seizure salad.

[bazil85]

9 hours ago, Slarti said:

15 hours ago, antrin said:

Erm... it's not excessive deaths.
 
Death is simply that - dead.  Death in itself can't be excessive.  The light simply switches off.
The manner in which the death occurs could be described as excessive eg "he was stabbed, bricked, boiled in oil, had his head cut off then they smothered him and dropped him in a pool of piranha".
 Now that could be described as being rendered dead in an "excessive" manner, but the initial mortal blow would have sufficed for the person to be simply factually dead. 
And if there masses of people being killed in such an over-elaborate manner then I guess you could then compare individually excessive deaths.
 
However we're not doing that here.  So you can just count excess deaths  in comparison with how many died during a similar period as the ONS is doing.
 
I should get out more... 

As stated previously, you're wasting your time as he has admitted that he uses his own definitions for words. It really shouldn't be that one word that bothers you, it should be all the rest, as only he knows what he is actually saying and how many of those words he is using his own definition for. For all the rest of us know, "excessive deaths" could be "fish suppers" in his head.

Slarti stuck on 4. I suppose this is right in his element. 

The five step ignore guide to BAWA

1. Say you're going to stop responding and arguing with the person
2. Keep responding and arguing with them a bit longer
3. Put the person on ignore (make sure you announce it to everyone)
4. Still follow almost every response to the person and bring the person up in completely unrelated topics, often bringing up long dead argument points you already said you’d stop arguing with them over
5. Take the person off ignore and repeat from step one

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I did like reports that panic buying of lettuce was just the "tip of the iceberg".
That made me laugh. Anyone remember laughter?

Not enough people voted romaine.

[Bud the Baker]

A Brexit extension would no doubt be a boon with the current escalation of the pandemic although does anyone seriously think that we won't be back here when the new deadline looms?

That said a three month extension so that the vaccine program is well underway and (hopefully) spring brings about an additional drop in infections should be a no-brainer.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Bud the Baker

[oaksoft]

13 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

A Brexit extension would no doubt be a boon with the current escalation of the pandemic although does anyone seriously think that we won't be back here when the new deadline looms?

That said a three month extension so that the vaccine program is well underway and (hopefully) spring brings about an additional drop in infections should be a no-brainer.

The Tories want Brexit done and dusted whilst everyone else is distracted by covid.

That's the reason for the indecent haste.

[Ayrshire Saints]

I bought an epileptic lettuce,the only thing I could make with it was a seizure salad.

Cheesy as hell

[ALBIONSAINT]

4 hours ago, shull said:

Maybe all figures are a lot of pish.

Nicola may well stand at her Press briefing every day and spout lies as does Boris when he appears now and again.

Aw hoodwinked.

Get Britain opened.

Maybe it’s 5G masts or a Bill Gates conspiracy or the lizard people trying to change our DNA ! 
oh no, I have been in here too long with Shull, I have Stockholm syndrome!! 

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Eric Arthur Blair said:

On 12/22/2020 at 7:24 AM, oaksoft said:

I did like reports that panic buying of lettuce was just the "tip of the iceberg".
That made me laugh. Anyone remember laughter?

Not enough people voted romaine.

So the Brexit options (lettuce style) were Vote Leaf and Vote Romaine. And all of it was over a battle to avoid being ruled by Brussels (wahey!!!).

Sometimes the puns write themselves.

Edited December 23, 2020 by oaksoft

[antrin]

4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Still pedantic though, there would and will be no misunderstanding. . 

No.

You were simply wrong.

I merely pointed out your error.

if that is being pedantic, then all discussion would be pointless. 
 

Your squirming and equivocation - to avoid accepting you are fallible - IS pedantry.

Refusal to admit obvious errors underlines your pitiable frailty and fallibility.

You have my scorn.

word

Edited December 23, 2020 by antrin

[slapsalmon]

On 12/21/2020 at 11:29 PM, bazil85 said:

More you have no credibility on this page. You very often change words like "could" and "may" for "will" No confidence you wouldn't do similar just because it's in Spanish. 

Oh the irony. 

[lenziebud]

19 hours ago, Russian Saint said:

 

The Asian countries that I’ve been to including South Korea, Singapore, Japan, far eastern Russia and Kazakhstan. Wearing masks is a normal practice, pandemic or not chap. A practice I may add couldn’t get my head around at first, but after a few weeks I didn’t bat an eyelid at.

 

Think your going to find its no different here going forward. The new normal is going to be a bit different

Edited December 23, 2020 by lenziebud

[lenziebud]

19 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

How do you know that the low number of deaths are down to anything that they’ve done?

Maybe they already had a level of pre-existing immunity from other coronaviruses?

Strikes me that you’re making comments about a subject that you just don’t have a clue about 

Mind you, I doubt you have a clue about *any* subject you comment about 

You can’t help being stupid I suppose 

Oh the irony

[munoz]

This is the real reason why there's no lettuce left on our shelves......

[Eric Arthur Blair]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

So the Brexit options (lettuce style) were Vote Leaf and Vote Romaine. And all of it was over a battle to avoid being ruled by Brussels (wahey!!!).

Sometimes the puns write themselves.

You don't half sprout some nonsense.

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

No.

You were simply wrong.

I merely pointed out your error.

if that is being pedantic, then all discussion would be pointless. 
 

Your squirming and equivocation - to avoid accepting you are fallible - IS pedantry.

Refusal to admit obvious errors underlines your pitiable frailty and fallibility.

You have my scorn.

word

Cool, allow me now to point out your errors above. It was not a case of "merely pointed out your error" If you had said: 

"excess deaths is actually the right expression, not excessive" job done. 

Death is simply that - dead.  Death in itself can't be excessive.  The light simply switches off.

The manner in which the death occurs could be described as excessive eg "he was stabbed, bricked, boiled in oil, had his head cut off then they smothered him and dropped him in a pool of piranha".

 Now that could be described as being rendered dead in an "excessive" manner, but the initial mortal blow would have sufficed for the person to be simply factually dead. 

And if there masses of people being killed in such an over-elaborate manner then I guess you could then compare individually excessive deaths.

However we're not doing that here.  So you can just count excess deaths  in comparison with how many died during a similar period as the ONS is doing.

Rest is not needed, it was pedantic. 

Second mistake, I do accept it was a mistake, "pedantic" does not mean you think someone's comment is wrong. 

Guess we can both accept we made errors and move on, 👍

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, slapsalmon said:

Oh the irony. 

Don't get it. 

[Sue Denim]

Latest NRS stats out today and it’s now getting *very* silly in Scotland

Despite there being 203 covid deaths, the number of excess deaths (note to @bazil85, that’s excess, not excessive) were 10.

Yes, that’s correct, mortality in Scotland last week was normal for this time of year.

1,282 deaths in Scotland last week and 16% of all of them were allegedly covid deaths.

That would mean there were only 1,079 non covid deaths in Scotland last.... an all time low for this time of year.

Despite this, the same stats also show that there were 72 *excess* deaths in private homes in Scotland last week and only 4 of them were covid.

There were 41 *less* deaths in hospitals last week than the 5 year average, this despite there allegedly being 101 covid deaths in hospitals.

18 *less* deaths than normal in care homes last week yet 62 people in care homes allegedly dying of covid.

If the number of people currently dying in Scotland is normal and there are less people than normal dying in hospitals, why is Scotland going into lockdown?

Edited December 23, 2020 by Sue Denim

[Sue Denim]

@smcc after bringing up the subject of the US, have you been able to explain these 2 graphs yet?

That’s a number of days gone by, why are you ignoring it?

Top graph shows excess deaths in the US, bottom graph shows recorded covid deaths.

As you can see, easily seen correlation between the 2 peaks of excess deaths and covid deaths in the spring (mainly north eastern state) and summer (southern states).

Why is there no spike in excess deaths in the so called second wave to match the spike in covid deaths?

 

[shull]

A new Variant for Christmas. 

[bazil85]

2 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Latest NRS stats out today and it’s now getting *very* silly in Scotland

Despite there being 203 covid deaths, the number of excess deaths (note to @bazil85, that’s excess, not excessive) were 10.

Yes, that’s correct, mortality in Scotland last week was normal for this time of year.

1,282 deaths in Scotland last week and 16% of all of them were allegedly covid deaths.

That would mean there were only 1,079 non covid deaths in Scotland last.... an all time low for this time of year.

Despite this, the same stats also show that there were 72 *excess* deaths in private homes in Scotland last week and only 4 of them were covid.

There were 41 *less* deaths in hospitals last week than the 5 year average, this despite there allegedly being 101 covid deaths in hospitals.

18 *less* deaths than normal in care homes last week yet 62 people in care homes allegedly dying of covid.

If the number of people currently dying in Scotland is normal and there are less people than normal dying in hospitals, why is Scotland going into lockdown?

Well done Scotland in a seemingly better handling of this pandemic to date than our English neighbors. Andy again posts content that backs up stricter Covid restrictions being the apparent right approach to handle the pandemic. If you value human life over economy, this is a no brainer (fortunate that...). 

Would seem that contrary to "lockdown is killing people" claims, it actually seems to be having a positive effect on materialisation of some other death causes. Some positive news in a sea of negativity. 

In sadder news 744 UK covid19 deaths within 28 days of a positive test, some people will say the pandemic is "over" these people are wrong. 

[Sue Denim]

Sturgeon not resigning is the height of hypocrisy 

She has to go