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faraway saint

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12 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Well I have to go with FTOF rather than faraway, despite BJ saying for a week or so "it's about data not dates" it appears he's veering towards his right wing backbenchers and away from his scientific advisers...

Whitty at odds with Johnson over 'big bang' reopening of schools in England | Schools | The Guardian

Haven't you already said Johnson would have been gone previously? :rolleyes:

You're getting mixed up with wishful thinking and probability. 

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3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Haven't you already said Johnson would have been gone previously? :rolleyes:

You're getting mixed up with wishful thinking and probability. 

Don't think so - I always fancied this summer with the "triumphant exit" I've already described,. Factors like "sources close to the PM :rolleyes:" telling the press that his salary isn't enough to cover all his needs make me reckon riding off into the sunset, giving £100k a pop after dinner speeches, a mega book deal and company directorships will look like the cushier option compared to staying on, rebuilding the economy, saving the union and managing the right wing of his party.

Desperate to see him go, quite the opposite, as a supporter of Scottish Independence I can't think of a better Tory leader.

Anyway we won't have long to wait...

Edited by Bud the Baker
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2 minutes ago, Slarti said:
9 minutes ago, faraway saint said:
It says his e-mail was dated on 13th January last year? 

That just looks like a typo.

When looking at documents that could be fake things like that, for starters, are things that ring alarm bells. 

While I agree with the sentiment, the REAL numbers are people that have died from Covid, I do wonder why an enquiry, as you say below. 

2 minutes ago, Slarti said:

A public enquiry about what?

 

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Even if it's genuine, I still don't see any reason for an enquiry. It's been very clear what the numbers announced mean (within 28 days), so I don't see anything sinister about only 10 in one particular hospital having ONLY covid mentioned as cause of death. Whether "within 28 days" means that the person died due to covud and whether it is a useful measure are different matters. Personally, I don't think it's very useful and neither is "covid mentioned on the death certificate". I think they only use them as they are quick and easy to count, so enable more up to date reporting.
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8 minutes ago, Slarti said:
1 hour ago, faraway saint said:
 

Even if it's genuine, I still don't see any reason for an enquiry. It's been very clear what the numbers announced mean (within 28 days), so I don't see anything sinister about only 10 in one particular hospital having ONLY covid mentioned as cause of death. Whether "within 28 days" means that the person died due to covud and whether it is a useful measure are different matters. Personally, I don't think it's very useful and neither is "covid mentioned on the death certificate". I think they only use them as they are quick and easy to count, so enable more up to date reporting.

This "28 days" has been a discussion point since way back.

Extreme deaths, such as car crashes and other "accidents" have been used to drastically minimise the numbers but there is no doubt that any set of numbers that are used are way over the deaths FROM Covid.

I remember finding an early study from Italy that reckoned only 12% or 18% od deaths were actually caused by Covid.

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13 minutes ago, Slarti said:
1 hour ago, faraway saint said:
 

Even if it's genuine, I still don't see any reason for an enquiry. It's been very clear what the numbers announced mean (within 28 days), so I don't see anything sinister about only 10 in one particular hospital having ONLY covid mentioned as cause of death. Whether "within 28 days" means that the person died due to covud and whether it is a useful measure are different matters. Personally, I don't think it's very useful and neither is "covid mentioned on the death certificate". I think they only use them as they are quick and easy to count, so enable more up to date reporting.

Agreed. It's not a useful metric at all.

Having covid presumably can trigger other things to actual cause a death and accurately attributing that death solely to covid would be nigh on impossible I'd have thought.

Whether we like it or not, the covid death figures are just not going to be accurate one way or another.

I don't see any reason for having a public enquiry.

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It seems logical that if someone dies in an ICU while suffering from Covid then Covid played a large part in the death. As most of the Covid deaths are in older people it is likely that they would have other chronic diseases, hence the reason for the small number of certificates with Covid as the sole cause of death.

In addition if a young person died of kidney or respiratory failure secondary to Covid infection Covid would not appear as the sole cause.

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7 minutes ago, smcc said:

It seems logical that if someone dies in an ICU while suffering from Covid then Covid played a large part in the death. As most of the Covid deaths are in older people it is likely that they would have other chronic diseases, hence the reason for the small number of certificates with Covid as the sole cause of death.

In addition if a young person died of kidney or respiratory failure secondary to Covid infection Covid would not appear as the sole cause.

A massive assumption.

Anyhow, a never ending and subjective point.

Hopefully this tragic year is coming to an end and we can all get back to normal. 

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41 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

A massive assumption.

Anyhow, a never ending and subjective point.

Hopefully this tragic year is coming to an end and we can all get back to normal. 

If someone who tests positive for Covid dies from respiratory failure whilst on a ventilator, then I think we can trust medics in an ICU to identify Covid as the main cause of death.

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, FTOF said:

If someone who tests positive for Covid dies from respiratory failure whilst on a ventilator, then I think we can trust medics in an ICU to identify Covid as the main cause of death.

Or maybe they died from respiratory failure? 

Not straightforward, granted, so best not to speculate.

PS Just realised that's what I've done, along with most of us on this thread. :lol:

Edited by faraway saint
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