oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 5 hours ago, Cookie Monster said: Is that a fact. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 4 hours ago, bazil85 said: This claim is simply unfounded, In my view it seems lessons have been learned from going too fast in previous re-opening. OK then. If this is all based on health data, explain why Orkney is in tier 4 of restrictions with no travel allowed outside their local area despite there not being a single case of covid on the islands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, oaksoft said: OK then. If this is all based on health data, explain why Orkney is in tier 4 of restrictions with no travel allowed outside their local area despite there not being a single case of covid on the islands? To err on the side of caution. Surely over this year+ you have seen how quickly things can change and generally when things have relaxed it's came back to bite governments? Things will relax, there is a roadmap but we do not want to fall at the last hurdle (hopefully) so to speak. What political benefit is there in going against the science and health data? And where is this science and health advice that we should all be just kicking on as per? Edited April 7, 2021 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 31 minutes ago, bazil85 said: To err on the side of caution. I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that at this stage it can't be anything other than political. BTW you can add the Western Isles also at 0 covid cases. Then there's Dumfries and Galloway with just 2 covid cases. In tier 4. Then the entire Scottish Borders area with just 4 covid cases. In tier 4. Shetland Islands with I think just 1 covid case. In tier 4. Argyll and Bute with less than 5 covid cases. In tier 4. That's half the geographical country right there. Closed down almost completely because of fewer than 12 covid cases with most of those being asymptomatic. But seemingly you are not prepared to acknowledge that there might be politics afoot in these decisions. Oh well. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 11 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that at this stage it can't be anything other than political. BTW you can add the Western Isles also at 0 covid cases. Then there's Dumfries and Galloway with just 2 covid cases. In tier 4. Then the entire Scottish Borders area with just 4 covid cases. In tier 4. Shetland Islands with I think just 1 covid case. In tier 4. Argyll and Bute with less than 5 covid cases. In tier 4. That's half the geographical country right there. Closed down almost completely because of fewer than 12 covid cases with most of those being asymptomatic. But seemingly you are not prepared to acknowledge that there might be politics afoot in these decisions. Oh well. Fair enough. I'm originally from an island in Argyll, still have a house there and haven't visited it since the summer.......the people on the island have requested that no-one outwith the island population or people on essential business be allowed on the island until three weeks after the lifting of the travel restrictions on April 26th, they took a vote/poll on the island and that was the outcome. The reasoning behind it being that they managed to keep Covid at bay by not having visitors and, using Barra as an example, want to make sure that continues. It doesn't suit everyone on the island but that has been the collective decision and if, as suggested, the FM will allow islanders to make their own decisions that's what it will be.....I think many of the areas you have quoted (especially Shetland and Western Isles) will be similar due to the age and vulnerability of their populations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 47 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that at this stage it can't be anything other than political. BTW you can add the Western Isles also at 0 covid cases. Then there's Dumfries and Galloway with just 2 covid cases. In tier 4. Then the entire Scottish Borders area with just 4 covid cases. In tier 4. Shetland Islands with I think just 1 covid case. In tier 4. Argyll and Bute with less than 5 covid cases. In tier 4. That's half the geographical country right there. Closed down almost completely because of fewer than 12 covid cases with most of those being asymptomatic. But seemingly you are not prepared to acknowledge that there might be politics afoot in these decisions. Oh well. Fair enough. Some of your Islands are now level 3 Coronavirus (COVID-19): local protection levels - gov.scot (www.gov.scot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that at this stage it can't be anything other than political. BTW you can add the Western Isles also at 0 covid cases. Then there's Dumfries and Galloway with just 2 covid cases. In tier 4. Then the entire Scottish Borders area with just 4 covid cases. In tier 4. Shetland Islands with I think just 1 covid case. In tier 4. Argyll and Bute with less than 5 covid cases. In tier 4. That's half the geographical country right there. Closed down almost completely because of fewer than 12 covid cases with most of those being asymptomatic. But seemingly you are not prepared to acknowledge that there might be politics afoot in these decisions. Oh well. Fair enough.As I work with numerous folk from Argyll and Bute I know for a fact that figure is wrong.I don't know where you got your figures from as in the last 7 days, there has been 7 reported cases according to Public Health Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: OK then. If this is all based on health data, explain why Orkney is in tier 4 of restrictions with no travel allowed outside their local area despite there not being a single case of covid on the islands? To prevent importation of cases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 Aye. That was why Orkney happily prevented non-islanders and those with no REAL business using the Ferries to the Islands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) I 17 minutes ago, insaintee said: To prevent importation of cases 4 minutes ago, antrin said: Aye. That was why Orkney happily prevented non-islanders and those with no REAL business using the Ferries to the Islands. It seems to me that, while oaky's head may be stuffed full of scientific knowledge, all of the common sense has been ejected. Edited April 7, 2021 by smcc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: I'm not disputing that. I'm saying that at this stage it can't be anything other than political. BTW you can add the Western Isles also at 0 covid cases. Then there's Dumfries and Galloway with just 2 covid cases. In tier 4. Then the entire Scottish Borders area with just 4 covid cases. In tier 4. Shetland Islands with I think just 1 covid case. In tier 4. Argyll and Bute with less than 5 covid cases. In tier 4. That's half the geographical country right there. Closed down almost completely because of fewer than 12 covid cases with most of those being asymptomatic. But seemingly you are not prepared to acknowledge that there might be politics afoot in these decisions. Oh well. Fair enough. You say it is all political based and not on health data but that's simply not true. The rest of your post has been the attitude that has largely seen many countries caught out multiple times by not acting cautious or promptly enough. We know how fast a wave can hit and how devastating it can be. We are rolling out a vaccine program, it isn't close to done, it hasn't even hit the 50% mark yet & there remains multiple unknowns over it. What you've quoted is very positive news but it doesn't mean a cautious and slow easing as vaccine rollout ramps up is not a scientifically sensible approach to the countries health. What's the political gain here? We have four different controlling political parties in the home nations and all have arrived at similar conclusions to ease the lockdown, that is mirrored in countless countries the world over at various stages of their journey. I'm struggling to see the pollical gain that governs these decisions you might be getting at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted April 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, smcc said: I It seems to me that, while oaky's head may be stuffed full of scientific knowledge, all of the common sense has been ejected. I'm disappointed it's taken you this long to come to that decision but, well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, WeeBud said: I'm originally from an island in Argyll, still have a house there and haven't visited it since the summer.......the people on the island have requested that no-one outwith the island population or people on essential business be allowed on the island until three weeks after the lifting of the travel restrictions on April 26th, they took a vote/poll on the island and that was the outcome. The reasoning behind it being that they managed to keep Covid at bay by not having visitors and, using Barra as an example, want to make sure that continues. It doesn't suit everyone on the island but that has been the collective decision and if, as suggested, the FM will allow islanders to make their own decisions that's what it will be.....I think many of the areas you have quoted (especially Shetland and Western Isles) will be similar due to the age and vulnerability of their populations. So like I said, the decision is political rather than based on health data. At the moment you can't travel to those areas outwith your own local authority without good reason anyway. Once the law changes I'm not sure what people on the islands can do to stop others visiting if they want to do so. Edited April 7, 2021 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 hour ago, alanb said: Some of your Islands are now level 3 Coronavirus (COVID-19): local protection levels - gov.scot (www.gov.scot) Fair enough. The point still stands though about restrictions being in place despite the data saying that this isn't necessary from a health point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, insaintee said: To prevent importation of cases How does banning the full opening pubs in Orkney, Dumfries and Shetland when they have zero infections cause an importation of cases? That seems a reasonable question to ask. Edited April 7, 2021 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 49 minutes ago, bazil85 said: You say it is all political based and not on health data but that's simply not true. The rest of your post has been the attitude that has largely seen many countries caught out multiple times by not acting cautious or promptly enough. We know how fast a wave can hit and how devastating it can be. We are rolling out a vaccine program, it isn't close to done, it hasn't even hit the 50% mark yet & there remains multiple unknowns over it. What you've quoted is very positive news but it doesn't mean a cautious and slow easing as vaccine rollout ramps up is not a scientifically sensible approach to the countries health. What's the political gain here? We have four different controlling political parties in the home nations and all have arrived at similar conclusions to ease the lockdown, that is mirrored in countless countries the world over at various stages of their journey. I'm struggling to see the pollical gain that governs these decisions you might be getting at. Zero cases baz. Zero cases. Perhaps they are cautiously waiting for cases to drop into negative numbers before reacting. You are welcome to attempt an answer to my question about why pubs are currently not allowed to fully open in those areas when they have zero cases. Edited April 7, 2021 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 52 minutes ago, smcc said: I It seems to me that, while oaky's head may be stuffed full of scientific knowledge, all of the common sense has been ejected. Feel free to contribute something constructive once in a while. It's OK, the government have not banned that activity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 59 minutes ago, antrin said: Aye. That was why Orkney happily prevented non-islanders and those with no REAL business using the Ferries to the Islands. A political decision then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said: As I work with numerous folk from Argyll and Bute I know for a fact that figure is wrong. I don't know where you got your figures from as in the last 7 days, there has been 7 reported cases according to Public Health Scotland. Are you actually splitting hairs over a couple of cases? Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: So like I said, the decision is political rather than based on health data. At the moment you can't travel to those areas outwith your own local authority without good reason anyway. Once the law changes I'm not sure what people on the islands can do to stop others visiting if they want to do so. It’s really about health in all honesty, it’s not there just now and the islanders want to see the effects of the loosening of travel restrictions before allowing free travel to the island......the FM has already said that the islands will have a say in when they are available to everyone. Barra had over 5% of its population contract the virus and had over 10% self isolating in an outbreak over a seven day period.....as I said the age and vulnerability of the island population puts it at more risk than mainland and very few of the islands have hospitals or hospital beds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: A political decision then. If the concept of self-preservation and protecting your loved ones can be construed as "political", then you may be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 Is it not constructive to suggest that you might develop some common sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, oaksoft said: Zero cases baz. Zero cases. Perhaps they are cautiously waiting for cases to drop into negative numbers before reacting. You are welcome to attempt an answer to my question about why pubs are currently not allowed to fully open in those areas when they have zero cases. Wouldn't likely be zero if they opened up in a manner where people were coming in and out and mixing. You open pubs in these areas, you encourage travel to them and the virus spreads. You open pubs in a lot of places like this and don't allow travel, many may not have the business to keep them going as there will be a heavy tourism requirement for a lot I imagine. Edited April 7, 2021 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted April 7, 2021 Report Share Posted April 7, 2021 4 hours ago, oaksoft said: Feel free to contribute something constructive once in a while. It's OK, the government have not banned that activity. Is it not constructive to suggest that you might develop some common sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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