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faraway saint

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12 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Wouldn't likely be zero if they opened up in a manner where people were coming in and out and mixing. 

You open pubs in these areas, you encourage travel to them and the virus spreads. You open pubs in a lot of places like this and don't allow travel, many may not have the business to keep them going as there will be a heavy tourism requirement for a lot I imagine. 

OK so that is called not trusting the public and is a decision based on politics not health data. That's all I'm saying.

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13 hours ago, WeeBud said:

It’s really about health in all honesty, it’s not there just now and the islanders want to see the effects of the loosening of travel restrictions before allowing free travel to the island......the FM has already said that the islands will have a say in when they are available to everyone. Barra had over 5% of its population contract the virus and had over 10% self isolating in an outbreak over a seven day period.....as I said the age and vulnerability of the island population puts it at more risk than mainland and very few of the islands have hospitals or hospital beds. 

So why are the pubs not fully open on the islands if nobody is allowed to visit those islands and there are no cases there?

Why are there any restrictions at all at zero cases with nobody allowed in?

Edited by oaksoft
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15 hours ago, oaksoft said:

How does banning the full opening pubs in Orkney, Dumfries and Shetland when they have zero infections cause an importation of cases? That seems a reasonable question to ask.

People travel from the mainland to go to the pub. We have "covid" tourism now.  

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

OK so that is called not trusting the public and is a decision based on politics not health data. That's all I'm saying.

Do you not think fully trusting the public is a tiny bit idealistic given the last 14-15 months? We are also pretty close to people being allowed to travel for self catering breaks I believe, if a bunch of Scotland has open hospitality, people could technically legally go to these areas and use the pubs, I would bet they would in large numbers compared to places without open pubs. Again spreading the virus. 

For me it's where you draw the line regarding attendance to pubs in these areas, mitigation of such pent up want for many over the last year and management of the cost and reward for so many businesses in so many of these areas, especially if reliant on tourism. 

You can claim it's all political if you want but there is certainly economic and public health concerns that are factoring into keeping these places closed. 

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

So why are the pubs not fully open on the islands if nobody is allowed to visit those islands and there are no cases there?

Why are there any restrictions at all at zero cases with nobody allowed in?

Because "essential workers" are allowed onto the islands and generally stay in the hotels which are attached to the local pubs. If the pubs are open to all then the "essential workers" will mix with the locals in a bar with alcohol flowing and, as always with alcohol, peoples inhibitions and awareness of their environment will drop.....it really is pretty simple!!

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The government's gammonesque policies wrt the pandemic from March-December 2020 were a disaster and the reason for many of the 150,000 Covid deaths the UK has suffered - that's all been pointed out before.

Since then a combination of a successful vaccination program and a third lockdown has brought the situation back under control. We currently have a route out of Lockdown "dates based on data" which I see no need to change.

It would've seemed incredible 3/4 month's ago but our leader and self-styled "King of the World" is likely to come out of this smelling of roses!:king🌺

Edited by Bud the Baker
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47 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

The government's gammonesque policies wrt the pandemic from March-December 2020 were, like most countries, trying to deal with the unknown, and one of many reasons for a number of the 126,927 Covid deaths the UK has suffered - that's all been pointed out before.

Since then a combination of a successful vaccination program and a third lockdown has brought the situation back under control. We currently have a route out of Lockdown "dates based on data" which I see no need to change.

It would've seemed incredible 3/4 month's ago but our leader and self-styled "King of the World" is likely to come out of this smelling of roses!:king🌺

A few alterations, wouldn't want your one sided view to be seen as "Facts".

As for your last sentence, well, while some of the utter drivel aimed at Johnson has been, frankly, embarrassing, it's also ridiculous to suggest everything that has happened previously should make him out some sort of hero. 

The last year, or so, has been a f**k up in proportions I hope we never see again, some avoidable, some, unfortunately, not. 

This GREAT thread is a classic, lots of views, lots of drivel, everything that makes a thread great, but it's also a reflection of people's views/feeling in a terrible time. 

Can't wait for it, this thread, to drop down and into the archives of the forum. 

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7 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

A few alterations, wouldn't want your one sided view to be seen as "Facts".

As for your last sentence, well, while some of the utter drivel aimed at Johnson has been, frankly, embarrassing, it's also ridiculous to suggest everything that has happened previously should make him out some sort of hero. 

The last year, or so, has been a f**k up in proportions I hope we never see again, some avoidable, some, unfortunately, not. 

This GREAT thread is a classic, lots of views, lots of drivel, everything that makes a thread great, but it's also a reflection of people's views/feeling in a terrible time. 

Can't wait for it, this thread, to drop down and into the archives of the forum. 

And we can get some focus on the real issues, like what brilliant banter it is that SMISA want £1,500 for a panda suit... 

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33 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

A few alterations, wouldn't want your one sided view to be seen as "Facts".

As for your last sentence, well, while some of the utter drivel aimed at Johnson has been, frankly, embarrassing, it's also ridiculous to suggest everything that has happened previously should make him out some sort of hero. 

The last year, or so, has been a f**k up in proportions I hope we never see again, some avoidable, some, unfortunately, not. 

This GREAT thread is a classic, lots of views, lots of drivel, everything that makes a thread great, but it's also a reflection of people's views/feeling in a terrible time. 

Can't wait for it, this thread, to drop down and into the archives of the forum. 

The 150,000 deaths is not my "one sided view" it's the ONS figure and shared by many leading scientists who have no axe to grind, unlike the government who after a number of changes conveniently settled on the lowest figure - in reality as I said the total currently stands at 150,000 UK Covid deaths.

As for spinning BJ as "some sorta hero" it's already happening, there were no mistakes. just unfortunate decisions that can only be criticized with the benefit of hindsight (Keir Starmer = Captain Hindsight) and a vaccination success which could not have happened without Brexit, conveniently forgetting that the program started before we "left" @antrin and implemented under EU emergency protocols

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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

The 150,000 deaths is not my "one sided view" it's the ONS figure and shared by many leading scientists who have no axe to grind, unlike the government who after a number of changes conveniently settled on the lowest figure - in reality as I said the total currently stands at 150,000 UK Covid deaths.

As for spinning BJ as "some sorta hero" it's already happening, there were no mistakes. just unfortunate decisions that can only be criticized with the benefit of hindsight (Keir Starmer = Captain Hindsight) and a vaccination success which could not have happened without Brexit, conveniently forgetting that the program started before we "left" @antrin and implemented under EU emergency protocols

Who use a method of measuring that's flawed, IMO, but you CHOOSE to believe the worst figure as it's always suited your agenda. :wink:

We both agree hindsight has been used by many, in government and the general public, who, fortunately haven't been in the position to HAVE to make decisions at a time when it was almost a "lose/lose" situation. 

Anyway, here's to the day I can burn my fecking masks as, when it's deemed the right time, I, for one, won't be continuing with this stupid fashion accessory. :thumbs2

 

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39 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Who use a method of measuring that's flawed, IMO, but you CHOOSE to believe the worst figure as it's always suited your agenda. :wink:

We both agree hindsight has been used by many, in government and the general public, who, fortunately haven't been in the position to HAVE to make decisions at a time when it was almost a "lose/lose" situation. 

Anyway, here's to the day I can burn my fecking masks as, when it's deemed the right time, I, for one, won't be continuing with this stupid fashion accessory. :thumbs2

 

Everyone's got an agenda, even you I daresay. My opinion is that the government's preferred count is wrong and I've cited organizations and Scientists who have provided a more accurate one, I trust them above a proven liar with a reason to minimize the death toll and his gammon acolytes. Once again I'll ask the question you've never answered :rolleyes: - why would the ONS & the scientists who've backed them lie?

None of these blunders below can be put down to hindsight

  • The "non policy" of herd immunity that meant we went into Lockdown1 too late
  • Not making mask wearing compulsory in enclosed spaces compulsory coming out of Lockdown1.
  • Going into Lockdown2 too late (go back to Oct4/p323 of this thread) 
  • England coming out of their second lockdown too soon and putting London into Tier2 when the new variant was exploding down there - how many lives did that cost BJ?
  • The Christmas fiasco (again go back to Oct4/p323 of this thread)

Any suggestions that the Covid getting worse over the winter was not foreseeable/inevitable and that the peak would be in the "flu season" Jan/Feb are apologies and not very convincing ones at that!

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1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

Everyone's got an agenda, even you I daresay. My opinion is that the government's preferred count is wrong and I've cited organizations and Scientists who have provided a more accurate one, I trust them above a proven liar with a reason to minimize the death toll and his gammon acolytes. Once again I'll ask the question you've never answered :rolleyes: - why would the ONS & the scientists who've backed them lie?

None of these blunders below can be put down to hindsight

  • The "non policy" of herd immunity that meant we went into Lockdown1 too late
  • Not making mask wearing compulsory in enclosed spaces compulsory coming out of Lockdown1.
  • Going into Lockdown2 too late (go back to Oct4/p323 of this thread) 
  • England coming out of their second lockdown too soon and putting London into Tier2 when the new variant was exploding down there - how many lives did that cost BJ?
  • The Christmas fiasco (again go back to Oct4/p323 of this thread)

Any suggestions that the Covid getting worse over the winter was not foreseeable/inevitable and that the peak would be in the "flu season" Jan/Feb are apologies and not very convincing ones at that!

Who said they lied?  :blink:

Blunders, aye, probably the same as 90% of every government in the world. 

Yes, they CAN be seen as blunders in HINDSIGHT as they were done using whatever data was available at the time. 

You do remember the amount of "scientists" that were coming out of the woodwork with various theories? 

Old ground, thanks for playing...............................onwards an upwards. :byebye

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1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Who said they lied?  :blink:

Blunders, aye, probably the same as 90% of every government in the world. 

Yes, they CAN be seen as blunders in HINDSIGHT as they were done using whatever data was available at the time. 

You do remember the amount of "scientists" that were coming out of the woodwork with various theories? 

Old ground, thanks for playing...............................onwards an upwards. :byebye

Flawed/Lied  - OK I'll concede the semantics - now why would they produce incorrect figures? :blink:

All the examples I gave in the previous post were predictable & were predicted, up until Lockdown3 the government consistently chose the gammon options - which cost people's lives. Different politicians in different countries making different mistakes doesn't change this..

Old ground indeed but then you've never had any convincing answers. :byebye

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14 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Flawed/Lied  - OK I'll concede the semantics - now why would they produce incorrect figures? :blink:

All the examples I gave in the previous post were predictable & were predicted, up until Lockdown3 the government consistently chose the gammon options - which cost people's lives. Different politicians in different countries making different mistakes doesn't change this..

Old ground indeed but then you've never had any convincing answers. :byebye

FFS, how many times, they use a different method of measurement, how many times or are you having a memory fart? 

Yawn, aye so you fail, which is a common trait of yours, to notice the government acted on advice available at the time.

Again, you always overlook the part that the good old British public played in this fiasco from day one.

As for answers, all you do is regurgitate unanswerable gripes so their is no "answer", certainly none that would suffice for the never ending political point scoring game you love to play. 

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32 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

FFS, how many times, they use a different method of measurement, how many times or are you having a memory fart? 

Yawn, aye so you fail, which is a common trait of yours, to notice the government acted on advice available at the time.

Again, you always overlook the part that the good old British public played in this fiasco from day one.

As for answers, all you do is regurgitate unanswerable gripes so their is no "answer", certainly none that would suffice for the never ending political point scoring game you love to play. 

How many times to I have to remind you that there is no benefit for the ONS in providing inaccurate figures while there is clearly a benefit to the government in providing artificially low figures? Why do you think the government's figure is more accurate and once again why would the ONS provide inaccurate figures and numerous respected scientist back them as being correct? 

Even the Daily Mail knows which figure is correct...

UK's real Covid death toll hits 150,000, according to the Office for National Statistics | Daily Mail Online

Quote

 

UK's real Covid death toll hits 150,000

****************************

Yeah, sure the public at large haven't been blameless during the pandemic, I don't think I've ever said otherwise, but given the clusterfuck of gammon prevarication the government chose to follow during the first 9 months of the pandemic I still say the bulk of the blame like at the top.

Are  the following unanswerable gripes, saying we should have followed the majority advice of the government's scientific advisors all along and that now we have a roadmap out of lockdown we should stick to it? I'd say No & No.

 

Edited by Bud the Baker
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On 4/6/2021 at 4:46 PM, faraway saint said:

When I was down the town earlier I drove passed a wee "back street" barber with about 10 people queueing up outside.

Quite why they were so desperate for a haircut to be standing outside for quite some time is beyond me, not as if they have anywhere special to be going.

Never mind, nice to see the local small business's getting some income. 

I drove past the same barber yesterday, 9 people (I counted very carefully) waiting outside, couldn't tell how many were inside.

It seems officialdom hasn't reached Arbroath as yet. :rolleyes:

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17 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

How many times to I have to remind you that there is no benefit for the ONS in providing inaccurate figures while there is clearly a benefit to the government in providing artificially low figures? Why do you think the government's figure is more accurate and once again why would the ONS provide inaccurate figures and numerous respected scientist back them as being correct? 

Even the Daily Mail knows which figure is correct...

UK's real Covid death toll hits 150,000, according to the Office for National Statistics | Daily Mail Online

****************************

Yeah, sure the public at large haven't been blameless during the pandemic, I don't think I've ever said otherwise, but given the clusterfuck of gammon prevarication the government chose to follow during the first 9 months of the pandemic I still say the bulk of the blame like at the top.

Are  the following unanswerable gripes, saying we should have followed the majority advice of the government's scientific advisors all along and that now we have a roadmap out of lockdown we should stick to it? I'd say No & No.

 

4 massive questions Johnson wont be accountable for until the Tory party decides to stab him in back 

Delay in initial Lockdown

PPE and the dodgy contracts to pals

Delay in Late Autumn Lockdown

Allowing Xmas mixing

 

 

Personally I think Brexit will be the eventual Tory downfall as you cant get a vaccine for that

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

4 massive questions Johnson wont be accountable for until the Tory party decides to stab him in back 

Delay in initial Lockdown

PPE and the dodgy contracts to pals

Delay in Late Autumn Lockdown

Allowing Xmas mixing

 

 

Personally I think Brexit will be the eventual Tory downfall as you cant get a vaccine for that

 

 

 

There would have been less deaths if there had been no lockdowns.

Lockdowns spared the middle class lefties and their useful idiots (you being a useful idiot) and killed the vulnerable.

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On 4/8/2021 at 12:47 PM, Bud the Baker said:

The government's gammonesque policies wrt the pandemic from March-December 2020 were a disaster and the reason for many of the 150,000 Covid deaths the UK has suffered - that's all been pointed out before.

Since then a combination of a successful vaccination program and a third lockdown has brought the situation back under control. We currently have a route out of Lockdown "dates based on data" which I see no need to change.

It would've seemed incredible 3/4 month's ago but our leader and self-styled "King of the World" is likely to come out of this smelling of roses:king!🌺

He must be a dancing a little jig of joy at today's news.

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