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2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

There's perhaps an argument on why a faith is required for them to do such good deeds or why the fact they believe in a god is relevant to said deeds. 

Who said a faith is required?  doing something good that happens to coincide with your religious beliefs is no different from doing it because you have been taught.

you are only talking about someone following an example. I dont belong to any religion but respect the fact that so many people follow their teachings and help others.

the relevance lies in the point made by Gilhooley, basically dissing a whole swathe of people because of the misdeeds of someone who purports to follow, but clearly doesn't subscribe to the values, of a particular belief.  Wiles is an opportunist playing on people's fears and prejudices and might as well have worn the clothes of a politician or social activist as those of a christian.  His behaviour shouldn't reflect on the millions of decent people that call themselves christians

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Who said a faith is required?  doing something good that happens to coincide with your religious beliefs is no different from doing it because you have been taught.
you are only talking about someone following an example. I dont belong to any religion but respect the fact that so many people follow their teachings and help others.
the relevance lies in the point made by Gilhooley, basically dissing a whole swathe of people because of the misdeeds of someone who purports to follow, but clearly doesn't subscribe to the values, of a particular belief.  Wiles is an opportunist playing on people's fears and prejudices and might as well have worn the clothes of a politician or social activist as those of a christian.  His behaviour shouldn't reflect on the millions of decent people that call themselves christians
If they were truly following the teachings they would be stoning unruly children and getting their slaves from the nations around them.

One of the main problems with religion, especially Christianity, is that followers believe that they get their morals from their god/book but they really (mostly) act in a morally superior way to the teachings, showing that they are actually more moral than the thing they think they get their morals from. The nutters from the likes of the Westboro Baptist Church and the NIFB are actually following the teachings closer than most "mainstream" Christians.

I think the main point is that it doesn't take religion/faith/teaching for people to help others, it takes compasion and that is a human trait, not the sole preserve of people of religion/faith.
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38 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

Who said a faith is required?  doing something good that happens to coincide with your religious beliefs is no different from doing it because you have been taught.

you are only talking about someone following an example. I dont belong to any religion but respect the fact that so many people follow their teachings and help others.

the relevance lies in the point made by Gilhooley, basically dissing a whole swathe of people because of the misdeeds of someone who purports to follow, but clearly doesn't subscribe to the values, of a particular belief.  Wiles is an opportunist playing on people's fears and prejudices and might as well have worn the clothes of a politician or social activist as those of a christian.  His behaviour shouldn't reflect on the millions of decent people that call themselves christians

It’s a can of worms subject, personally I don’t think Christian beliefs or values are as virtuous as you make out.
 

It’s a faith (like practically all others) born out of intolerance & the barbaric practices of a less developed people. 

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It’s a can of worms subject, personally I don’t think Christian beliefs or values are as virtuous as you make out.
 
It’s a faith (like practically all others) born out of intolerance & the barbaric practices of a less developed people. 
It is, is it?
Stated as fact!
Less developed than what?
Low EQ narcissists who insist on the last word on a football forum every time?

Nobody has said good deeds are unique to people with a belief, but if that belief motivates good deeds, I don't have a problem.

Or is it only live and let live as long as it is something we approve of?

There is no doubt that bad things happen in the name of religion... but bad things happen in the name of freedom all over the world.

In the name of non religious beliefs.

In the name of animal rights!

Why single out "Christian beliefs"?
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22 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

It is, is it?
Stated as fact!
Less developed than what?

Less developed in general terms compared to people today - that is a statement of fact by many confirmable parameters. 

Low EQ narcissists who insist on the last word on a football forum every time?

You're letting your upset yet again get the better of you here. 

Nobody has said good deeds are unique to people with a belief, but if that belief motivates good deeds, I don't have a problem.

Nor do I, please re-read and make an effort to understand my points. 

Or is it only live and let live as long as it is something we approve of?

This ties into intolerance for me. Live & let live isn’t my view for those with fundamental Christian beliefs because they are factually intolerant. I can tolerate a lot but I won’t tolerate intolerance, I don’t see why we should. 

There is no doubt that bad things happen in the name of religion... but bad things happen in the name of freedom all over the world.

I agree. 

In the name of non religious beliefs.

Again agree 
In the name of animal rights!

Yet again. 

Why single out "Christian beliefs"?

I'm not, it’s the subject that was being discussed. Feel like I can’t win here, if I had responded with ‘there are major human rights issues in China’ your pal would likely have accused me of going off topic…   

 

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9 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

My "pal"?

Oh... Your imaginary club that gangs up against you as opposed to one of a number who see through you! emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png

You do tend to stick up for quite a lot of people that get into a back & forth with me. The subject is practically always irrelevant. 

7 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

"that is a statement of fact by many confirmable parameters."

Really?

Go on then... I'm actually interested for once! This should be interesting...

Yes, society today are far more developed than over the time period the Christian religion formed in many senses. We have a far stronger grasp of science, human history & sociological impacts on the world. Do you honestly disagree with this & think people as a whole were at a further stage of development in biblical times? 
 

‘Really, go on then’ the way you have responded, I don’t know what part of my post you’re replying to with this ask. If you clarify, I will.
 

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Yes, society today are far more developed than over the time period the Christian religion formed in many senses. We have a far stronger grasp of science, human history & sociological impacts on the world. Do you honestly disagree with this & think people as a whole were at a further stage of development in biblical times? 
 
‘Really, go on then’ the way you have responded, I don’t know what part of my post you’re replying to with this ask. If you clarify, I will.
 
that is a statement of fact by many confirmable parameters...

Not seen a single "statement of fact".

As usual, just your opinions stated as such.
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1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:

that is a statement of fact by many confirmable parameters...

Not seen a single "statement of fact".

As usual, just your opinions stated as such.

Collectively we are far more scientifically progressed, aware of the evolution of humanity & sociological impacts on the world in 2021 than people were during biblical times. That is fact, do you genuinely disagree with it? 

I made a similar point on here yesterday, how some cry their eyes out when people make factual points. Your proving a great example for me. 😂

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Collectively we are far more scientifically progressed, aware of the evolution of humanity & sociological impacts on the world in 2021 than people were during biblical times. That is fact, do you genuinely disagree with it? 
I made a similar point on here yesterday, how some cry their eyes out when people make factual points. Your proving a great example for me. [emoji23]
And there it goes....

No facts so you go on a personal attack. True to form!

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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2 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

And there it goes....

No facts so you go on a personal attack. True to form!

emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png

It was fact, I showed you why. 
 

No personal attack, just pointing out you’re proving my point by getting upset. A personal attack was part of your first response to me today. 

Edited by bazil85
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It was fact, I showed you why. 
 
No personal attack, just pointing out you’re proving my point by getting upset. A personal attack was part of your first response to me today. 


It was fact, I showed you why. 
 
No personal attack, just pointing out you’re proving my point by getting upset. A personal attack was part of your first response to me today. 


No it wasn't.
No it isn't.
Your opinion. No more.

True to form deflection.

"that is a statement of fact by many confirmable parameters."

STATEMENT OF FACT.

That was what you said...

Quote the actual sources, otherwise, it is your opinion!
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8 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:


No it wasn't.
No it isn't.
Your opinion. No more.

True to form deflection.

"that is a statement of fact by many confirmable parameters."

STATEMENT OF FACT.

That was what you said...

Quote the actual sources, otherwise, it is your opinion!

 

 

 

Ah well, agree to disagree. My OPINION is they are facts. You don’t have to agree on that. 
 

No deflection, if you think I haven’t covered anything feel free to let me know. (I already asked you to do this on a point where it wasn’t clear what you were questioning, you didn’t) 

Sigh, what sources would you like to show we have more scientific knowledge as a species in 2021 than we did in biblical times? 🤣

Edited by bazil85
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Ah well, agree to disagree. My OPINION is they are facts. You don’t have to agree on that. 
 
No deflection, if you think I haven’t covered anything feel free to let me know. (I already asked you to do this on a point where it wasn’t clear what you were questioning, you didn’t) 
Sigh, what sources would you like to show we have more scientific knowledge as a species in 2021 than we did in biblical times? [emoji1787]
So you finally admit that what you stated as fact is indeed simply your opinion.

At last. [emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]
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Nope, that’s not what I said. Word spinning won’t get you the victory you seem to desperately need. [emoji106]
Beep... Beep... Beep... Beep...
Warning.... Brazil reversing!

Spinning is your speciality... Even if you cocked up here.

You admitted that something you claimed as fact was simply your opinion.

It's there for all to see... Not that anyone is interested in what you have to say.
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8 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Beep... Beep... Beep... Beep...
Warning.... Brazil reversing!

Spinning is your speciality... Even if you cocked up here.

You admitted that something you claimed as fact was simply your opinion.

It's there for all to see... Not that anyone is interested in what you have to say.

Incorrect. 
 

Also incorrect. 
 

Nope it is fact, I just played one of your little word games. Speaking of deflection though, I have now asked you several times what you need from me without you telling me. Deliberate deflection or is it wine Wednesday maybe? 
 

What’s there for all to see is me once again aggravating you with my mere presence. I once again make a balanced point & it leads to tears. 
 

I tried to bury the hatched with you but you’re just incapable of moving on. Very sad.  

Edited by bazil85
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Incorrect. 
 
Also incorrect. 
 
Nope it is fact, I just played one of your little word games. Speaking of deflection though, I have now asked you several times what you need from me without you telling me. Deliberate deflection or is it wine Wednesday maybe? 
 
What’s there for all to see is me once again aggravating you with my mere presence. I once again make a balanced point & it leads to tears. 
 
I tried to bury the hatched with you but you’re just incapable of moving on. Very sad.  
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Your facts are your opinions only. Fact. I can quote you!
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1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:

Your opinion... As you so very clearly stated.... or did you lie?
Maybe you didn't mean what you said and we shouldn't take you literally? You tried that one before too!
No shame. I'll grant you that! emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png

 

Just now, BuddieinEK said:

emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png

Your facts are your opinions only. Fact. I can quote you!

You won’t win this BEK, you know I’ll keep going & eventually it’ll get to the ‘I’m going to stop for everyone else’s sake’ stage, even though everyone can see you (yet again) have started this back & forth. 
 

The points I made were fact, I won’t change my views on that because it is absurd to think otherwise. I will respond to you as often as you like to satisfy that rage that lives inside you but hear my potential counter proposals. 
 

1. Make good on your previous promise & stop engaging with me.

 2. Move past all of this, draw a line under it & address my posts as you wish in the future without pre-judging based on a username. If you want you can even claim it as a ‘bigger person’ stance. 

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You won’t win this BEK, you know I’ll keep going & eventually it’ll get to the ‘I’m going to stop for everyone else’s sake’ stage, even though everyone can see you (yet again) have started this back & forth. 
 
The points I made were fact, I won’t change my views on that because it is absurd to think otherwise. I will respond to you as often as you like to satisfy that rage that lives inside you but hear my potential counter proposals. 
 
1. Make good on your previous promise & stop engaging with me.
 2. Move past all of this, draw a line under it & address my posts as you wish in the future without pre-judging based on a username. If you want you can even claim it as a ‘bigger person’ stance. 
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

YOU are going to stop for everyone else's sake?

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji12][emoji23]

Yet again, you take things said against you and claim them as your own.

"Win"?

I'm not interested in "winning".

I've shown you up.

You admitted that what you stated as fact was simply your opinion.

You did. Didn't you? Deny it?

Oh? Sorry... That would involve you having the last word and we all know that you never crave not demand the last word! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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