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Just now, stlucifer said:

That's ok then. Sorry for calling them out then.

 

No its not ok but its reality and always has been , you would be far better focusing your mind on why they got elected with a huge majority and then working out how to remove them !

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56 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

No its not ok but its reality and always has been , you would be far better focusing your mind on why they got elected with a huge majority and then working out how to remove them !

I have a fair idea how they got into power. They had a buzz phrase, "Get Brexit Done", while not explaining what it actually meant. And the media didn't scrutinise that side, while constantly highlighting the negative of the other side. For one thing, claiming anti Semitism when, in some cases, it was calling out the Israeli state's persecution of the Palestinians. Johnson got a free pass from the British news outlets. As for how to remove them. That would be a complete waste of my time unless a massive amount of seats become available soon. I am perfectly capable of choosing what to focus my mind on. Silence is the best way to let governments go unchecked. I know this is merely a wee forum but that doesn't  mean I can't put my point of view forward.

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23 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I have a fair idea how they got into power. They had a buzz phrase, "Get Brexit Done", while not explaining what it actually meant. And the media didn't scrutinise that side, while constantly highlighting the negative of the other side. For one thing, claiming anti Semitism when, in some cases, it was calling out the Israeli state's persecution of the Palestinians. Johnson got a free pass from the British news outlets. As for how to remove them. That would be a complete waste of my time unless a massive amount of seats become available soon. I am perfectly capable of choosing what to focus my mind on. Silence is the best way to let governments go unchecked. I know this is merely a wee forum but that doesn't  mean I can't put my point of view forward.

Blaming the media is pointless for Tory opposition parties that will never change. 

I think the Tories got elected on a lot more than Brexit. 

Buzz phrases are used by all parties without explaining what they really mean.

Labour had them too its just that the electorate ignored them.

Nobody is stopping you putting your opinion either but it also doesn't mean it can't be challenged.

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1 minute ago, lenziebud said:

Blaming the media is pointless for Tory opposition parties that will never change. 

I think the Tories got elected on a lot more than Brexit. 

Buzz phrases are used by all parties without explaining what they really mean.

Labour had them too its just that the electorate ignored them.

Nobody is stopping you putting your opinion either but it also doesn't mean it can't be challenged.

You weren't challenging my viewpoint. You were telling me what to focus on. Not even a subtle difference.

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2 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

You weren't challenging my viewpoint. You were telling me what to focus on. Not even a subtle difference.

No I was challenging your viewpoint as well as subtly hinting at what it might be better for Tory opposition to focus on rather than the easy target of calling Boris Johnston a clown, calling out the UK press etc which gets you nowhere

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1 hour ago, stlucifer said:

That may be but this is a government which shamelessly changes the criteria midway through in order to look at though it’s winning. They did so with their announcement of the amount of PPE that they’d distributed. A hugely impressive large number was announced, and then it turned out that each glove had been counted individually, and items like paper tissues and cleaning products which aren’t usually considered to be PPE had been added to the totals in order to inflate them artificially and make this inept bunch of incompetents seem like they were doing some good. 

So add to your statement. There are those who think telling lies is the way to solve the problem.

Every political party in every country throughout history does stuff like this.

It's why I never get too worked up about what politicians do or say. They have almost no impact on the day to day lives of most people.

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Every single country in the world is suffering PPE shortages.
In every crisis there are those who knuckle down to try and solve the problems right in front of them and there are those useless, screeching, noisy f**kers who flap around, getting in everyone's way frantically trying to find someone to blame.
4 years ago, in preparation for a flu epidemic- both UK and Scottish Governments did a study independently.

Both highlighted insufficient PPE supplies!

Four years to take action... Nothing.

I call that criminal neglect!

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Just now, BuddieinEK said:

4 years ago, in preparation for a flu epidemic- both UK and Scottish Governments did a study independently.

Both highlighted insufficient PPE supplies!

Four years to take action... Nothing.

I call that criminal neglect!

Agreed but no country has escaped this - even those who were supposedly ready for a pandemic. The most you could ever realistically store would be a few weeks of supplies at most and even then you wouldn't have that spread equally around the country. Too much is being made of this IMO.

If chucking blame around is what you want to do then I agree that the SNP government are just as much to blame as the Tories for Scotland being short.

It's just such a waste of time though in the grand scheme of things. Regardless of how prepared we were, we'd still be in short supply now along with everyone else.

Both governments took a calculated risk.

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4 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

4 years ago, in preparation for a flu epidemic- both UK and Scottish Governments did a study independently.

Both highlighted insufficient PPE supplies!

Four years to take action... Nothing.

I call that criminal neglect!

Wouldn't preparing for a flu epidemic not have been the same proportion as the current epidemic? 

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I'm really not interested in political comparisons.  the point is, BJ is currently trying to tug the nations heartstrings and has nothing to say about finding the PPE that poorly paid care workers and nurses who haven't had a salary increase for years need as they are used as 21st century cannon fodder.

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1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Wouldn't preparing for a flu epidemic not have been the same proportion as the current epidemic? 

well the NHS regularly gets overrun during a bad flu season and there is never any contingency from the government.

Interesting to note that the estimated effect of seasonal flu virus is to prevent the equivalent of 44% of cases that actually occur, for the price of an edinburgh pint you can take care of yourself pretty effectively.

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2 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I'm really not interested in political comparisons.  the point is, BJ is currently trying to tug the nations heartstrings and has nothing to say about finding the PPE that poorly paid care workers and nurses who haven't had a salary increase for years need as they are used as 21st century cannon fodder.

Eh? 

You're trying to tug the heartstrings with this blatant lie.

Also the nurses are paid a reasonable salary, before any overtime enters the equation. 

I don't begrudge them a penny but don't start this bleeding heart shite. 

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50 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

I have a fair idea how they got into power. They had a buzz phrase, "Get Brexit Done", 

The Tories would be in power even without Brexit.

The left need to come up with a better strategy than framing politics in terms of "good versus evil".

It's very odd to hear Labour supporters for example talking about bastard Tories killing poor people via benefits cuts and Universal Credit policies, when the last time their party was in power they oversaw the massacre of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Fortunately we have the SNP up here as an option. We get less extreme politics up here because we don't have such confrontational politics. They rule largely by compromise with other parties.

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Given we were running austerity budgets what do we think the response of any minister would have been to a claim that we didn't have enough PPE for a potential pandemic. 

I think I know the answer.

As I have said previously all parties ran in 2010 and 2014 elections on austerity budgets, who voted for them ?

 

Edited by lenziebud

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9 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

I'm really not interested in political comparisons.  the point is, BJ is currently trying to tug the nations heartstrings and has nothing to say about finding the PPE that poorly paid care workers and nurses who haven't had a salary increase for years need as they are used as 21st century cannon fodder.

What on earth does the size of their wage packets have to do with anything?

 

 

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Every single country in the world is suffering PPE shortages.
In every crisis there are those who knuckle down to try and solve the problems right in front of them and there are those useless, screeching, noisy f**kers who flap around, getting in everyone's way frantically trying to find someone to blame.


I wouldn't describe knowingly breaking health and safety law as knuckling down.

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1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said:


I wouldn't describe knowingly breaking health and safety law as knuckling down.

 

Then you need to be looking at the SNP and every other government in every other country.

Are you prepared to attack the SNP?

ETA. Hang on. Which specific Health and Safety Law are they knowingly breaking?

Edited by oaksoft

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

The Tories would be in power even without Brexit.

The left need to come up with a better strategy than framing politics in terms of "good versus evil".

It's very odd to hear Labour supporters for example talking about bastard Tories killing poor people via benefits cuts and Universal Credit policies, when the last time their party was in power they oversaw the massacre of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Fortunately we have the SNP up here as an option. We get less extreme politics up here because we don't have such confrontational politics. They rule largely by compromise with other parties.

I did expand on my assertions. I know the labour party shot themselves in the foot, (No Michael pun intended for the older ones among us), but the national media didn't help. I believe if they had been more inclined to question the tories, and BJ in particular, the election may have been a lot closer as less labour supporters would have defected. This  is my opinion obviously but, if you look at the election previous labour held their own. There is no doubt in my mind that Corbyn was scrutinised far more than Teflon Johnson.

ETA. I agree we were fortunate to have another choice. It's just a shame that they are ineffective in Westminster due to the majority the tories have.

Edited by stlucifer

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Todays numbers, as normal on a Sunday, down considerably to 315.

The lowest Sunday figure to date. (since things got serious in up late March)

Aye, the peak has passed and slowly seeing a drop in the average numbers.

The concern is what will happen when things are officially relaxed? 

No doubt the government will "get it" for relaxing things too soon.

This is a no win situation, there has to be a change and this will result in a rise in fatalities. 

Baz will be livid. 

 

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Then you need to be looking at the SNP and every other government in every other country.
Are you prepared to attack the SNP?
ETA. Hang on. Which specific Health and Safety Law are they knowingly breaking?


My reply was to your response to beyond our ken's post stating that employers (NHS) were breaking H&S law by asking staff to work without sufficient PPE.

BOK quoted Health and Safety at Work etc Act however Management Regs and PPE regs would also apply based on what BOK typed in their post.

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1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:


 

 


My reply was to your response to beyond our ken's post stating that employers (NHS) were breaking H&S law by asking staff to work without sufficient PPE.

BOK quoted Health and Safety at Work etc Act however Management Regs and PPE regs would also apply based on what BOK typed in their post.

 

:snore

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