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22 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

ONS stats this morning show 12,932 excess deaths during the pandemic for England & Wales alone. Add in Scotland and the fact that many of the covid deaths were not really covid deaths then you’ll get to way more than 20,000

https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1931

So what's killing people in care homes in such large numbers if it isn't Covid19? What's the "unexplained" lock-down related cause? It's far more likely that the deaths have not been diagnosed and as such reported properly. 

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22 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Correct, my apologies. It’s 250 million

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/global-hunger-could-be-next-big-impact-of-coronavirus-pandemic

blood on your hands baz. 
 

shameful 

Could

Written over a month ago and doesn't show that it is happening. You cherry-pick what you want and ignore the words you don't like could. 

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20 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

For you @bazil85

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-way-covid-deaths-are-being-counted-is-a-national-scandal

Thousands of expendable lives you’ve thrown under a bus baz

shameful 

The excessive deaths show that Covid19 is hasting many people to an early grave, you seem okay with that. You still haven't shown a shred of evidence that more deaths have been caused by lockdown. 

No could or unexplained propaganda news stories please, just hard evidence the lockdown is killing more people?. Please and thank you. 

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Guest TPAFKATS



ONS stats out today
England & Wales care home deaths
Total in past 9 weeks
covid-mentioned 12,724
 lockdown (excess where covid not mentioned) 13,216
 
Lockdown killing more folk in care homes than the virus
End the lockdown 


How is lockdown killing folk in care homes?
How would extra folk getting into care homes save life's of residents?
What extra liberties would the residents have if there wasn't a lockdown?

#thichasfuch
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Yet ANOTHER boffin giving us conflicting advice..................... @Bud the Baker

This has been one of the constants since this started, so called "experts" spouting out their version of safe advice.

The highlighted bit was heavily flouted early doors, before the major lockdown was in place. 

Professor Robert Dingwall, a Government adviser on Covid-19, said scientists backing the two-metre rule were relying too heavily on "experimental lab work that doesn't translate into a real world setting".

Prof Dingwall, an advocate of reducing social distancing to one metre, said that too many scientists were basing their calculations for safe distancing on transmission of the disease in the laboratory, failing to take into account real world conditions in which air flow played a huge part in dispersing the virus. He believes there is almost zero risk of catching Covid-19 outdoors and that one metre is sufficient for maintaining a safe social distance.

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Prof Dingwall, an advocate of reducing social distancing to one metre, said that too many scientists were basing their calculations for safe distancing on transmission of the disease in the laboratory, failing to take into account real world conditions in which air flow played a huge part in dispersing the virus. He believes there is almost zero risk of catching Covid-19 outdoors and that one metre is sufficient for maintaining a safe social distance.


So still a risk. [emoji6]

Even at 1 metre can't be true, wasn't there an expert on here saying it can't be transferred from person to person through the air. [emoji848]

Again he is well named i see as #thichasfcuk [emoji6]
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BBC News - Coronavirus: Sweden's Tegnell admits too many died
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52903717

Sweden's controversial decision not to impose a strict lockdown in response to the Covid-19 pandemic led to too many deaths, the man behind the policy, Anders Tegnell, has acknowledged.

Sweden has seen a far higher mortality rate than its nearest neighbours and its nationals are being barred from crossing their borders.

Sweden has counted 4,542 deaths and 40,803 infections in a population of 10 million, while Denmark, Norway and Finland have imposed lockdowns and seen far lower rates.

Denmark has seen 580 deaths, Norway has had 237 deaths and Finland 321.

Now he has told Swedish public radio: "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done."


So basically don't listen to anyone known as #thichasfcuk

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5 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

BBC News - Coronavirus: Sweden's Tegnell admits too many died
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52903717

Sweden's controversial decision not to impose a strict lockdown in response to the Covid-19 pandemic led to too many deaths, the man behind the policy, Anders Tegnell, has acknowledged.

Sweden has seen a far higher mortality rate than its nearest neighbours and its nationals are being barred from crossing their borders.

Sweden has counted 4,542 deaths and 40,803 infections in a population of 10 million, while Denmark, Norway and Finland have imposed lockdowns and seen far lower rates.

Denmark has seen 580 deaths, Norway has had 237 deaths and Finland 321.

Now he has told Swedish public radio: "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done."


So basically don't listen to anyone known as #thichasfcuk

Scotland with a population of 5.4m has had 2,386 deaths with a severe lockdown. 

I make that we've done worse than them.

I know we're back to oranges and apples but it's interesting, and I'm not saying that we shouldn't have done what we have just pointing out the marked difference. 

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1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:


 

 


So still a risk. emoji6.png

Even at 1 metre can't be true, wasn't there an expert on here saying it can't be transferred from person to person through the air. emoji848.png

Again he is well named i see as #thichasfcuk emoji6.png

 

There are no "experts" in covid19 anywhere in the world. It's a new virus which is only about 6 months old.

Science is still trying to fathom out how it works. Normally those involved would have the luxury of having all these opposing and interesting arguments behind closed doors until a firm view emerges. Only then would the public be informed. There's good reason for that. The average Joe wants certainty but it's not the job of science to provide that. Unfortunately science is having to be too close to the coalface with covid and the average Joe wrongly believes it IS the job of science to provide certainty so we have posts like we've seen on this forum and elsewhere with ignoramuses using phrases like "so-called experts".

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18 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

BBC News - Coronavirus: Sweden's Tegnell admits too many died
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52903717

Sweden's controversial decision not to impose a strict lockdown in response to the Covid-19 pandemic led to too many deaths, the man behind the policy, Anders Tegnell, has acknowledged.

Sweden has seen a far higher mortality rate than its nearest neighbours and its nationals are being barred from crossing their borders.

Sweden has counted 4,542 deaths and 40,803 infections in a population of 10 million, while Denmark, Norway and Finland have imposed lockdowns and seen far lower rates.

Denmark has seen 580 deaths, Norway has had 237 deaths and Finland 321.

Now he has told Swedish public radio: "If we were to encounter the same disease again, knowing exactly what we know about it today, I think we would settle on doing something in between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world has done."


So basically don't listen to anyone known as #thichasfcuk

There's more to this. I wonder if he's replying to a typically obnoxious press question such as whether he wants to "apologise for the dead" or something equally disgraceful. I wonder if the press in Sweden are as scummy as ours?

In the same article it says,

"However, he was unclear what Sweden should have done differently and at a press conference later on Wednesday later he underlined that "we basically still think that is the right strategy for Sweden"."

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9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

There are no "experts" in covid19 anywhere in the world. It's a new virus which is only about 6 months old.

Science is still trying to fathom out how it works. Normally those involved would have the luxury of having all these opposing and interesting arguments behind closed doors until a firm view emerges. Only then would the public be informed. There's good reason for that. The average Joe wants certainty but it's not the job of science to provide that. Unfortunately science is having to be too close to the coalface with covid and the average Joe wrongly believes it IS the job of science to provide certainty so we have posts like we've seen on this forum and elsewhere with ignoramuses using phrases like "so-called experts".

Squirming about as self proclaimed "experts" and scientists are all over the place.

The government and public don't know what the feck to do as we get conflicting information almost on a daily basis.

What is the job of science in this situation....................apart from producing lots of papers that invariably turn out to be wrong? 

 

 

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Scotland with a population of 5.4m has had 2,386 deaths with a severe lockdown. 
I make that we've done worse than them.
I know we're back to oranges and apples but it's interesting, and I'm not saying that we shouldn't have done what we have just pointing out the marked difference. 
We're not in control of immigration where in 5 days time most entering the UK will be required to self isolate for 14 days.

Ehhhhh why didn't we have that from say.... 25th February

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/25/britons-returning-coronavirus-italy-self-isolate-quarantine-regions

Before it was cancelled on the 13th March

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/priti-patel-coronavirus-self-isolate-travellers-uk-new-york-italy-china-a9446381.html


PS, If I go on holiday and return, I've got an exemption from self isolation due to my work status. [emoji6]
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