Coronavirus

[Sue Denim]

2 minutes ago, FTOF said:

There are actually reasons for this, in the article I posted a link to.

Whether you agree with the views of the epidemiologist and infectious disease specialist, is entirely up to you.

if you've adopted an entrenched view on certain aspects of this experience you are not unlikely to change now.

At the start of all this I didn't wear a face covering and was quite dismissive of others who did. However, as the situation worsened,  I figured that it wouldn't do me any harm to wear one and I still do. Not because I think that it will protect me, I hasten to add. I just think that it's common courtesy to reduce the chances of me infecting others. It doesn't cause me any hassle whatsoever, other than steaming up my specs, as I'm a specky bastard.

Also, are the people in England, who have to wear face coverings on transport taking it up the jacksie from Boris too?

https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy
 

https://technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/
 

If masks really did work then we’d have been advised to wear them before now. The WHO was even advising not to wear masks until recently. 
 

The only reason masks are being advised now is to give the illusion that it’s safe to start returning to normal, but like test and trace - it’s completely worthless. 
 

And yes, bojo is making the English take it up the arse too.

Ya speccy bastard! 😎

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy
 

https://technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/
 

If masks really did work then we’d have been advised to wear them before now. The WHO was even advising not to wear masks until recently. 
 

The only reason masks are being advised now is to give the illusion that it’s safe to start returning to normal, but like test and trace - it’s completely worthless. 
 

And yes, bojo is making the English take it up the arse too.

Ya speccy bastard! 😎

Indeed, too little too late, all part of the game which I said at the start of this situation government will do. 

[FTOF]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

There's wearing it and thinking, blindly, it's a great idea.

The science hasn't changed, it's been seen as a minor weapon in the fight to beat this virus.

Now, all of a sudden, it's a must, and not until next Friday? 

Let's not start quoting more fecking experts who change with the wind as politicians pick and choose what suits.

Actually it has.

They realised that the virus was far more infectious than they originally thought. Their initial decision was based on evidence from previous less infectious viruses.

[Sue Denim]

The British Heart Foundation warns that approximately 28,000 heart procedures have been delayed since the outbreak of the virus.
 

Similarly, Cancer Research estimates that a staggering 2.4m people are waiting for screening, treatment or tests, with a potential 23,000 cancers having gone undiagnosed during lockdown

[faraway saint]

7 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Actually it has.

They realised that the virus was far more infectious than they originally thought. Their initial decision was based on evidence from previous less infectious viruses.

So, almost overnight, the virus has become more infectious and masks are seen as a major weapon in the fight to reduce the risk? 

Aye, ok. 

[FTOF]

Just now, faraway saint said:

So, almost overnight, the virus has become more infectious and masks are seen as a major weapon in the fight to reduce the risk? 

Aye, ok. 

Overnight?

Who said that? It was a month ago that WHO made their U-turn, as you can see from the article in the link, which details what has happened to bring about the change, in great detail. You can read through it and make up your mind, or you can ignore it and say it's all made up.

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/6/21282108/masks-for-covid-19-world-health-organization-guidelines-cloth-n95

As you can also see from the article, the WHO is not infallible, and medical practitioners in several countries were using masks from the start despite the WHO's advice no to. However, the WHO had to consider evidence globally, and also try and get consensus from scientists. So a change in direction took a considerable amount of time. As it says in the article, quite often countries are ahead of the WHO, because unlike an individual country, WHO can't make an announcement based on what one countries experts proclaim to be true.  

Of course the WHO isn't the only player in this. The US CDC changed it's stance as early as April 3rd.

Here's a good quote that sums up the whole COVID situation.

Quote

Early on, what you don’t know always exceeds what you do know, and as you learn more, you make changes.”

 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Actually it has.
They realised that the virus was far more infectious than they originally thought. Their initial decision was based on evidence from previous less infectious viruses.

It's embarrassing that you still need to make this kind of statement after the wall to wall coverage that this pandemic has had. I fear you are pissing in the wind though. Seems some folk just don't want to know. Entrenched view as you said in an earlier post.

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Overnight?

Who said that? It was a month ago that WHO made their U-turn, as you can see from the article in the link, which details what has happened to bring about the change, in great detail. You can read through it and make up your mind, or you can ignore it and say it's all made up.

https://www.vox.com/2020/6/6/21282108/masks-for-covid-19-world-health-organization-guidelines-cloth-n95

As you can also see from the article, the WHO is not infallible, and medical practitioners in several countries were using masks from the start despite the WHO's advice no to. However, the WHO had to consider evidence globally, and also try and get consensus from scientists. So a change in direction took a considerable amount of time. As it says in the article, quite often countries are ahead of the WHO, because unlike an individual country, WHO can't make an announcement based on what one countries experts proclaim to be true.  

Of course the WHO isn't the only player in this. The US CDC changed it's stance as early as April 3rd.

Here's a good quote that sums up the whole COVID situation.

 

I'm aware this situation is very fluid and changes have to be made.

It is amusing then the UK government make a U turn they are seen as foolish?

Anyhow, why have the Scottish government waited a month and why wait another week for this to be in place? 

I've already said you can find some evidence somewhere to support what you believe.............................the effectiveness of the masks Joe public will be using are next to pointless, much like this latest ruling.

[faraway saint]

10 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

51 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Actually it has.
They realised that the virus was far more infectious than they originally thought. Their initial decision was based on evidence from previous less infectious viruses.

It's embarrassing that you still need to make this kind of statement after the wall to wall coverage that this pandemic has had. I fear you are pissing in the wind though. Seems some folk just don't want to know. Entrenched view as you said in an earlier post.

That's the key problem with you.

You have no ability to think about anything and fail to understand people have a different point of view.

You don't debate anything, just pour scorn and hide behind the ignore function. 

@FTOF has a different point of view, that's his prerogative and has stated it in a decent enough manner.

The fact it's a load of shite is irrelevant. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by faraway saint

[Sue Denim]

37 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Actually it has.

They realised that the virus was far more infectious than they originally thought. Their initial decision was based on evidence from previous less infectious viruses.

Scientists don’t even understand how flu is spread, who spreads it, why it’s seasonal or where it goes between seasons.

There is absolutely no way that they can know if COVID is more infectious than flu.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2279112/

What we do know is that the forecasts before we went into lockdown such as the Imperial College estimate of 500,000 were out by an order of magnitude.

We also know from looking at South America, where countries locked down even before the U.K. and are only just teaching their peak, that the virus has followed seasonality regardless of measures taken.

And we can now see that mortality from this virus is no different from any previous flu pandemic.

Below shows all cause mortality in Sweden and Scotland. 

And we know that there is far more immunity out there than was initially realised.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-53248660
 

And finally, we know that lockdown came too late to saved many, if any lives. Indeed we don’t even know if  lockdowns do anything - going back to not even understanding how flu operates and how COVID has ignored lockdowns in South America and followed seasonality regardless - the likelihood is that the demise of the virus in Europe has followed seasonality. The reality is that lockdown has caused thousands of collateral deaths in the U.K. so far, will cause thousands more, will increase inequality and poverty throughout the world and possibly millions will die of starvation.

Our reaction to this virus has been way over the top and is causing untold damage.

On the basis of what we now know the government needs to come out and admit they hit it wrong, explain the facts and abandon lockdown and all distancing. 

 

[Sue Denim]

21 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

1 hour ago, FTOF said:

Actually it has.
They realised that the virus was far more infectious than they originally thought. Their initial decision was based on evidence from previous less infectious viruses.

It's embarrassing that you still need to make this kind of statement after the wall to wall coverage that this pandemic has had. I fear you are pissing in the wind though. Seems some folk just don't want to know. Entrenched view as you said in an earlier post.

What’s embarrassing is your huge u turn to now believe all the MSM “wall to wall coverage”

But then again, it plays into your virtue signalling agenda.

Rather being one of the sheeple you try educating yourself and form an opinion of your own.

Granted, your lack of intellect makes that unlikely. 😉

Edited July 2, 2020 by Sue Denim

[Sue Denim]

I wonder if @TPAFKATS has fixed the tin foil hat he was wearing when he declared that England had had 3 times as many excess deaths as Scotland, tried to justify it by saying he said “ almost” despite being out by a multiple of 15, triple downed on it and the let slip that he didn’t even know what excess deaths were.

Now THAT really was embarrassing 

Here’s laughing at you TPAFTWAT you fat virtue signalling cunt
 

😂😂😂😂😂

[FTOF]

1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

I'm aware this situation is very fluid and changes have to be made.

It is amusing then the UK government make a U turn they are seen as foolish?

Anyhow, why have the Scottish government waited a month and why wait another week for this to be in place? 

I've already said you can find some evidence somewhere to support what you believe.............................the effectiveness of the masks Joe public will be using are next to pointless, much like this latest ruling.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22476275/

With some actual evidence to back up assertions. The links within the article to other studies, prove the post on a forum (really?) that you have quoted as being wholly wrong.

Also, cloth masks do not trap Carbon dioxide as carbon dioxide molecules are so small they'll pass through breathable fabrics. So if the author is wrong about that most basic of scientific facts, I think we can take a good guess as to just how reliable the rest of their assertions are.

Quote

 

Carbon dioxide molecules are tiny - far smaller than droplets containing coronavirus which the masks are designed to stop - and won't be trapped by a breathable material, particularly during relatively short periods like a bus journey.

When you breathe out, the carbon dioxide will go through and round the mask.

Surgeons regularly wear much heavier-duty face coverings all day without coming to harm.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/53108405

Also, below, a great example of why you shouldn't believe everything you read in the papers, or in unsubstantiated forum posts, for that matter. Unsurprisingly it was The Daily Mail, The Daily Express and The Sun that jumped on this particular bandwagon.

https://phys.org/news/2020-07-preprint-contagious-strain-coronavirus-peer.html

Anyway, enough about this, we'll agree to disagree.

Also, Sue Denim is spunker of the highest order, so we can ignore anything the master felcher posts.

 

[FTOF]

13 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Scientists don’t even understand how flu is spread, who spreads it, why it’s seasonal or where it goes between seasons.

There is absolutely no way that they can know if COVID is more infectious than flu.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2279112/

What we do know is that the forecasts before we went into lockdown such as the Imperial College estimate of 500,000 were out by an order of magnitude.

We also know from looking at South America, where countries locked down even before the U.K. and are only just teaching their peak, that the virus has followed seasonality regardless of measures taken.

And we can now see that mortality from this virus is no different from any previous flu pandemic.

Below shows all cause mortality in Sweden and Scotland. 

And we know that there is far more immunity out there than was initially realised.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-53248660
 

And finally, we know that lockdown came too late to saved many, if any lives. Indeed we don’t even know if  lockdowns do anything - going back to not even understanding how flu operates and how COVID has ignored lockdowns in South America and followed seasonality regardless - the likelihood is that the demise of the virus in Europe has followed seasonality. The reality is that lockdown has caused thousands of collateral deaths in the U.K. so far, will cause thousands more, will increase inequality and poverty throughout the world and possibly millions will die of starvation.

Our reaction to this virus has been way over the top and is causing untold damage.

On the basis of what we now know the government needs to come out and admit they hit it wrong, explain the facts and abandon lockdown and all distancing. 

 

Haven't you hired a bus yet to take your burd (you'll get a toe in the balls if she finds out you called her that) and your hundreds of mates away for the weekend? 

[Sue Denim]

Despite lockdown being eased, the rate of coronavirus cases in England has dropped almost 40 per cent in the past week, according to official figures published tonight.

End the illegal lockdown 

[Cookie Monster]

Judging by the image he has left of his burd he is punching! Either that or he knows how to photoshop.

So he's gave details of his name, published his photo.

Dear Plod
Here's an easy money making exercise on Saturday night for Nicola's Independence party, that's coming soon. [emoji23]

[St.Ricky]

Personally, I am quite happy about the decision to make face masks compulsory in shops and on public transport. The jury may be out on exactly how effective they are but as a large supermarket says "every little helps". 

[Sue Denim]

Dr Jenny Harries says that wearing masks may increase your risk of catching covid

oops.....
 

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20200315/Wearing-masks-may-increase-your-risk-of-coronavirus-infection-expert-says.aspx?fbclid=IwAR2eO267BgZRJ48RXpZmEnLWhXkUekGHW-lkO4t3Zc3WlmZvsFSuIafguIk&__twitter_impression=true

[FTOF]

6 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Dr Jenny Harries says that wearing masks may increase your risk of catching covid

oops.....
 

https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20200315/Wearing-masks-may-increase-your-risk-of-coronavirus-infection-expert-says.aspx?fbclid=IwAR2eO267BgZRJ48RXpZmEnLWhXkUekGHW-lkO4t3Zc3WlmZvsFSuIafguIk&__twitter_impression=true

On March the 15th you twat.

And only if you don't use it properly.

Good article here looking at the factors that led to changes.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-science-of-mask-wearing-hasnt-changed-so-why-have-our-expectations/

Edited July 3, 2020 by FTOF

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, FTOF said:

On March the 15th you twat.

You're making and selling masks aren't you? 🙄

[St.Ricky]

Hi ho Tonto. Away. 

[FTOF]

3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

You're making and selling masks aren't you? 🙄

Nah.

Just providing evidence to the contrary.

[oaksoft]

14 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

15 hours ago, FTOF said:

Actually it has.
They realised that the virus was far more infectious than they originally thought. Their initial decision was based on evidence from previous less infectious viruses.

It's embarrassing that you still need to make this kind of statement after the wall to wall coverage that this pandemic has had. I fear you are pissing in the wind though. Seems some folk just don't want to know. Entrenched view as you said in an earlier post.

That WHO announcement was at the beginning of June.

Why has Nicola waited until next Friday to make it mandatory to wear one?

Are you prepared to ask ANY questions at all?

[St.Ricky]

   ,   Reasonsonable question. Could have been put in place earlier. One of the arguments against was, I believe, that the population at large might have thought that they were the only precaution needed to use

[oaksoft]

15 hours ago, faraway saint said:

I'm aware this situation is very fluid and changes have to be made.

It is amusing then the UK government make a U turn they are seen as foolish?

Anyhow, why have the Scottish government waited a month and why wait another week for this to be in place? 

I've already said you can find some evidence somewhere to support what you believe.............................the effectiveness of the masks Joe public will be using are next to pointless, much like this latest ruling.

There isn't a face mask which can block carbon dioxide because if it blocked that it would also block nitrogen and oxygen which are of similar size. At that point it would stop you breathing. Anyone claiming the lack of capture of CO2 is a reason to ditch a face mask is a moron. The guy's comments on CO2 are laughably stupid.

The aim of a mask is to catch as much water droplets as possible in your breath and that's it. The water droplets are relatively large and any virus in your breath would be in those droplets.

I am not saying a mask wouldn't be of some help. I'm questioning why is it now mandatory when it hasn't been up till now despite WHO guidelines saying they should be used a month ago.

Edited July 3, 2020 by oaksoft