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20 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

That’s what I was indicating the other day. You could just sense the MSM ramping things up. 
The problem is, like Fricky Troll I don’t believe a f**kin syllable we’re being told. 
The question you have to ask yourself is what is the political gain to be had from all of this shite. I don’t want to speak about the utter buffoon in Downing St, but in Scotland (whatever your political persuasion) you have to admit that the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon are arguably the most popular party and leader in Scottish politics for many years and even they are ruining their own credibility by pandering to all this shite. For me a real leader here would buck this horrific trend and PROPERLY look after the country they presided over.

I doubt there is a bigger fan of Nicola Sturgeon than me and it speaks volumes to me that I am now calling her into question.

I have to say that I am the same as you.

I really liked Sturgeon and would like to see her remain in power but this has damaged my opinion of her.

I no longer trust her judgment. She's a panicker and I can't abide that type. Worse than that, she's hiding behind scientists and IMO that is cowardly and unforgiveable. She's permanently tainted in my eyes.

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3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I have to say that I am the same as you.

I really liked Sturgeon and would like to see her remain in power but this has damaged my opinion of her.

I no longer trust her judgment. She's a panicker and I can't abide that type. Worse than that, she's hiding behind scientists and IMO that is cowardly and unforgiveable. She's permanently tainted in my eyes.

So Oaky (or anyone else for that matter), what do we believe is the political capital to be gained from this behaviour? Or should I say what do we think the likes of Nicola THINKS is the political gain? Are we to believe that she is really unable to see her credibility being eroded, or are people with our view actually in the minority and in fact her credibility isn’t being eroded at all? I honestly don’t know. 

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9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I have to say that I am the same as you.

I really liked Sturgeon and would like to see her remain in power but this has damaged my opinion of her.

I no longer trust her judgment. She's a panicker and I can't abide that type. Worse than that, she's hiding behind scientists and IMO that is cowardly and unforgiveable. She's permanently tainted in my eyes.

Sorry, the other thing I meant to say was that if there was one thing I didn’t think Nicola was, it’s a panicker.  On the contrary I thought she was the opposite. I always had her pinned as an extremely level headed politician, with very considered opinions who was very skilled at not leaving herself open to criticism such as this. Like you though I am starting to see her in a different light. 
That is a very sad thought for me because as a strong supporter for Scottish independence I felt that a Sturgeon led SNP was the best vehicle to achieve that. Now I’m unconvinced it will happen in my lifetime. 

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6 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

So Oaky (or anyone else for that matter), what do we believe is the political capital to be gained from this behaviour? Or should I say what do we think the likes of Nicola THINKS is the political gain? Are we to believe that she is really unable to see her credibility being eroded, or are people with our view actually in the minority and in fact her credibility isn’t being eroded at all? I honestly don’t know. 

It's a case of over compensation. Back in March, politicians were slow to react and got it wrong, emptying hospitals into care homes for instance. This has led to a fear induced cautiousness, and sadly most people are still accepting of this and blaming others for not sticking to the "rules". This might turn, but probably not for a while yet. Fear and rationality rarely go hand in hand.

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7 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Sorry, the other thing I meant to say was that if there was one thing I didn’t think Nicola was, it’s a panicker.  On the contrary I thought she was the opposite. I always had her pinned as an extremely level headed politician, with very considered opinions who was very skilled at not leaving herself open to criticism such as this. Like you though I am starting to see her in a different light. 
That is a very sad thought for me because as a strong supporter for Scottish independence I felt that a Sturgeon led SNP was the best vehicle to achieve that. Now I’m unconvinced it will happen in my lifetime. 

It's difficult to know but I thinks she is a naturally very cautious person and feels a strong need to be in control and this virus will have shaken her to her core. This looks like classic control freakery to me.

I think Hendo has it right when he talks about fear and rationality not being good bedfellows. Moving old people into care homes can be looked at as a disaster. That was clearly a panic thing.

Maybe she's afraid of seeing her legacy disappear if she gets this wrong and lots of people end up dying. That will definitely be on her mind. Being FM and leading the country to independence is what her whole career has been about and right at the last second this virus hits. You'd have a hard job convincing me that this hasn't played a role in her thinking.

Scots are a weird bunch though. We are a long way from the pioneering, gallus, adventuring and innovative nation we used to be. Instead, we are cautious, risk averse bunch on the whole and we seem to absolutely hate change. There is a limit though as Labour found out. I don't think Sturgeon is at that limit yet but there's no doubt that this situation and her overreaction to it is causing problems for her.Right now I think most people are still saying "Well it could be worse. At least she's not Johnson or Trump".

ETA. I will say this. IMO if we are to gain independence it will have to be through her. I can't think of anyone else in the SNP capable of leading the country to a Yes vote. She is head and shoulders above anyone else in terms of stature and charisma. Problem is that she's already been in charge 6 years and all leaders have a lifespan.

Edited by oaksoft
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It's difficult to know but I thinks she is a naturally very cautious person and feels a strong need to be in control and this virus will have shaken her to her core. This looks like classic control freakery to me.
I think Hendo has it right when he talks about fear and rationality not being good bedfellows. Moving old people into care homes can be looked at as a disaster. That was clearly a panic thing.
Maybe she's afraid of seeing her legacy disappear if she gets this wrong and lots of people end up dying. That will definitely be on her mind. Being FM and leading the country to independence is what her whole career has been about and right at the last second this virus hits. You'd have a hard job convincing me that this hasn't played a role in her thinking.
Scots are a weird bunch though. We are a long way from the pioneering, gallus, adventuring and innovative nation we used to be. Instead, we are cautious, risk averse bunch on the whole and we seem to absolutely hate change. There is a limit though as Labour found out. I don't think Sturgeon is at that limit yet but there's no doubt that this situation and her overreaction to it is causing problems for her.Right now I think most people are still saying "Well it could be worse. At least she's not Johnson or Trump".
ETA. I will say this. IMO if we are to gain independence it will have to be through her. I can't think of anyone else in the SNP capable of leading the country to a Yes vote. She is head and shoulders above anyone else in terms of stature and charisma. Problem is that she's already been in charge 6 years and all leaders have a lifespan.


I must admit, I’m not a big admirer of Sturgeon and have drifted away from the SNP after 2014.
However, in her defence WRT COVID she was in a “dammed if you do” situation and at the start of COVID where no one globally in her role knew what to do.
In saying that as time went on and over the worst of COVID in terms of deaths etc, she still seems to change her mind like the weather.
Yes more cases have been recorded of late, but virtually no one is dying from it now.
The more people I speak to and even reading comments on here, I think her popularity is waning.
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10 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

That’s what I was indicating the other day. You could just sense the MSM ramping things up. 
The problem is, like Fricky Troll I don’t believe a f**kin syllable we’re being told. 
The question you have to ask yourself is what is the political gain to be had from all of this shite. I don’t want to speak about the utter buffoon in Downing St, but in Scotland (whatever your political persuasion) you have to admit that the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon are arguably the most popular party and leader in Scottish politics for many years and even they are ruining their own credibility by pandering to all this shite. For me a real leader here would buck this horrific trend and PROPERLY look after the country they presided over.

I doubt there is a bigger fan of Nicola Sturgeon than me and it speaks volumes to me that I am now calling her into question.

There was an expert offering a very concerned view the other night on news at ten, a former member of SAGE.  He was warning that a much more damaging phase of the pandemic is all but inevitable and he confirmed that re-infection was happening at home.  He seemed very gloomy and concerned and stated that the advice to limit the numbers in domestic gatherings had to come forward (as it did in England less than 24 hours later).  He also felt that the return of students to universities was liable to be a tipping point.

 

10 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I have to say that I am the same as you.

I really liked Sturgeon and would like to see her remain in power but this has damaged my opinion of her.

I no longer trust her judgment. She's a panicker and I can't abide that type. Worse than that, she's hiding behind scientists and IMO that is cowardly and unforgiveable. She's permanently tainted in my eyes.

I dont think she is panicking, possibly in the throes of giving us all one last chance to improve COVID behaviours before reaching for the national lockdown switch.  if anything, she might well come to regret not going in harder on current advice.

I don't think she is hiding behind scientists, politicians make decisions on their own account whilst paying heed to expert advice.  She has consistently taken responsibility for her decisions.

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On 9/7/2020 at 7:43 PM, Sue Denim said:

The Royal College of GPs defines the baseline threshold for normal seasonal activity in England as 30 to 200 GP consultations for influenza like illness per week per 100,000 population. 
 

An epidemic would be more than 200 consultations per week.

Herr Sturgeon is locking us down for breaching 20 “cases” per week.

These “cases” include false positives and asymptomatic cases (probably more than 90%). 

Frau  Sturgeon would be more appropriate, if she were of German descent.

But she's not so your point is somewhat ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by beyond our ken
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Boris makes it ILLEGAL for anyone in England to gather in groups of more than 6 indoors or outdoors. That's more draconian than any SG restriction so far since the full lockdown. As for his "moonshot" programme to allow fans to have to take a new instant test to prove negativity ahead of every event you want to attend that's more moon howling than moon shot. He's managing to out Trump the Donald. Totally lost it.

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14 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Boris makes it ILLEGAL for anyone in England to gather in groups of more than 6 indoors or outdoors. That's more draconian than any SG restriction so far since the full lockdown. As for his "moonshot" programme to allow fans to have to take a new instant test to prove negativity ahead of every event you want to attend that's more moon howling than moon shot. He's managing to out Trump the Donald. Totally lost it.

Do you honestly think that these decisions are taken by Boris as he's sitting having his lunch? :blink:

FFS, get real, there's a whole bundle of people involved before these decisions are taken.

You've out trumped Trump coming out with that nonsense. :lol:

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Do you honestly think that these decisions are taken by Boris as he's sitting having his lunch? :blink:
FFS, get real, there's a whole bundle of people involved before these decisions are taken.
You've out trumped Trump coming out with that nonsense. 
Does Trump either, in principle it's the exact same.
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5 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:
32 minutes ago, Long John Baldy said:
Do you honestly think that these decisions are taken by Boris as he's sitting having his lunch? :blink:
FFS, get real, there's a whole bundle of people involved before these decisions are taken.
You've out trumped Trump coming out with that nonsense. emoji38.png

Does Trump either, in principle it's the exact same.

So you're wrong about Trump as well then. :lol:

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So, after another hard days work I come home and it seems the country is heading towards anarchy, if the news is to be believed.

Everyone's circumstances are different so I can only speak for myself.

Apart from my temperature being taken every morning there are no real signs we are still in any dangerous pandemic.

I'm going away for the weekend, maybe I'll see some differences in Perthshire.

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I don't think NS is panicking over Covid policy, if you look at her policy with regard to austerity it has been to increase Income Tax in Scotland by 1% (with adjusted bands) compared to the UK as a whole, less than the Scottish government is allowed, similarly her Covid relaxation policy was to ease policies a little later and by not quite as much and then last week to be more severe quarantine restrictions from Greece. 

How BJ & NS are judged on the handling of the Covid crisis will be the most important issue in next year's Holyrood elections. certainly way more important than the constitutional issues and potential breaking of international law surrounding Brexit - ah if only we could go back to June when BJ said we had "turned the tide on Covid" which sounds remarkably complacent in light of the recently announced restrictions.

I reckon NSs Covid strategy is far from panic but a cautious approach designed to contrast with policy down South - she's been far from faultless but is still way ahead of her opponent.

 

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1 hour ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Boris makes it ILLEGAL for anyone in England to gather in groups of more than 6 indoors or outdoors. That's more draconian than any SG restriction so far since the full lockdown. As for his "moonshot" programme to allow fans to have to take a new instant test to prove negativity ahead of every event you want to attend that's more moon howling than moon shot. He's managing to out Trump the Donald. Totally lost it.

It’s oven ready! 

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2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

I don't think NS is panicking over Covid policy, if you look at her policy with regard to austerity it has been to increase Income Tax in Scotland by 1% (with adjusted bands) compared to the UK as a whole, less than the Scottish government is allowed, similarly her Covid relaxation policy was to ease policies a little later and by not quite as much and then last week to be more severe quarantine restrictions from Greece. 

How BJ & NS are judged on the handling of the Covid crisis will be the most important issue in next year's Holyrood elections. certainly way more important than the constitutional issues and potential breaking of international law surrounding Brexit - ah if only we could go back to June when BJ said we had "turned the tide on Covid" which sounds remarkably complacent in light of the recently announced restrictions.

I reckon NSs Covid strategy is far from panic but a cautious approach designed to contrast with policy down South - she's been far from faultless but is still way ahead of her opponent.

 

“Way ahead”?

Between they threw 25,000 elderly patients out of hospital, condemning many of them to death. 
 

Between them they’ve caused tens of thousands of non COVID collateral deaths so far with thousands more to come and thousands dying every week.

Between they’ve wrecked the livelihoods of millions in the U.K.

Between then they’ve condemned hundreds of millions in the third world to death and poverty.

Scotland has the worst mortality rate in Western Europe in 2020. Hardly something to be proud of. 

History will judge what they’ve done badly. 

Edited by Sue Denim
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Just been watching the bubble didnae burst goals from 99/00. Great memories.

One bit did stick out. The game against Dunfermline around xmas at East End Park was called off because of a flu outbreak at St Mirren.

More people died in 99/00 from the winter onwards to this point than have died in the same period 2019/2020. And that’s despite a flu vaccine.

We didn’t shut down the economy and the NHS back then so why now? 

Edited by Sue Denim
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3 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Boris makes it ILLEGAL for anyone in England to gather in groups of more than 6 indoors or outdoors. That's more draconian than any SG restriction so far since the full lockdown. As for his "moonshot" programme to allow fans to have to take a new instant test to prove negativity ahead of every event you want to attend that's more moon howling than moon shot. He's managing to out Trump the Donald. Totally lost it.

Do you still use your wife’s police ID card to jump queues and shop at times reserved for NHS workers or the elderly? 

Edited by Sue Denim
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Why COVID deaths will never reach zero, why hospitalisations and deaths will appear to rise and why you’d better arrange your family xmas dinner for November.

If you think the lunacy is bad now, wait until you see what craziness lies ahead this winter.

https://logicinthetimeofcovid.com/2020/09/07/waiting-for-zero/

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So you're wrong about Trump as well then. 
I posed a question so cant see how I could be "wrong ". It's frankly irrelevant who comes up with policy ultimately the PM has decided to go with it. The Moonshot is right out there as one of the most ambitious/mental/unlikely yet. It's tilting at windmills stuff and the fact they are running with it makes you seriously wonder just how far away a vaccine must be in reality.
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30 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Oh dear.  Nicola Sturgeon doubles down on Boris Johnson’s lunacy.

Sweden has had far fewer deaths than Scotland. Why don’t we follow their lead rather than the lunatics down south?

Why does Sturgeon want to be more English than the English?

Actually more sensible than BJs as it only includes two households - it also allows her to go her customary 1% further than BJ! :clapping

Nice to see you sticking to your ghoulish delight in the number of care home deaths in the spring last night and today with your misguided comparisons with Sweden, a country which was in a position to take the actions it did because of it's preparations prior to the pandemic.  

Edited by Bud the Baker
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Sigh! Here we go again.

We increase testing and find more cases with false positives everywhere.

Sturgeon ignores all of this and announces a limit of 6 people gathering indoors OR OUTDOORS including pubs and restaurants. New law on Monday.

Bar staff have to wear masks but customers don't. Sporting events are exempt presumably because sports fans have some super-dooper resistance to either catching or spreading this thing.

No logic. No consistency. No end game. No plan. No strategy. Just panic, panic and more panic.

The utter farce continues.

She should just do what she really wants to do and announce a full f**king lockdown again. After all, nobody is allowed to die in this bizarre world of hers.

Edited by oaksoft
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2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Nice to see you sticking to your ghoulish delight in the number of care home deaths in the spring last night and today with your misguided comparisons with Sweden, a country which was in a position to take the actions it did because of it's preparations prior to the pandemic.  

Ah, of course, highlighting care home deaths and who is responsible is “ghoulish”.

Lockdown supporters would rather the care home deaths were just swept under the carpet and will attack anyone who brings it up.

I guess that’s what guilt does to you.

What preparations did Sweden take prior to the pandemic? 

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