Coronavirus

[faraway saint]

Well, today we, Angus, move into the next tier, despite being fairly low.

I think 87 per 100,000. 

Decision made due to Ninewells hospital being deluged with mingers from Dundee.

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by faraway saint

[shull]

 

[shull]

[shull]

 

[Bud the Baker]

As an aside the gammonite fantasy that Sweden was somehow doing better than the rest of Europe with it's light touch (never herd immunity) policy is being finally shattered with them imposing a partial lockdown in bars and restaurants.

The headline below is from The Daily Mail who were predicting herd immunity being achieved in Sweden back in April.

Quote

Sweden could have 'herd immunity' by next month as deaths stay low despite relaxed lockdown measures

compared to this one from two days ago

Quote

Coronavirus hospitalisations are rising faster in lockdown-free Sweden than any other country in Europe

and this in a country which has a well funded health system, a culture of shared responsibility and was rated 7th best ready to cope with a pandemic by the WHO last year - perish the thought of how we would've fared if BJ had persisted with his non-policy of herd immunity here.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Bud the Baker

[Bud the Baker]

53 minutes ago, shull said:

 

There is a something to be said about the first half of that statement - the level of cronyism involved in dishing out Covid related projects in the UK is gobsmacking and the amount of state help given to drug companies to fast track vaccines should be reflected in the cost of said vaccines.

[shull]

Leave the kids alone.

You seem disturbed, Liam.

 

[faraway saint]

4 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

As an aside the gammonite fantasy that Sweden was somehow doing better than the rest of Europe with it's light touch (never herd immunity) policy is being finally shattered with them imposing a partial lockdown in bars and restaurants.

The headline below is from The Daily Mail who were predicting herd immunity being achieved in Sweden back in April.

compared to this one from two days ago

and this in a country which has a well funded health system, a culture of shared responsibility and was rated 7th best ready to cope with a pandemic by the WHO last year - perish the thought of how we would've fared if BJ had persisted with his non-policy of herd immunity here.

In Europe Sweden are 26th out of 46 countries in cases per million, not exactly frightening considering they still have a decent amount of freedom, even including the latest increase in restrictions.

Not so great in deaths right enough, sitting 10th. 

 

[Bud the Baker]

3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

In Europe Sweden are 26th out of 46 countries in cases per million, not exactly frightening considering they still have a decent amount of freedom, even including the latest increase in restrictions.

Not so great in deaths right enough, sitting 10th. 

 

Well yeah, I guess you can compare different aspects of the virus and Sweden's figures will be above average for the continent for some and below for others.

What I was trying to focus on is that the predictions of them reaching herd immunity haven't turned out to be correct, and citing them as a reason against restrictions here is a lost argument - they're in the doodoo with the rest of us.

[faraway saint]

17 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Well yeah, I guess you can compare different aspects of the virus and Sweden's figures will be above average for the continent for some and below for others.

What I was trying to focus on is that the predictions of them reaching herd immunity haven't turned out to be correct, and citing them as a reason against restrictions here is a lost argument - they're in the doodoo with the rest of us.

I don't think it is.

Their figures (cases/deaths) are still better than many countries and their economy was less effected than most.

In fact their economy, as decent as it was, was actually hit by a drop in demand from exports, which they depend on in a big way.

It's a balancing act, and they have, IMO, handled this better than many countries and the public are suffering a lot less than the majority of countries. 

[Bud the Baker]

1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

I don't think it is.

Their figures (cases/deaths) are still better than many countries and their economy was less effected than most.

In fact their economy, as decent as it was, was actually hit by a drop in demand from exports, which they depend on in a big way.

It's a balancing act, and they have, IMO, handled this better than many countries and the public are suffering a lot less than the majority of countries. 

In health terms they're doing much worse than their Scandinavian neighbours Finland & Norway who did introduce lockdowns and as I've already pointed out they started off with a far better health infrastructure than the majority of countries.

You may very well be correct about the economic side of the pandemic but that's a different kettle of pickled herring.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Bud the Baker

[FTOF]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

In health terms they're doing much worse than their Scandinavian neighbours Finland & Norway who did introduce lockdowns and as I've already pointed out they started off with a far better health infrastructure than the majority of countries.

You may very well be correct about the economic side of the pandemic but that's a different kettle of pickled herring.

Pedant alert - Finland is classed as Nordic, not Scandinavian. 

[eastlandssaint]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18872756.coronavirus-scotland-glasgow-lanarkshire-ayrshire-move-level-4/

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, eastlandssaint said:

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18872756.coronavirus-scotland-glasgow-lanarkshire-ayrshire-move-level-4/

Only a matter of time, can see many parts of Scotland going level 4 before things get better. A real worry for Christmas but the nations health should and will come first. 

[shull]

[Ayrshire Saints]

Only a matter of time, can see many parts of Scotland going level 4 before things get better. A real worry for Christmas but the nations health should and will come first. 

The "leaking" of T4 imminence is creating rule breaking. I had to go into work today and while waiting at Ayr the train from Glasgow became my train home. There was upwards of 50 passengers loaded with bags and packages clearly from Glasgow shops which I can only assume is people deciding to ditch the no travel in out rule to get Christmas shopping done ahead of any T4 closure. If they are moving LAs to T4 then do it and stop just talking about it. The closer to December the bigger negative economic impact.

[faraway saint]

22 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Only a matter of time, can see many parts of Scotland going level 4 before things get better. A real worry for Christmas but the nations health should and will come first. 

The "leaking" of T4 imminence is creating rule breaking. I had to go into work today and while waiting at Ayr the train from Glasgow became my train home. There was upwards of 50 passengers loaded with bags and packages clearly from Glasgow shops which I can only assume is people deciding to ditch the no travel in out rule to get Christmas shopping done ahead of any T4 closure. If they are moving LAs to T4 then do it and stop just talking about it. The closer to December the bigger negative economic impact.

Indeed.

Every day/week that passes their will be more "rule breaking" and the economic impact will see the end of many business's in this critical period for many.

What happened to the Scottish government "leading the way"? 

The UK government were criticised for missing the boat in utilising the October school holidays and here "we" are in mid November possibly increasing restrictions? 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by faraway saint

[Ayrshire Saints]

Indeed.
Every day/week that passes their will be more "rule breaking" and the economic impact will see the end of many business's in this critical period for many.
What happened to the Scottish government "leading the way"? 
The UK government were criticised for missing the boat in utilising the October school holidays and here "we" are in mid November possibly increasing restrictions? 
 
 

It's the carrot and stick effect in reverse. "Adhere and T4 won't be necessary but we won't hesitate to use it" has become we need to break the current T3 rules in case we go to T4.
A T4 move now would be economic disaster for any business forced to close. No good covering basic wages at the one time these businesses would be making handsome profits. At the absolute least all shops should be allowed to trade in the run up to Christmas. A move to T4 now would need to be for a min 4 weeks to show any positive effect thus killing Christmas trade completely if it comes in next Friday.

Having said all that it's a very fine line. Thousands are already taking the piss so an announcement of no movement to T4 would only increase that. A fair chunk of the population are not helping and can be held quite a big part responsible for the uncertainty.

[Ayrshire Saints]

In an aside to the above BBC headlines like today's nutty professor stuff is not helping one bit. Telling the public measures are likely to remain pretty tight for at least another year, maybe more DESPITE the vaccine are only adding fuel to the rule breakers. There has to be more of a positive spin or more and more will simply chuck it.

[faraway saint]

10 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

It's the carrot and stick effect in reverse. "Adhere and T4 won't be necessary but we won't hesitate to use it" has become we need to break the current T3 rules in case we go to T4.
A T4 move now would be economic disaster for any business forced to close. No good covering basic wages at the one time these businesses would be making handsome profits. At the absolute least all shops should be allowed to trade in the run up to Christmas. A move to T4 now would need to be for a min 4 weeks to show any positive effect thus killing Christmas trade completely if it comes in next Friday.

Having said all that it's a very fine line. Thousands are already taking the piss so an announcement of no movement to T4 would only increase that. A fair chunk of the population are not helping and can be held quite a big part responsible for the uncertainty.

These two points are what I've been saying for quite some time. 

Every passing week does more damage to business's.

I wonder how many people who are whining about restrictions are the same selfish cnuts who are doing what they like?

You can go to Tenerife but I can't go to Perthshire for a weekend. 

 

Edited November 15, 2020 by faraway saint

[faraway saint]

10 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

In an aside to the above BBC headlines like today's nutty professor stuff is not helping one bit. Telling the public measures are likely to remain pretty tight for at least another year, maybe more DESPITE the vaccine are only adding fuel to the rule breakers. There has to be more of a positive spin or more and more will simply chuck it.

Seen this clown earlier.

Agreed the impact of statements like this, which at this stage are nothing more than speculation, are adding fuel to the fire. 

More damage than good these academics since day one. 

[djchapsticks]

2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Only a matter of time, can see many parts of Scotland going level 4 before things get better. A real worry for Christmas but the nations health should and will come first. 

A move into T4 is absolutely beyond moronic at this time of the year. The social, mental, financial negative impact of shutting an entire country down in the run up to Christmas will far outstrip any positives.

[Ayrshire Saints]

These two points are what I've been saying for quite some time. 
Every passing week does more damage to business's.
I wonder how many people who are whining about restrictions are the same selfish cnuts who are doing what they like?
You can go to Tenerife but I can't go to Perthshire for a weekend. [emoji38]
 

Never thought of it like that, yes lunacy.

[faraway saint]

9 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

A move into T4 is absolutely beyond moronic at this time of the year. The social, mental, financial negative impact of shutting an entire country down in the run up to Christmas will far outstrip any positives.

I know this has been said before but you are wasting your time. 

He see's things in very simplistic terms. 

It's "deaths", no matter the number, outweigh anything else, end of debate. 

 

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

Indeed.

Every day/week that passes their will be more "rule breaking" and the economic impact will see the end of many business's in this critical period for many.

What happened to the Scottish government "leading the way"? 

The UK government were criticised for missing the boat in utilising the October school holidays and here "we" are in mid November possibly increasing restrictions? 

 

 

In what way are the Scottish government not leading the way? - - Seems like the infection rates are lower in Scotland 

- we have more freedoms in Scotland than pretty much anywhere else in the U.K. 

- Scottish government can only do so much to stop rule breaking same as anywhere else 

- borrowing powers to support people and business aren’t devolved. 

what more would you actually like to see?