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1 hour ago, Sue Denim said:

@bazil85 has used the term “excessive deaths” on a number of occasions.

He simply doesn’t know what he’s talking about 

it would be funny if it weren’t for the fact that this sort of cluelessness is killing so many people 

 

 

20 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

It’s “excess deaths”, not “ excessive deaths”

no-one is denying any pandemics. A pandemic occurred in the Spring. It can be clearly seen in the graphs.

What can and also be seen in the graphs is that covid deaths now exceed excess deaths in this pseudo second wave and that that when covid deaths go up, non covid excess death go down and vice versa - proof that it’s a pseudo second wave. 
 

The fact is tens of thousands of those excess deaths were caused by the policies pushed by yourself, @bazil85 and @smcc with no evidence that they saved any lives.

Your virtue, their death 

 

Pedantic, Antrin would have likely been doing it in jest but I feel you have likely latched on because so many of us on here have proven your multiple claims about the pandemic are wrong. 

Part highlighted in bold appears to be wrong, there is no evidence at all that EXCESS deaths this year have completely been a different cause to covid19. 

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41 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Wales, after its “firebreak” lockdown is now reporting the highest covid cases per capita in the world

That went well....

Yet despite that, their hospital occupancy is at unprecedentedly low levels....

9BAF93E1-CD9A-470B-9AD5-E0F9885FF903.jpeg

So again stats proving your "pandemic is over" claim wrong, will you finally admit you were wrong about that? 

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42 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Wales, after its “firebreak” lockdown is now reporting the highest covid cases per capita in the world

That went well....

Yet despite that, their hospital occupancy is at unprecedentedly low levels....

9BAF93E1-CD9A-470B-9AD5-E0F9885FF903.jpeg

"Yet despite that, their hospital occupancy is at unprecedentedly low levels."...

Did you actually read this link before you posted it yesterday?

https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Health-and-Social-Care/NHS-Hospital-Activity/nhs-activity-and-capacity-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/nhsbed-by-date-use

 

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20 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

Paper written by a couple of statisticians proving that it’s a pseudo second wave.

can @bazil85 @smcc or @Bud the Baker answer any of the questions asked?

Unlikely as it would mean them having to face up to the tens of thousands of deaths in the U.K. alone and the millions worldwide that they have helped cause 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zkE00ANmITzyXaSM-S_44ZWEJTxoUtp3/view

You'll always get conspiracy theorists with anything like this. Quick google of the two linked to these questions shows they can easily be discounted as pandemic deniers. Their view is right up there with "why is the US flag moving if there's no wind on the moon" 🤣

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Come on Antrin, been so good recently, no need for the return to the pedantic just for the case of an argument surely? 🤣

Sorry, but if you want to argue about the accuracy of numbers I just felt it might help to use language that was equally correct, so there’d be no misunderstandings.

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

 

Pedantic, Antrin would have likely been doing it in jest but I feel you have likely latched on because so many of us on here have proven your multiple claims about the pandemic are wrong. 

Part highlighted in bold appears to be wrong, there is no evidence at all that EXCESS deaths this year have completely been a different cause to covid19. 

And er.... just to BE pedantic - it is antrin and always has been.... in this incarnation, at least.

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Sturgeon breaks her own covid rules

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-scotland-55419564

£60 penalty for starters but she should surely resign now. 
 

She called on Catherine Calderwood to resign so she must fall on her own sword.

You can’t subject the population to these ridiculous, unnecessary and lethal rules and then not follow them yourself. 

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

You'll always get conspiracy theorists with anything like this. Quick google of the two linked to these questions shows they can easily be discounted as pandemic deniers. Their view is right up there with "why is the US flag moving if there's no wind on the moon" 🤣

Another baz tactic, when unable to argue his point he resorts to conflating with conspiracy theorists and deniers. 

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3 hours ago, smcc said:

"Yet despite that, their hospital occupancy is at unprecedentedly low levels."...

Did you actually read this link before you posted it yesterday?

https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Health-and-Social-Care/NHS-Hospital-Activity/nhs-activity-and-capacity-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic/nhsbed-by-date-use

 

Yes, why?

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

 

Pedantic, Antrin would have likely been doing it in jest but I feel you have likely latched on because so many of us on here have proven your multiple claims about the pandemic are wrong. 

Part highlighted in bold appears to be wrong, there is no evidence at all that EXCESS deaths this year have completely been a different cause to covid19. 

Pointing out that you don’t understand what excess deaths means isn’t pedantry.

It’s pointing out that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

And no amount of backtracking changes that.

There is a huge amount of evidence that lockdown is causing excess deaths this year. Even SAGE believes it will kill around 200,000.

If restricting healthcare for most of the year, kicking 25,000 sick and elderly patients out of hospital and slapping DNR notices on everyone over 75 doesn’t cause massive excess deaths then the government can save £ billions by dismantling most of the NHS :1eye

 

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Erm... it's not excessive deaths.
 
Death is simply that - dead.  Death in itself can't be excessive.  The light simply switches off.
The manner in which the death occurs could be described as excessive eg "he was stabbed, bricked, boiled in oil, had his head cut off then they smothered him and dropped him in a pool of piranha".
 Now that could be described as being rendered dead in an "excessive" manner, but the initial mortal blow would have sufficed for the person to be simply factually dead. 
And if there masses of people being killed in such an over-elaborate manner then I guess you could then compare individually excessive deaths.
 
However we're not doing that here.  So you can just count excess deaths  in comparison with how many died during a similar period as the ONS is doing.
 
I should get out more...  :unsure:
As stated previously, you're wasting your time as he has admitted that he uses his own definitions for words. It really shouldn't be that one word that bothers you, it should be all the rest, as only he knows what he is actually saying and how many of those words he is using his own definition for. For all the rest of us know, "excessive deaths" could be "fish suppers" in his head.
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7 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

The fact that this is your “favourite” statistic says it all. 
 

The middle class left have celebrated working class deaths throughout 
 

The fact that many of those deaths were caused by the policies you support is what is so sad

your virtue, their death 

Just for you and your fellow illiterates I'll give you the first three synonyms for favourite as a noun - first choice, choice, pick.

Anyway onto the main course, it's been a government pandering to gammonistas and deniers (like yourself) that has caused the bulk of the deaths in the UK and tanked the economy worse than all our competitors into the bargain. As I've said before spare me your lies about giving a fuck regarding the deaths & hardship caused by the pandemic.

Very few of us have shifted ground in six months, neither of us have done so, and that undoubtedly what is so sad.

I look forward to your next delusional homily.

 

Edited by Bud the Baker
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8 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Yes, why?

If you can't(or more likely won't) see why there is no point in having any discussion  with you.  I pointed out that, despite your claims, the number of general and acute beds beds occupied by Covid patients in Welsh hospitals increased by more than 40% between 21 November and 21 December, while the number of no-Covid patients in this set of beds actually fell slightly. You, of course, continue to ignore figures that don't suit you.

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10 hours ago, antrin said:

Sorry, but if you want to argue about the accuracy of numbers I just felt it might help to use language that was equally correct, so there’d be no misunderstandings.

Still pedantic though, there would and will be no misunderstanding. . 

10 hours ago, antrin said:

And er.... just to BE pedantic - it is antrin and always has been.... in this incarnation, at least.

That tops it. :whistle

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10 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Another baz tactic, when unable to argue his point he resorts to conflating with conspiracy theorists and deniers. 

Incorrect, there's a reason why people like them are in the overwhelming minority, the facts are.

1. The pandemic is not over 

2.EXCESS deaths in the UK this year point to people dying linked to Covid

3. It is entirely appropriate to restrict everyday life if you value human life.  

10 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

On the contrary, Wales mislabelling collateral deaths as covid deaths proves I’m right and that you are wrong. 
Your virtue, their death 

Again you can't quote stats that you feel back up part on your narrative while contradicting another. Do you think they are accurate or not? If they are accurate the pandemic is not "over" if you don't, how do they back up your view? 

9 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Pointing out that you don’t understand what excess deaths means isn’t pedantry.

It’s pointing out that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

And no amount of backtracking changes that.

There is a huge amount of evidence that lockdown is causing excess deaths this year. Even SAGE believes it will kill around 200,000.

But it is pedantic, a slight difference in wording won't confuse anyone. It isn't the correction it's the manner in which both of you have done it & here we are, several messages later and it's still being discussed. These points are right out the Slarti playbook & don't progress either side. "by the way, excess is the correct terminology, just for future posts" Job done, we move on. 

Excess vs excessive deaths does not change the point, yes I got the terminology wrong, fully admit that but beyond that the point stands. 80,000+ excess deaths during the time of the pandemic, you have provided no alternative to Covid19. 

Show me where Sage has said it "will" cause 200,000? Lockdown is to date not having the impact you have claimed for months, you even resorted to political decisions = possible (although you claim definite) lockdown deaths, you've been corrected on that. 

9 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

If restricting healthcare for most of the year, kicking 25,000 sick and elderly patients out of hospital and slapping DNR notices on everyone over 75 doesn’t cause massive excess deaths then the government can save £ billions by dismantling most of the NHS :1eye

No one is denying mistakes have been made, there has also had to be difficult decisions given the horrible nature of this virus. None of that has been the main contributor to 80,000 excess deaths, covid19 has been. 

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9 hours ago, Slarti said:
15 hours ago, antrin said:
Erm... it's not excessive deaths.
 
Death is simply that - dead.  Death in itself can't be excessive.  The light simply switches off.
The manner in which the death occurs could be described as excessive eg "he was stabbed, bricked, boiled in oil, had his head cut off then they smothered him and dropped him in a pool of piranha".
 Now that could be described as being rendered dead in an "excessive" manner, but the initial mortal blow would have sufficed for the person to be simply factually dead. 
And if there masses of people being killed in such an over-elaborate manner then I guess you could then compare individually excessive deaths.
 
However we're not doing that here.  So you can just count excess deaths  in comparison with how many died during a similar period as the ONS is doing.
 
I should get out more...  :unsure:

As stated previously, you're wasting your time as he has admitted that he uses his own definitions for words. It really shouldn't be that one word that bothers you, it should be all the rest, as only he knows what he is actually saying and how many of those words he is using his own definition for. For all the rest of us know, "excessive deaths" could be "fish suppers" in his head.

Slarti stuck on 4. I suppose this is right in his element. 

The five step ignore guide to BAWA

  1. Say you're going to stop responding and arguing with the person
  2. Keep responding and arguing with them a bit longer
  3. Put the person on ignore (make sure you announce it to everyone)
  4. Still follow almost every response to the person and bring the person up in completely unrelated topics, often bringing up long dead argument points you already said you’d stop arguing with them over
  5. Take the person off ignore and repeat from step one
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A Brexit extension would no doubt be a boon with the current escalation of the pandemic although does anyone seriously think that we won't be back here when the new deadline looms?

That said a three month extension so that the vaccine program is well underway and (hopefully) spring brings about an additional drop in infections should be a no-brainer.

Edited by Bud the Baker
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13 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

A Brexit extension would no doubt be a boon with the current escalation of the pandemic although does anyone seriously think that we won't be back here when the new deadline looms?

That said a three month extension so that the vaccine program is well underway and (hopefully) spring brings about an additional drop in infections should be a no-brainer.

The Tories want Brexit done and dusted whilst everyone else is distracted by covid.

That's the reason for the indecent haste.

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