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I'm not disputing that.
I'm saying that at this stage it can't be anything other than political.
BTW you can add the Western Isles also at 0 covid cases.
Then there's Dumfries and Galloway with just 2 covid cases. In tier 4.
Then the entire Scottish Borders area with just 4 covid cases. In tier 4.
Shetland Islands with I think just 1 covid case. In tier 4.
Argyll and Bute with less than 5 covid cases. In tier 4.
That's half the geographical country right there. Closed down almost completely because of fewer than 12 covid cases with most of those being asymptomatic.
But seemingly you are not prepared to acknowledge that there might be politics afoot in these decisions.
Oh well. Fair enough.


As I work with numerous folk from Argyll and Bute I know for a fact that figure is wrong.

I don't know where you got your figures from as in the last 7 days, there has been 7 reported cases according to Public Health Scotland.

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

OK then. If this is all based on health data, explain why Orkney is in tier 4 of restrictions with no travel allowed outside their local area despite there not being a single case of covid on the islands?

 

To prevent importation of cases 

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I

17 minutes ago, insaintee said:

To prevent importation of cases 

 

4 minutes ago, antrin said:

Aye.

 

That was why Orkney happily prevented non-islanders and those with no REAL business using the Ferries to the Islands.

It seems to me that, while oaky's head may be stuffed full of scientific knowledge, all of the common sense has been ejected.

Edited by smcc
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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

I'm not disputing that.

I'm saying that at this stage it can't be anything other than political.

BTW you can add the Western Isles also at 0 covid cases.

Then there's Dumfries and Galloway with just 2 covid cases. In tier 4.

Then the entire Scottish Borders area with just 4 covid cases. In tier 4.

Shetland Islands with I think just 1 covid case. In tier 4.

Argyll and Bute with less than 5 covid cases. In tier 4.

That's half the geographical country right there. Closed down almost completely because of fewer than 12 covid cases with most of those being asymptomatic.

But seemingly you are not prepared to acknowledge that there might be politics afoot in these decisions.

Oh well. Fair enough.

You say it is all political based and not on health data but that's simply not true. The rest of your post has been the attitude that has largely seen many countries caught out multiple times by not acting cautious or promptly enough. We know how fast a wave can hit and how devastating it can be. We are rolling out a vaccine program, it isn't close to done, it hasn't even hit the 50% mark yet & there remains multiple unknowns over it. 

What you've quoted is very positive news but it doesn't mean a cautious and slow easing as vaccine rollout ramps up is not a scientifically sensible approach to the countries health. 

What's the political gain here? We have four different controlling political parties in the home nations and all have arrived at similar conclusions to ease the lockdown, that is mirrored in countless countries the world over at various stages of their journey. I'm struggling to see the pollical gain that governs these decisions you might be getting at.

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1 hour ago, WeeBud said:

I'm originally from an island in Argyll, still have a house there and haven't visited it since the summer.......the people on the island have requested that no-one outwith the island population or people on essential business be allowed on the island until three weeks after the lifting of the travel restrictions on April 26th, they took a vote/poll on the island and that was the outcome. The reasoning behind it being that they managed to keep Covid at bay by not having visitors and, using Barra as an example, want to make sure that continues. It doesn't suit everyone on the island but that has been the collective decision and if, as suggested, the FM will allow islanders to make their own decisions that's what it will be.....I think many of the areas you have quoted (especially Shetland and Western Isles) will be similar due to the age and vulnerability of their populations.

So like I said, the decision is political rather than based on health data.

At the moment you can't travel to those areas outwith your own local authority without good reason anyway.

Once the law changes I'm not sure what people on the islands can do to stop others visiting if they want to do so.

Edited by oaksoft
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1 hour ago, insaintee said:

To prevent importation of cases 

How does banning the full opening pubs in Orkney, Dumfries and Shetland when they have zero infections cause an importation of cases? That seems a reasonable question to ask.

Edited by oaksoft
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49 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

You say it is all political based and not on health data but that's simply not true. The rest of your post has been the attitude that has largely seen many countries caught out multiple times by not acting cautious or promptly enough. We know how fast a wave can hit and how devastating it can be. We are rolling out a vaccine program, it isn't close to done, it hasn't even hit the 50% mark yet & there remains multiple unknowns over it. 

What you've quoted is very positive news but it doesn't mean a cautious and slow easing as vaccine rollout ramps up is not a scientifically sensible approach to the countries health. 

What's the political gain here? We have four different controlling political parties in the home nations and all have arrived at similar conclusions to ease the lockdown, that is mirrored in countless countries the world over at various stages of their journey. I'm struggling to see the pollical gain that governs these decisions you might be getting at.

Zero cases baz.

Zero cases.

Perhaps they are cautiously waiting for cases to drop into negative numbers before reacting. :lol:

You are welcome to attempt an answer to my question about why pubs are currently not allowed to fully open in those areas when they have zero cases.

Edited by oaksoft
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52 minutes ago, smcc said:

I

 

It seems to me that, while oaky's head may be stuffed full of scientific knowledge, all of the common sense has been ejected.

Feel free to contribute something constructive once in a while. 

It's OK, the government have not banned that activity. :D

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1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:


 

 


As I work with numerous folk from Argyll and Bute I know for a fact that figure is wrong.

I don't know where you got your figures from as in the last 7 days, there has been 7 reported cases according to Public Health Scotland.
 

 

Are you actually splitting hairs over a couple of cases? :lol:

Fair enough.

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

So like I said, the decision is political rather than based on health data.

At the moment you can't travel to those areas outwith your own local authority without good reason anyway.

Once the law changes I'm not sure what people on the islands can do to stop others visiting if they want to do so.

It’s really about health in all honesty, it’s not there just now and the islanders want to see the effects of the loosening of travel restrictions before allowing free travel to the island......the FM has already said that the islands will have a say in when they are available to everyone. Barra had over 5% of its population contract the virus and had over 10% self isolating in an outbreak over a seven day period.....as I said the age and vulnerability of the island population puts it at more risk than mainland and very few of the islands have hospitals or hospital beds. 

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2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Zero cases baz.

Zero cases.

Perhaps they are cautiously waiting for cases to drop into negative numbers before reacting. :lol:

You are welcome to attempt an answer to my question about why pubs are currently not allowed to fully open in those areas when they have zero cases.

Wouldn't likely be zero if they opened up in a manner where people were coming in and out and mixing. 

You open pubs in these areas, you encourage travel to them and the virus spreads. You open pubs in a lot of places like this and don't allow travel, many may not have the business to keep them going as there will be a heavy tourism requirement for a lot I imagine. 

Edited by bazil85
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4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Feel free to contribute something constructive once in a while. 

It's OK, the government have not banned that activity. :D

Is it not constructive to suggest that you might develop some common sense?

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12 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Wouldn't likely be zero if they opened up in a manner where people were coming in and out and mixing. 

You open pubs in these areas, you encourage travel to them and the virus spreads. You open pubs in a lot of places like this and don't allow travel, many may not have the business to keep them going as there will be a heavy tourism requirement for a lot I imagine. 

OK so that is called not trusting the public and is a decision based on politics not health data. That's all I'm saying.

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13 hours ago, antrin said:

If the concept of self-preservation and protecting your loved ones can be construed as "political",  then you may be right.

I do like the smell of a bit of melodrama first thing in the morning.

Cannae beat it.

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13 hours ago, WeeBud said:

It’s really about health in all honesty, it’s not there just now and the islanders want to see the effects of the loosening of travel restrictions before allowing free travel to the island......the FM has already said that the islands will have a say in when they are available to everyone. Barra had over 5% of its population contract the virus and had over 10% self isolating in an outbreak over a seven day period.....as I said the age and vulnerability of the island population puts it at more risk than mainland and very few of the islands have hospitals or hospital beds. 

So why are the pubs not fully open on the islands if nobody is allowed to visit those islands and there are no cases there?

Why are there any restrictions at all at zero cases with nobody allowed in?

Edited by oaksoft
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15 hours ago, oaksoft said:

How does banning the full opening pubs in Orkney, Dumfries and Shetland when they have zero infections cause an importation of cases? That seems a reasonable question to ask.

People travel from the mainland to go to the pub. We have "covid" tourism now.  

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

OK so that is called not trusting the public and is a decision based on politics not health data. That's all I'm saying.

Do you not think fully trusting the public is a tiny bit idealistic given the last 14-15 months? We are also pretty close to people being allowed to travel for self catering breaks I believe, if a bunch of Scotland has open hospitality, people could technically legally go to these areas and use the pubs, I would bet they would in large numbers compared to places without open pubs. Again spreading the virus. 

For me it's where you draw the line regarding attendance to pubs in these areas, mitigation of such pent up want for many over the last year and management of the cost and reward for so many businesses in so many of these areas, especially if reliant on tourism. 

You can claim it's all political if you want but there is certainly economic and public health concerns that are factoring into keeping these places closed. 

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