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faraway saint

Coronavirus

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1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

Who said they lied?  :blink:

Blunders, aye, probably the same as 90% of every government in the world. 

Yes, they CAN be seen as blunders in HINDSIGHT as they were done using whatever data was available at the time. 

You do remember the amount of "scientists" that were coming out of the woodwork with various theories? 

Old ground, thanks for playing...............................onwards an upwards. :byebye

Flawed/Lied  - OK I'll concede the semantics - now why would they produce incorrect figures? :blink:

All the examples I gave in the previous post were predictable & were predicted, up until Lockdown3 the government consistently chose the gammon options - which cost people's lives. Different politicians in different countries making different mistakes doesn't change this..

Old ground indeed but then you've never had any convincing answers. :byebye

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14 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Flawed/Lied  - OK I'll concede the semantics - now why would they produce incorrect figures? :blink:

All the examples I gave in the previous post were predictable & were predicted, up until Lockdown3 the government consistently chose the gammon options - which cost people's lives. Different politicians in different countries making different mistakes doesn't change this..

Old ground indeed but then you've never had any convincing answers. :byebye

FFS, how many times, they use a different method of measurement, how many times or are you having a memory fart? 

Yawn, aye so you fail, which is a common trait of yours, to notice the government acted on advice available at the time.

Again, you always overlook the part that the good old British public played in this fiasco from day one.

As for answers, all you do is regurgitate unanswerable gripes so their is no "answer", certainly none that would suffice for the never ending political point scoring game you love to play. 

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32 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

FFS, how many times, they use a different method of measurement, how many times or are you having a memory fart? 

Yawn, aye so you fail, which is a common trait of yours, to notice the government acted on advice available at the time.

Again, you always overlook the part that the good old British public played in this fiasco from day one.

As for answers, all you do is regurgitate unanswerable gripes so their is no "answer", certainly none that would suffice for the never ending political point scoring game you love to play. 

How many times to I have to remind you that there is no benefit for the ONS in providing inaccurate figures while there is clearly a benefit to the government in providing artificially low figures? Why do you think the government's figure is more accurate and once again why would the ONS provide inaccurate figures and numerous respected scientist back them as being correct? 

Even the Daily Mail knows which figure is correct...

UK's real Covid death toll hits 150,000, according to the Office for National Statistics | Daily Mail Online

Quote

 

UK's real Covid death toll hits 150,000

****************************

Yeah, sure the public at large haven't been blameless during the pandemic, I don't think I've ever said otherwise, but given the clusterfuck of gammon prevarication the government chose to follow during the first 9 months of the pandemic I still say the bulk of the blame like at the top.

Are  the following unanswerable gripes, saying we should have followed the majority advice of the government's scientific advisors all along and that now we have a roadmap out of lockdown we should stick to it? I'd say No & No.

 

Edited by Bud the Baker

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On 4/6/2021 at 4:46 PM, faraway saint said:

When I was down the town earlier I drove passed a wee "back street" barber with about 10 people queueing up outside.

Quite why they were so desperate for a haircut to be standing outside for quite some time is beyond me, not as if they have anywhere special to be going.

Never mind, nice to see the local small business's getting some income. 

I drove past the same barber yesterday, 9 people (I counted very carefully) waiting outside, couldn't tell how many were inside.

It seems officialdom hasn't reached Arbroath as yet. :rolleyes:

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17 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

How many times to I have to remind you that there is no benefit for the ONS in providing inaccurate figures while there is clearly a benefit to the government in providing artificially low figures? Why do you think the government's figure is more accurate and once again why would the ONS provide inaccurate figures and numerous respected scientist back them as being correct? 

Even the Daily Mail knows which figure is correct...

UK's real Covid death toll hits 150,000, according to the Office for National Statistics | Daily Mail Online

****************************

Yeah, sure the public at large haven't been blameless during the pandemic, I don't think I've ever said otherwise, but given the clusterfuck of gammon prevarication the government chose to follow during the first 9 months of the pandemic I still say the bulk of the blame like at the top.

Are  the following unanswerable gripes, saying we should have followed the majority advice of the government's scientific advisors all along and that now we have a roadmap out of lockdown we should stick to it? I'd say No & No.

 

4 massive questions Johnson wont be accountable for until the Tory party decides to stab him in back 

Delay in initial Lockdown

PPE and the dodgy contracts to pals

Delay in Late Autumn Lockdown

Allowing Xmas mixing

 

 

Personally I think Brexit will be the eventual Tory downfall as you cant get a vaccine for that

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

4 massive questions Johnson wont be accountable for until the Tory party decides to stab him in back 

Delay in initial Lockdown

PPE and the dodgy contracts to pals

Delay in Late Autumn Lockdown

Allowing Xmas mixing

 

 

Personally I think Brexit will be the eventual Tory downfall as you cant get a vaccine for that

 

 

 

There would have been less deaths if there had been no lockdowns.

Lockdowns spared the middle class lefties and their useful idiots (you being a useful idiot) and killed the vulnerable.

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On 4/8/2021 at 12:47 PM, Bud the Baker said:

The government's gammonesque policies wrt the pandemic from March-December 2020 were a disaster and the reason for many of the 150,000 Covid deaths the UK has suffered - that's all been pointed out before.

Since then a combination of a successful vaccination program and a third lockdown has brought the situation back under control. We currently have a route out of Lockdown "dates based on data" which I see no need to change.

It would've seemed incredible 3/4 month's ago but our leader and self-styled "King of the World" is likely to come out of this smelling of roses:king!🌺

He must be a dancing a little jig of joy at today's news.

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On 4/8/2021 at 9:30 AM, bazil85 said:

Do you not think fully trusting the public is a tiny bit idealistic given the last 14-15 months? We are also pretty close to people being allowed to travel for self catering breaks I believe, if a bunch of Scotland has open hospitality, people could technically legally go to these areas and use the pubs, I would bet they would in large numbers compared to places without open pubs. Again spreading the virus. 

For me it's where you draw the line regarding attendance to pubs in these areas, mitigation of such pent up want for many over the last year and management of the cost and reward for so many businesses in so many of these areas, especially if reliant on tourism. 

You can claim it's all political if you want but there is certainly economic and public health concerns that are factoring into keeping these places closed. 

Just saying that trust in people is a political thing not health based.

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On 4/8/2021 at 11:30 AM, WeeBud said:

Because "essential workers" are allowed onto the islands and generally stay in the hotels which are attached to the local pubs. If the pubs are open to all then the "essential workers" will mix with the locals in a bar with alcohol flowing and, as always with alcohol, peoples inhibitions and awareness of their environment will drop.....it really is pretty simple!!

In that case, simple is the wrong word and here's why.

What exactly are they waiting for? Zero covid cases anywhere in the world? That will never be the case in just the UK never mind the rest of the world. 

So the only logical conclusion to your argument here is that they're going to stop all tourism permanently.

No trade, no tourism, no imports to the area, no exports. You can't "fear" your way out of covid.

That sounds anything but simple to me but then again, I don't have to live there so I'm not affected by this madness.

Edited by oaksoft

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On 4/8/2021 at 4:20 PM, Bud the Baker said:

Everyone's got an agenda, even you I daresay. My opinion is that the government's preferred count is wrong and I've cited organizations and Scientists who have provided a more accurate one, I trust them above a proven liar with a reason to minimize the death toll and his gammon acolytes. Once again I'll ask the question you've never answered :rolleyes: - why would the ONS & the scientists who've backed them lie?

None of these blunders below can be put down to hindsight

  • The "non policy" of herd immunity that meant we went into Lockdown1 too late
  • Not making mask wearing compulsory in enclosed spaces compulsory coming out of Lockdown1.
  • Going into Lockdown2 too late (go back to Oct4/p323 of this thread) 
  • England coming out of their second lockdown too soon and putting London into Tier2 when the new variant was exploding down there - how many lives did that cost BJ?
  • The Christmas fiasco (again go back to Oct4/p323 of this thread)

Any suggestions that the Covid getting worse over the winter was not foreseeable/inevitable and that the peak would be in the "flu season" Jan/Feb are apologies and not very convincing ones at that!

If only scientists and governments across the world had listened to you at every step of the way there would have been zero deaths from covid. :rolleyes:

When oh when will the experts learn to immediately call in bakers, butchers, candlestick makers and biology teachers in these difficult situations? It's just not on you know. Hmmmph!

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7 hours ago, DougJamie said:

4 massive questions Johnson wont be accountable for until the Tory party decides to stab him in back 

Delay in initial Lockdown

PPE and the dodgy contracts to pals

Delay in Late Autumn Lockdown

Allowing Xmas mixing

 

 

Personally I think Brexit will be the eventual Tory downfall as you cant get a vaccine for that

 

 

 

Take out "Brexit" and substitute any other word and you have a phrase which people have been saying for more than 40 years and yet they are still in power. Blair only got in because he moved to the right enough to be palatable to the electorate.

It's very hard to imagine exactly what it will take to shift the Tories out of power.

I suspect it will need someone to provide an alternative and inspirational image of the future of the country rather than constant moaning but I'm no expert.

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15 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

In that case, simple is the wrong word and here's why.

What exactly are they waiting for? Zero covid cases anywhere in the world? That will never be the case in just the UK never mind the rest of the world. 

So the only logical conclusion to your argument here is that they're going to stop all tourism permanently.

No trade, no tourism, no imports to the area, no exports. You can't "fear" your way out of covid.

That sounds anything but simple to me but then again, I don't have to live there so I'm not affected by this madness.

Erm...

...you're the guy that thought NZ would suffer when it “starts to trade again”.

Has that penny still not dropped?

 

Normal business and trade has continued between all nations (and with the Scottish islands) throughout the pandemic!

Supermarkets and similar food outlets are still functioning, open for trade...

Tourism and family/friendly/nosey visiting is all that lockdowns hope to impede, so that spread of virus is reduced.

business and trade are little effected.  Any supplies problems we may have in the UK are the result of Brexit f**kups.

 

NZ is still trading...  need I go on?

 

Edited by antrin

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3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Take out "Brexit" and substitute any other word and you have a phrase which people have been saying for more than 40 years and yet they are still in power. Blair only got in because he moved to the right enough to be palatable to the electorate.

It's very hard to imagine exactly what it will take to shift the Tories out of power.

I suspect it will need someone to provide an alternative and inspirational image of the future of the country rather than constant moaning but I'm no expert.

Fair do’s...

You’re not always wrong...

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4 minutes ago, antrin said:

Erm...

...you're the guy that thought NZ would suffer when it “starts to trade again”.

Has that penny still not dropped?

 

Normal business and trade has continued between all nations throughout the pandemic!

Supermarkets and similar food outlets are still functioning, open for trade...

Tourism and family/friendly/nosey visiting is all that lockdowns hope to impede, so that spread of virus is reduced.

business and trade are little effected.  Any supplies problems we may have in the UK are the result of Brexit f**kups.

 

NZ is still trading...  need I go on?

 

726,000 have lost jobs down to Covid. :blink:

You are a worry, are you ok? :1eye

 

Edited by faraway saint

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4 minutes ago, antrin said:

Erm...

...you're the guy that thought NZ would suffer when it “starts to trade again”.

Has that penny still not dropped?

 

Normal business and trade has continued between all nations (and with the Scottish islands) throughout the pandemic!

Supermarkets and similar food outlets are still functioning, open for trade...

Tourism and family/friendly/nosey visiting is all that lockdowns hope to impede, so that spread of virus is reduced.

business and trade are little effected.  Any supplies problems we may have in the UK are the result of Brexit f**kups.

 

NZ is still trading...  need I go on?

 

Business and trade are unaffected?

Seriously?

If that's your honest opinion then I'm happy to leave it at that although I thought you were a bit more informed than that.

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11 minutes ago, antrin said:

business and trade are little effected.  Any supplies problems we may have in the UK are the result of Brexit f**kups.

 

Oh and that's not true either.

Ports are full of ships which can't be moved right now due to covid restrictions. That is causing major supply issues across the world with new ships coming in to port unable to dock to unload.

How exactly is Brexit causing supply issues for countries worldwide? How is Brexit causing delays in materials and other stuff coming into the UK from China?

The pandemic has caused massive business and trade problems across the world. Millions of jobs have disappeared and are unlikely to return. Owners of many of those businesses of ALL sizes (not just big companies) have lost everything. Vast swathes of the entire hospitality and aviation industries are on the verge of permanent closure.

Get yourself more educated before you post dismissive, arrogant rubbish.

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Just saying that trust in people is a political thing not health based.

Your point was along the lines that restrictions are based on political not health guidance. That isn’t true, sure there is obviously political decision just like anything else that governs the nation but restrictions are for reasons beyond the political.
 

It is perfectly reasonable and logical from a health of the population perspective to be very cautious in returning to normality. 

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5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Oh and that's not true either.

Ports are full of ships which can't be moved right now due to covid restrictions. That is causing major supply issues across the world with new ships coming in to port unable to dock to unload.

How exactly is Brexit causing supply issues for countries worldwide? How is Brexit causing delays in materials and other stuff coming into the UK from China?

The pandemic has caused massive business and trade problems across the world. Millions of jobs have disappeared and are unlikely to return. Owners of many of those businesses of ALL sizes (not just big companies) have lost everything. Vast swathes of the entire hospitality and aviation industries are on the verge of permanent closure.

Get yourself more educated before you post dismissive, arrogant rubbish.

I can’t respond to your self-inflicted paranoia.

I can only suggest that you actually read my posts...

Any supplies problems we may have in the UK are the result of Brexit f**kups.”.

Your worldview is YOURS.  I spoke of uk and brexit.

and - Again - Tourism, hospitality and aviation do not actually represent the be-all and end-all of TRADE, which you claim had miraculously ceased to be!

 

I’m fully aware that jobs have been lost ( mine!) and that businesses I use have been crippled -  (hotels, travel, tourism) but international trade has gone on as it would.

Your bellies are not rumbling, the stores are not closed.  Trade has persisted.

Boats not in use are currently not needed eg tour boats. Or oil carriers. No big deal.

 

 

Edited by antrin

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For what it’s worth...  Dow Jones, S + P, Nasdaq, footsie and many other foreign exchange markets have kept rising. (Some at new, record-breaking highs!).

I feel that if all trade had ceased, there might have been a more negative reaction from those mere arbiters of economic reality, but doubtless you are better informed?

Edited by antrin

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4 minutes ago, antrin said:

For what it’s worth...  Dow Jones, S + P, Nasdaq, footsie and many other foreign exchange markets have kept rising. (Some at new, record-breaking highs!).

I feel that if all trade had ceased, there might have been a more negative reaction from those mere arbiters of economic reality, but doubtless you are better informed?

I'm sure the thousands of people made redundant and small business's will take some solace in your never tiring drivel. 🤡

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