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faraway saint

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It should be remembered that Covid hasn't been the MAIN reason a percentage of reported deaths have died. 

This, I wonder who came up with this, idea that as long as some poor soul has HAD covid within 28 days of passing away they are recorded on the Covid death toll.

If deaths were only recorded when Covid had actually been responsible, the numbers would be considerably less and the restrictions, and justification, could easily be reduced.

ETA

Best numbers I can find show a 10% difference in the UK, although I seem to remember an early study in Italy putting this closer to 80%

Edited by faraway saint
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17 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

It should be remembered that Covid hasn't been the MAIN reason a percentage of reported deaths have died. 

This, I wonder who came up with this, idea that as long as some poor soul has HAD covid within 28 days of passing away they are recorded on the Covid death toll.

If deaths were only recorded when Covid had actually been responsible, the numbers would be considerably less and the restrictions, and justification, could easily be reduced.

Best estimate puts the number of deaths in the 28 days stats where Covid had been the cause and not just coincidental at around or slightly less than 90% of cases. There will also be people that die after 28 days from Covid that are not counted as Covid cause despite it being true. So no, it wouldn't be "considerably less" in fact it seems possible/ likely it could be more if the after 28 day stats are more than the roughly 10% coincidental deaths. 

The reason this parameter was set is to save all the additional statistical analysis and resource needed during a pandemic to review large numbers of deaths, but it still capturing quite closely the death impacts of Covid and gives a worthwhile picture. 

This has been known and available online to investigate for a long time. Would say this highlights the significant lack of understanding on your part about this pandemic. 

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n352

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/deathssolelyfromcovid19ratherthandeathswithin28daysofapositivetest

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^^^^^^^^ My wee pal appears in this thread after I post anything,yet, after last night's tremendous result for the team he posts the square root of feck all in the match day thread.

Funny that.

I haven't bothered reading his desperate attempts to justify the over reaction, it's in his DNA to be a sheep, and a cowardly one at that. 

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14 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

^^^^^^^^ My wee pal appears in this thread after I post anything,yet, after last night's tremendous result for the team he posts the square root of feck all in the match day thread.

Funny that.

I haven't bothered reading his desperate attempts to justify the over reaction, it's in his DNA to be a sheep, and a cowardly one at that. 

Root cause for Faraway's ignorance throughout this pandemic I would say. :whistle

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Wee Nicky's done it again, not listening to the science so there's no change to the current 10 day isolation period.

This will continue to damage the very services she's repeatedly saying she's trying to protect.

With absence rates going through the roof things will only get worse.

Again, it's ok for the "we get paid when we're off" crew but you can just financially suffer if you're not fortunate enough to be on that particular bus. 

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Wee Nicky's done it again, not listening to the science so there's no change to the current 10 day isolation period.
This will continue to damage the very services she's repeatedly saying she's trying to protect.
With absence rates going through the roof things will only get worse.
Again, it's ok for the "we get paid when we're off" crew but you can just financially suffer if you're not fortunate enough to be on that particular bus. 
What science did she not listen to?
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17 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:
22 minutes ago, faraway saint said:
Wee Nicky's done it again, not listening to the science so there's no change to the current 10 day isolation period.
This will continue to damage the very services she's repeatedly saying she's trying to protect.
With absence rates going through the roof things will only get worse.
Again, it's ok for the "we get paid when we're off" crew but you can just financially suffer if you're not fortunate enough to be on that particular bus. 

What science did she not listen to?

Don't you listen to the latest findings that the new variant is less harmful so, therefore, thousands of people are needlessly isolating?

Edited by faraway saint
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What science did she not listen to?
Two reports that were shared by Douglas Ross at FMQT. One UK report, the other from a Scottish virologist.

The guidelines are a clusterpuck for employers and advice even from within the NHS and NHS Inform continually contradicts itself.

Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk

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Don't listen to the latest findings that the new variant is less harmful so, therefore, thousands of people are needlessly isolating?
As you obviously never listened, I'll quote you two medical experts regarding the research. [emoji14]

Dr Jim McMenamin, the national Covid-19 incident director at Public Health Scotland,
He said the data was "filling in a blank" about protection against hospitalisation, but cautioned it was "important we don't get ahead of ourselves".

Prof Mark Woolhouse, from the University of Edinburgh,
He said "An individual infection could be relatively mild for the vast majority of people, but the potential is for all these infections to come at once and put serious strain on the NHS remains."

The report is promising and there can not be one person who hopes its not that at the very least. But the calculations it is based on as the experts say are to early to be categorically sound.

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17 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

As you obviously never listened, I'll quote you two medical experts regarding the research. emoji14.png

Dr Jim McMenamin, the national Covid-19 incident director at Public Health Scotland,
He said the data was "filling in a blank" about protection against hospitalisation, but cautioned it was "important we don't get ahead of ourselves".

Prof Mark Woolhouse, from the University of Edinburgh,
He said "An individual infection could be relatively mild for the vast majority of people, but the potential is for all these infections to come at once and put serious strain on the NHS remains."

The report is promising and there can not be one person who hopes its not that at the very least. But the calculations it is based on as the experts say are to early to be categorically sound.
 

The "vast majority" yet the rules are being tightened for the small minority. :lol:

It seems you failed to see that I was clearly referring to the astounding decision to stay with the 10 day isolation period. :lol:

Aye, and the reason to isolate for an astounding 10 days is................................oh, there isn't one. :byebye

Oh, this "new" information has been coming out of South Africa for some time, which, AGAIN, has nowhere near the vaccination levels we have.

AGAIN, are we going to close down the economy and living EVERY winter, or anytime a new variant shows up? 

"Categorically sound" when wee Nicky herself said this isn't an exact science, so it's her decision/interpretation. 

Edited by faraway saint
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A lot of the heat on the subject of omicron  comes from overpaid and over rated  special  advisors who have never weilded  a scalpel or emptied a bed pan.

 

Australia  is taking the route of people being  responsible  for their health and using common sense  in their daily lives ,no shutdown.

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The "vast majority" yet the rules are being tightened for the small minority. [emoji38]
It seems you failed to see that I was clearly referring to the astounding decision to stay with the 10 day isolation period. [emoji38]
Aye, and the reason to isolate for an astounding 10 days is................................oh, there isn't one. :byebye
Oh, this "new" information has been coming out of South Africa for some time, which, AGAIN, has nowhere near the vaccination levels we have.
AGAIN, are we going to close down the economy and living EVERY winter, or anytime a new variant shows up? 
"Categorically sound" when wee Nicky herself said this isn't an exact science, so it's her decision/interpretation. 


Could be. Not definitely but by definition could for the vast majority.

This may help regarding 10 day isolation period.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/omicron-incubation-period-days-signs-b1981265.html

Yip, my bad wording. Likewise you seem fixated that this is just a winter thing. The NHS is traditionally busier during the winter months but unfortunately this variant never thought to materialise during our summer months when we usually have less admissions to our hospitals.

Hopefully there won't be another but if we ask nicely maybe it will develop just in time for your summer holiday to be cancelled. [emoji14]
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3 hours ago, eastlandssaint said:

Medication time! Doubt it will stop there, every three months mass booster vaccination programmes, even though the WHO themselves said this is pointless and takes away from poorer countries with low vaccination rates.

Still not getting my pointless booster, because it's not especially beneficial and also ethically wrong.

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3 hours ago, Hendo said:

Medication time! Doubt it will stop there, every three months mass booster vaccination programmes, even though the WHO themselves said this is pointless and takes away from poorer countries with low vaccination rates.

Still not getting my pointless booster, because it's not especially beneficial and also ethically wrong.

The booster isn't pointless in improving the chances of this variant causing harm but, sit down, I agree 100% that there's questionable benefits in your, and anybody's lifestyle.

It's utter madness that the vast majority of people have had vaccinations yet are still subjected to ludicrous restrictions on a normal life.

Mask wearing, social distancing, how many people you can/can't meet up with, places you can't go, is this what we are to look forward to for us and our families?

The ever cautious, like the snowflakes, are taking over and leading us to a joyless future.

 

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32 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

The booster isn't pointless in improving the chances of this variant causing harm but, sit down, I agree 100% that there's questionable benefits in your, and anybody's lifestyle.

It's utter madness that the vast majority of people have had vaccinations yet are still subjected to ludicrous restrictions on a normal life.

Mask wearing, social distancing, how many people you can/can't meet up with, places you can't go, is this what we are to look forward to for us and our families?

The ever cautious, like the snowflakes, are taking over and leading us to a joyless future.

 

Especially as just over a month ago, we were being asked to take strangers into our homes from all around the world. That was OK, and now we can't go to the football or the carnival. Shameful.

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I'm tired.
I'm fed up.
I'm pissed off.
I've done everything I can.
Yet today I had to go for a PCR test as a close contact and close down our work 2 days early due (unnecessarily) to lack of staff!

How can I lead a team when our leaders refuse to lead either by reliable advice or example?

I want to tell my team facts and be confident in my advice... But continually come up against conflicting advice!

All that said... I read this post on social media tonight from a friend...

Ooookay.
Questions for the anti vaxxers out there.
Why are you so angry?
Why do you insist on "my body my choice" for yourselves but deny that choice to people who choose to take the vaccine?

No one in UK is being forced to get vaccinated. Not everyone who is choosing to get vaccinated is doing it from fear. Many of us are doing it from a sense of community and collective responsibility.
And yet you shout at those people and accuse them of being "sheep" and (that cliche term) sheeple.
How do you know you've taken the red pill and not the blue one*?

I don't know either, but I'm only going from my own experience. Whch includes many friends who have been diagnosed with "covid" and who have suffered illness far worse than flu. Some have been hospitalised, and ventilated, several are still suffering many months later, and some haven't survived. I also know a (very) few who have had adverse reactions to a vaccine, but still choose to support it. And yet you insist that Covid doesn't exist, that it's "just flu" or " a cold". Frankly, that's an insult to my friends who have been ill in the last 2 years.

Of recent experience 2 of us who had a booster jab had a significantly easier time than those who hadn't. 7 of us were infected and became ill in 2 days from exposure to 1 person. Masks, distancing, hand sanitising etc all work (again from my direct experience).

What makes you think that our current govt is capable of conspiracy on this scale? They are planning stuff much more insidious, but it's out in the open, and going thro the legislative process right now.

I'm old enough to remember family stories of times before we had an NHS. Of high infant mortaility, and diseases for which there is now a vaccine/cure being a death sentence, that were talked of in hushed tones. Of my mum's best friend being in a TB sanitorium for 2 years. My own best friend's big sister having a lifelong calliper on her leg, and narrowly avoiding dying of polio. Of the relief in the talk by my Granma (b 1889) and aunties that there was now a vaccination for such things, and for measles, smallpox and more.

*Contemporary film ref for those of a geeky bent ;-)

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6 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

I'm tired.
I'm fed up.
I'm pissed off.
I've done everything I can.
Yet today I had to go for a PCR test as a close contact and close down our work 2 days early due (unnecessarily) to lack of staff!

How can I lead a team when our leaders refuse to lead either by reliable advice or example?

I want to tell my team facts and be confident in my advice... But continually come up against conflicting advice!

All that said... I read this post on social media tonight from a friend...

Ooookay.
Questions for the anti vaxxers out there.
Why are you so angry?
Why do you insist on "my body my choice" for yourselves but deny that choice to people who choose to take the vaccine?

No one in UK is being forced to get vaccinated. Not everyone who is choosing to get vaccinated is doing it from fear. Many of us are doing it from a sense of community and collective responsibility.
And yet you shout at those people and accuse them of being "sheep" and (that cliche term) sheeple.
How do you know you've taken the red pill and not the blue one*?

I don't know either, but I'm only going from my own experience. Whch includes many friends who have been diagnosed with "covid" and who have suffered illness far worse than flu. Some have been hospitalised, and ventilated, several are still suffering many months later, and some haven't survived. I also know a (very) few who have had adverse reactions to a vaccine, but still choose to support it. And yet you insist that Covid doesn't exist, that it's "just flu" or " a cold". Frankly, that's an insult to my friends who have been ill in the last 2 years.

Of recent experience 2 of us who had a booster jab had a significantly easier time than those who hadn't. 7 of us were infected and became ill in 2 days from exposure to 1 person. Masks, distancing, hand sanitising etc all work (again from my direct experience).

What makes you think that our current govt is capable of conspiracy on this scale? They are planning stuff much more insidious, but it's out in the open, and going thro the legislative process right now.

I'm old enough to remember family stories of times before we had an NHS. Of high infant mortaility, and diseases for which there is now a vaccine/cure being a death sentence, that were talked of in hushed tones. Of my mum's best friend being in a TB sanitorium for 2 years. My own best friend's big sister having a lifelong calliper on her leg, and narrowly avoiding dying of polio. Of the relief in the talk by my Granma (b 1889) and aunties that there was now a vaccination for such things, and for measles, smallpox and more.

*Contemporary film ref for those of a geeky bent 😉

Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk
 

From what I have seen on social media, both "sides" are as bad as the other, with those who don't want to get the vaccine also branded as covidiots. Neither side seems to respect individual choice.

There is an argument that taking the vaccine is a sign of social solidarity. This would be valid if the vaccine stopped you getting covid or spreading it, as it would then mean if everyone was vaccinated, covid would be eradicated.

However, this is not the situation. This vaccine is shit compared to other vaccines. Even now, they are talking about needing a 4th dose and it's effectiveness will reduce drastically after 9 or 10 weeks. 

What I have seen over the last few months is anecdote being passed off as fact and those epidemiologists with different views, of which they are many, being denied air time. There is no debate, just a narrative and a very uncomfortable feeling that if you challenge that narrative you are somehow viewed as some conspiracy theorist crackpot. 

Edited by Hendo
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So , am I reading this right ?

In Scotland you have to isolate for 10 days.

In Wales you have to isolate for 10 days.

In N.Ireland you have to isolate for 10 days.

In England you have to isolate for 7 days. 
 

We keep getting told by Dross etc that we are one United Kingdom made up of four equal partners yet somehow the 75% of countries in the UK have to kowtow to the rules made by the remaining 25% on a couple of reports which would indicate it may be ok to switch to 7 days but yet seem to like using “might” ,”could be” and “we think” when pressed .🤷‍♂️

 

I don’t know if 7 or 10 is the right path , I’m sure no one on here does either and for every so called expert who says 7 I’m sure you’ll find another who disagrees . Also , data will be interpreted differently by different people, throughout this pandemic we have had mountains of advice which was the right thing to do one day and wrong the next .


 

 

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1 hour ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

So , am I reading this right ?

In Scotland you have to isolate for 10 days.

In Wales you have to isolate for 10 days.

In N.Ireland you have to isolate for 10 days.

In England you have to isolate for 7 days. 
 

We keep getting told by Dross etc that we are one United Kingdom made up of four equal partners yet somehow the 75% of countries in the UK have to kowtow to the rules made by the remaining 25% on a couple of reports which would indicate it may be ok to switch to 7 days but yet seem to like using “might” ,”could be” and “we think” when pressed .🤷‍♂️

 

I don’t know if 7 or 10 is the right path , I’m sure no one on here does either and for every so called expert who says 7 I’m sure you’ll find another who disagrees . Also , data will be interpreted differently by different people, throughout this pandemic we have had mountains of advice which was the right thing to do one day and wrong the next .


 

 

The 7 days is dependent on 2 LFT's being taken on days 6 & 7 and both being negative.

Seems pretty reasonable and would allow those who are well enough, the majority, to return to a normal life and work. 

Edited by faraway saint
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‘As a doctor, it pains me to say this, but I believe that this climate of dread is being deliberately manufactured’. Prof Angus Dalgleish

Sturgeon spoke of a ‘Tsunami’. Boris described it as a ‘tidal wave’. 6 weeks on it hasn’t happened. ( I said at the time these words were unnecessary)

The South African Medical Association warned we were overreacting to Omicron. (Also was mentioned but for some reason these people were not taken seriously)

Christopher Witty said ‘idea that Omicron is milder is a myth’. The Data along with studies in Scotland and England now suggest otherwise. (Witty, a puppet)

Sage has now admitted their scenarios are not accurate.

Now medical voices are speaking out.

#travelindustry , #hospitalityindustry , #sportingevents are all being decimated in the name of political point scoring.
 

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Remind you of anybody? 🤡

Cautious

This flies in the face of those who favour the ‘just-in-case’ argument: that we must be extra cautious and ready to lock down early again, lest the new variant prove more dangerous than anticipated.

That argument was valid at the start of the pandemic, when we lacked treatments and vaccinations. But it does not hold any longer.

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On 2/15/2020 at 9:53 AM, faraway saint said:

What a fuss about the flu, not a lot happening to see this warrant the amount of coverage and panic.

 

Little did I know this would come true..................

Richard Adams
Fri, 24 December 2021, 2:18 pm
 
 
 
 
Photograph: Yelizaveta Tomashevska/Alamy

The most widespread symptoms of the Omicron variant now match those of common colds, with calls for the government to update its public health messaging to include a wider number of likely Covid symptoms.

The most common symptoms reported among users of the Zoe Covid app have been a running nose, headaches, fatigue, sneezing and sore throats, according to the study’s most recent analysis of confirmed cases in London.

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Quote

"When we have millions and millions and millions of people, all sick, all together at one time, it doesn't take a large percentage of those people to topple over the hospitals," Dr Hallie Prescott, associate professor of internal medicine at the University of Michigan, told the New York Times.

Just to provide some balance.

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