Slarti Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 I think part of the beauty of scientific advancement is that someone puts out their thoughts and they are challenged by others. Scientists setting out ideas and other scientists offering comment, corrections. the “problem” arises when fruitcakes on the interweb offer opinions on a subject that are not based on any noticeable brain power.Aye, but obviously the scientific method doesn't work and we should get all our knowledge from these fruitcake with no expertise in the field. It makes sense to me, I'm off to ask my dogs what they think. [emoji16] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 With nearly 1m people either getting the booster or getting the omicron covid ,surely the peak of this current wave will be only weeks away and should drop very qucklyNot really sure what you're getting at there, the first part doesn't make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 59 minutes ago, antrin said: I think part of the beauty of scientific advancement is that someone puts out their thoughts and they are challenged by others. Scientists setting out ideas and other scientists offering comment, corrections. the “problem” arises when fruitcakes on the interweb offer opinions on a subject that are not based on any noticeable brain power. My point is challenge is no longer allowed. There is a narrative which must be advanced. Mainstream media gives only one viewpoint. On twitter, if you wade through people with no specific knowledge in this area, you do find scientists, epidemiologists and those with a knowledge challenging the current narrative - but they are nowhere to be seen on mainstream media. I wonder why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 1 minute ago, Hendo said: My point is challenge is no longer allowed. There is a narrative which must be advanced. Mainstream media gives only one viewpoint. On twitter, if you wade through people with no specific knowledge in this area, you do find scientists, epidemiologists and those with a knowledge challenging the current narrative - but they are nowhere to be seen on mainstream media. I wonder why. Sorry, Buddie… …but I’ve been following the interesting development of this pandemic closely and so far haven’t been convinced by any suggestions that pandemic scientists are not offering sane, sensible, evidence-based information to the politicians. There have been fruitcakes aplenty, of course…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 1 hour ago, antrin said: Sorry, Buddie… …but I’ve been following the interesting development of this pandemic closely and so far haven’t been convinced by any suggestions that pandemic scientists are not offering sane, sensible, evidence-based information to the politicians. There have been fruitcakes aplenty, of course…. So, just for starters - Boosters for everyone - SAGE backed this, others such as Dr Sarah Gilbert and others disagreed. Repeated lockdowns and restrictions, even when the vast majority are vaccinated. Vaccine passports, even though vaccines don't stop transmission so this is not a public health measure - some like Alysson Pollock from Newcastle University have been very vocal on this. Their "sane advice" is open to scrutiny, or at least it should be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 No replies.......I'm either on ignore or have embarrassed someone with their own stats.[emoji1787] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 3 hours ago, Slarti said: So the unvaccinated are more likely to have the earlier "more dangerous" ones? You could be forgiven for thinking that the vaccines were doing good then. Against delta, perhaps. Against omicron, not so good. My point is the government told us that 2 doses of the vaccine was ineffective against omicron, but your immunity was much better with the booster. This was an attempt to get people to get boosted, which millions did - but there was no evidence to back up their claims. They maybe hoped it would, and took a punt - on the basis it wouldn't make things worse, but their claim that it would make things better had almost no scientific basis, and they knew it. This is exactly how the government have treated the public- condescending, lacking in transparency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 33 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: No replies.......I'm either on ignore or have embarrassed someone with their own stats. My own stats are that it looks sadly like the vaccine and the booster is ineffective against omicron. Probably won't get that on the bbc though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 16 minutes ago, Hendo said: My own stats are that it looks sadly like the vaccine and the booster is ineffective against omicron. Probably won't get that on the bbc though... My own stats say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 Against delta, perhaps. Against omicron, not so good. My point is the government told us that 2 doses of the vaccine was ineffective against omicron, but your immunity was much better with the booster. This was an attempt to get people to get boosted, which millions did - but there was no evidence to back up their claims. They maybe hoped it would, and took a punt - on the basis it wouldn't make things worse, but their claim that it would make things better had almost no scientific basis, and they knew it. This is exactly how the government have treated the public- condescending, lacking in transparency. I think you just don't understand what the stats are actually saying. To be able to say that the booster isn't offering protection from omicron you would have to look at more than just infected people. Just saying that, of those infected, more "boosted" people are getting the more prevalent and contagious variant than the other variants does not mean that it isn't offering protection, it just means that the the most prevalent and contagious variant is infecting more people, as you would expect. If you are looking for a 100% guarantee of no infection after 3 jags then you are onto plums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 12 minutes ago, Slarti said: 46 minutes ago, Hendo said: Against delta, perhaps. Against omicron, not so good. My point is the government told us that 2 doses of the vaccine was ineffective against omicron, but your immunity was much better with the booster. This was an attempt to get people to get boosted, which millions did - but there was no evidence to back up their claims. They maybe hoped it would, and took a punt - on the basis it wouldn't make things worse, but their claim that it would make things better had almost no scientific basis, and they knew it. This is exactly how the government have treated the public- condescending, lacking in transparency. I think you just don't understand what the stats are actually saying. To be able to say that the booster isn't offering protection from omicron you would have to look at more than just infected people. Just saying that, of those infected, more "boosted" people are getting the more prevalent and contagious variant than the other variants does not mean that it isn't offering protection, it just means that the the most prevalent and contagious variant is infecting more people, as you would expect. If you are looking for a 100% guarantee of no infection after 3 jags then you are onto plums. It means that of people infected, those boosted are most likely to be infected. You might say that that's to be expected, but if the govt view that the booster protected against the newer variant, you would expect numbers for boosted to be less than other groups - and they are much more. This might not disprove original govt statements but certainly cast doubt over them. Which brings me back to the main point - the govt claimed the booster was what was needed to protect people against the new variant, but provided no evidence of this. It is manipulation of evidence and people. I get that this is difficult to hear, as people have placed their trust in those in authority and the vaccines to get us out of this mess. But here we are, 83% double jabbed, more than 50% boosted, and restrictions just re-introduced. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted December 26, 2021 Report Share Posted December 26, 2021 It means that of people infected, those boosted are most likely to be infected.No, it doesn't. It really doesn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 4 hours ago, Hendo said: It means that of people infected, those boosted are most likely to be infected. You might say that that's to be expected, but if the govt view that the booster protected against the newer variant, you would expect numbers for boosted to be less than other groups - and they are much more. This might not disprove original govt statements but certainly cast doubt over them. Which brings me back to the main point - the govt claimed the booster was what was needed to protect people against the new variant, but provided no evidence of this. It is manipulation of evidence and people. I get that this is difficult to hear, as people have placed their trust in those in authority and the vaccines to get us out of this mess. But here we are, 83% double jabbed, more than 50% boosted, and restrictions just re-introduced. Go figure. No, it f**kin diesn’t! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Diesn’t = doesn’t. Plus, Hendo…. You cannot be serious!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Back to the isolation period, the average contagious period is 10 days after the onset of symptoms. If it's very mild, and for many, almost unnoticeable, and you don't do a test for, just for a number, after 6 days, surely you should be able to resume a normal life as soon as you have 2 days showing a negative LFT? There shouldn't be a set period, causing people, business's and services avoidable costs? As @Cookie Monster mentioned, this depends on people being honest, but the current rules also depend on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) Scottish Covid cases hit record levels over Christmas - BBC News With respect to hospital admissions and attendance at A & E, it looks like it's make or break time. Fingers crossed. The number of track and traced individuals must be increasing significantly too. That's most likely going to impact negatively upon places of employment. I think the Scottish government's hand will be forced with respect to reducing the isolation period. Quote The daily case numbers recorded over the 25, 26 and 27 December were the highest totals seen throughout the entire pandemic. Christmas Day saw 8,252 cases. Boxing Day registered 11,030 confirmed cases and Monday's daily total was 10,562. The Scottish government warned that due to the lag in reporting, the actual number of Covid cases was likely to be higher. Edited December 27, 2021 by FTOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 7 minutes ago, FTOF said: Scottish Covid cases hit record levels over Christmas - BBC News With respect to hospital admissions and attendance at A & E, it looks like it's make or break time. Fingers crossed. The number of track and traced individuals must be increasing significantly too. That's most likely going to impact negatively upon places of employment. I think the Scottish government's hand will be forced with respect to reducing the isolation period. Where did they get these figures as no figures are being released until 29th Dec? From the gov.scot website............ Updated at 2pm to provide the latest data on COVID-19 in Scotland. There will be no updates published on 25-28 December and 1-4 January. On Wednesday 29 December and Wednesday 5 January, we will provide the latest daily data for that day and the previous 4 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Where did they get these figures as no figures are being released until 29th Dec? From the gov.scot website............ Updated at 2pm to provide the latest data on COVID-19 in Scotland. There will be no updates published on 25-28 December and 1-4 January. On Wednesday 29 December and Wednesday 5 January, we will provide the latest daily data for that day and the previous 4 days.Same place as we get the figures over a weekend. It tells you in the story. [emoji6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said: Same place as we get the figures over a weekend. It tells you in the story. Does it? So the gov.scot site is telling fibs? Edited December 27, 2021 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Does it? So the gov.scot site is telling fibs? Yes, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, faraway saint said: Does it? So the gov.scot site is telling fibs? Never happy, are you? You would have been moaning if they had not published these figures today!🤥 Edited December 27, 2021 by smcc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, smcc said: Never happy, are you? You would have been moaning if they had not published these figures today!🤥 Away and gies piece, I'm legitimately asking as I was aware there would be no figures released until 29th, which is stated quite clearly on the Scottish Gov website. What's your problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 You are the one with a problem. You obviously have a big problem accepting that people can change their mind when circumstances change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 9 minutes ago, smcc said: You are the one with a problem. You obviously have a big problem accepting that people can change their mind when circumstances change. No idea WTF you're on about. Think you should lay of the sherry and try playing the post rather than the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookie Monster Posted December 27, 2021 Report Share Posted December 27, 2021 Away and gies piece, I'm legitimately asking as I was aware there would be no figures released until 29th, which is stated quite clearly on the Scottish Gov website. What's your problem? See that's what you thought you read instead of reading what was actually wrote.Yes it said that they wouldn't publish the figures. But that was regarding where it was written. So no they never published them on the website, as they didn't have every figure due to the holidays. But released the figures they did have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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