bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Dickson said: These charts and graphs are far more relevant to those of us who live in Scotland. As anyone can see Scotland is not a hot spot for the Coronavirus. We should not be in lock down right now and we are only in lock down because the Scottish Government has over reacted to figures 400 miles away in London. I think it's very clear that a lot of countries haven't acted fast enough and have caused the infected and deaths to get much higher than if lock-down came in earlier. Are you actually suggesting we should hold off until more people die before trying to limit the impact? From a person that claims to care greatly about charity and community, let's roll the coronavirus dice. Much more likely as we see with SMFC matters, this opinion is down to personal feelings towards SNP. Edited March 31, 2020 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Hiram Abiff said: Do you have any recommendations? I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Seriously? They were going to utilise care homes as overflow for virus patients? There's not a chance in hell that strategy would ever have worked.It’s a moot point now that we know that the pandemic has been grossly over exaggerated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Hiram Abiff said: Do you have any recommendations? Yeah look up Aubrey Beardsley's etchings... Like I said there was a good program about him & his work presented by Mark Gattiss on BBC4 last night.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, bazil85 said: I think it's very clear that a lot of countries haven't acted fast enough and have caused the infected and deaths to get much higher than if lock-down came in earlier. Are you actually suggesting we should hold off until more people die before trying to limit the impact? From a person that claims to care greatly about charity and community, let's roll the coronavirus dice. Much more likely as we see with SMFC matters, this opinion is down to personal feelings towards SNP. Have you heard of a country called Sweden, for starters? Stop playing the man, you only commented in here because of WHO made the post. Overall this thread has been quite successful, partly down to you staying away, go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Virus spreads to hospitals and care homes in Germany Germany’s coronavirus death rate is rising and will continue to do so, the government’s health adviser has warned. Lothar Wieler, who runs the Robert Koch institute, says the rate is still relatively low (0.8%) because of widespread early testing and the fact that the majority of the early cases involved younger, healthy people with mild symptoms. But he adds that older people are now testing positive and the virus is spreading to hospitals and care homes, which makes him think the death rate will rise further. When asked about how Germany records Covid-19 deaths, Professor Wieler says there’s no evidence to suggest any are being missed. Germany’s death toll is now 600, and the average age of victims was 80, the respected Robert Koch Institute has just announced (other estimates put the toll at 650). Just 31 out of the 600 were aged under 60, Süddeutsche Zeitung reports. Bavaria and North Rhine-Westphalia are the worst-hit regions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Have you heard of a country called Sweden, for starters? Stop playing the man, you only commented in here because of WHO made the post. Overall this thread has been quite successful, partly down to you staying away, go figure. Em... do I even need to point out how hypocritical this is? I think you'll find a lot of people agree with me. Back to a point I made a while back, some people on here will jump on what I say regardless of content. Sorry sunshine, you will never stop me posting where I want to. As for what's happening in Sweden, does that mean it's identical to Scotland? Highlighting different scenarios is not effective in challenging my point I'm afraid. Maybe you should do some more research into why it's thought it's impacted differently in Sweden and recent development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 31, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 ^^^^^^^^^ I try to limit my responses to the clown above to under three as it'll end up in a never ending set of posts all saying the same thing, he's great and everybody else is wrong. Walloper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Seriously? They were going to utilise care homes as overflow for virus patients? There's not a chance in hell that strategy would ever have worked.Not for virus patients as far as I know. More about moving older patients without virus into social care setting to free up beds in hospitals. The move to open up SEC will, I assume, now be used instead of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, faraway saint said: ^^^^^^^^^ I try to limit my responses to the clown above to under three as it'll end up in a never ending set of posts all saying the same thing, he's great and everybody else is wrong. Walloper. Why don't we just let each other comment away on our respective sides and leave your clear bad feelings towards me at the door? It's easy enough to take each topic in isolation without you crying about other disagreements. No need to get into further discussion and I appreciate the irony (sometimes you do just need to call people out on errors) but you are in fact wrong on the way I debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Are all these individuals actually ill due to the virus, or are some of these individuals self-isolating due to either suffering from unconfirmed virus symptoms or being in contact with a family member suffering from unconfirmed virus symptoms? We don't know because no one thought about to get testing kits in advance of this or during it so there's a blanket 7 day self isolation once symptoms are noticed. By this point, if they do have CV, there's been days of "shedding" it.The 7 day period is also insufficient as many are showing symptoms lasting up to 14 days.WHO guidelines are 14 days quarentine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 I think it's very clear that a lot of countries haven't acted fast enough and have caused the infected and deaths to get much higher than if lock-down came in earlier. Can you provide some evidence to back up this claim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dickson said: Everyone involved in the lock down - Johnson, Sturgeons, all the medical advisors - have stated that the purpose of the lock down is to slow the spread so hospitals aren't overwhelmed. It won't kill the virus or stop us all from getting it eventually. Scotlands hospitals haven't been overwhelmed by Covid-19 patients. There has been a slow rate of spread - even without the lockdown - precisely because we aren't all huddled together like people are in London, New York, Madrid or Wuhan. Take the Highlands as an example. Fewer than 60 cases in a 9,900 sq mile land mass. Locking them down is utterly crazy! How many deaths do you think will happen because we've stopped screening for breast and bowel cancer? I don't want people to die - obviously - but we haven't saved lives by going into lock down too early! Instead the Scottish Government has f**ked up lives, caused job losses, and taken away all our freedom and we're still going to be exposed to a second, third and fourth wave if a vaccine isn't available very soon. You always think you know better and evidence almost always shows us that is wrong. I see no reason to think you know better than the health advisers to Scotland. Just now, Hiram Abiff said: Can you provide some evidence to back up this claim? Which countries in particular? Italy, China and Spain, lock-downs are now showing signs of "flattening the curve" as they say. Had they implemented them even earlier, it would very likely of had the same impact sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Italy, China and Spain, lock-downs are now showing signs of "flattening the curve" as they say. Had they implemented them even earlier, it would very likely of had the same impact sooner. How would they have known sooner the impact it was going to have on their countries? The European health monitor on mortality states that there has been no excess mortality in Europe so far this year and that deaths are as expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 18 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: 1 hour ago, FTOF said: Seriously? They were going to utilise care homes as overflow for virus patients? There's not a chance in hell that strategy would ever have worked. Not for virus patients as far as I know. More about moving older patients without virus into social care setting to free up beds in hospitals. The move to open up SEC will, I assume, now be used instead of this. Doubt that would have worked either due to the factors I mentioned earlier. Most care homes, other than some in rural settings, have high rates of occupancy. A lot of those are limited due to parts older buildings being used, not being able to be updated. Anyway, would appear to be a moot point now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DougJamie said: The fact we have 25% off sick from the NHS says it all Summer should be warm and dry this year, with a constant 70- 74 degrees Nicola Sturgeon just announced that NHS absence rate is 6%, due to both illness and self-isolation. Quote The first minister tells the briefing just over 6% of NHS staff are off work with symptoms or self-isolating. Testing of key workers has begun and as that expands more staff will be able to get back to work as quickly as possible, she adds. Ms Sturgeon says a target was set to reduce delayed discharges from hospitals by at least 400 or 35% from the baseline of 4 March and that has been achieved. Efforts are ongoing to improve on these figures, she says. Edited March 31, 2020 by FTOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Hiram Abiff said: How would they have known sooner the impact it was going to have on their countries? The European health monitor on mortality states that there has been no excess mortality in Europe so far this year and that deaths are as expected. Plenty of stories going around regarding health experts warnings of what could happen for China. As for the others, China should have been an example. I think many health experts would contest that means we shouldn't be doing what we are doing very strongly. Hence why practically the whole world is going into lock-down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Dickson said: Or is the flattening of the curve down to "herd immunity"? No, we don't have heard immunity yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 As as 26 March there has been no excess mortality in the UK this yearhttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/876005/Weekly_all_cause_mortality_surveillance_week_13_2020_report.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said: As as 26 March there has been no excess mortality in the UK this year https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/876005/Weekly_all_cause_mortality_surveillance_week_13_2020_report.pdf This is not a strong source to go on for a country. Given the population is 65 million such narrow numbers do not take into consideration multiple variables. The statistics on people literally dying related to coronavirus is obviously much more useful. This would however be very relevant if we did nothing and in a few months 100s of thousands were dying after contracting . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 Doubt that would have worked either due to the factors I mentioned earlier. Most care homes, other than some in rural settings, have high rates of occupancy. A lot of those are limited due to parts older buildings being used, not being able to be updated. Anyway, would appear to be a moot point now.I have a friend who is a nurse managing a care home. Last week she was instructed to put all residents into one 'wing' of the home and keep the other one ffee for hospital discharges.Nicola Sturgeon just explaining in her daily q and a that Scotland has 3000 extra capacity lined up, SEC is about 1000 of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 This is not a strong source to go on for a country. Given the population is 65 million such narrow numbers do not take into consideration multiple variables. The statistics on people literally dying related to coronavirus is obviously much more useful. This would however be very relevant if we did nothing and in a few months 100s of thousands were dying after contracting . I would argue, with some degree of certainty, that a government paper showing excess mortality in the UK is a good source of the excess mortality in the UK.Can you provide some statistics which show the numbers ‘literally dying related to coronavirus’?The source I’ve given shows there is no excess mortality in the UK. Coronavirus cannot be the cause of any excess mortality if there is no excess mortality.100% of nothing is still nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 So the lockdown is working [emoji106]It shows the lockdown was not needed [emoji106] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said: I would argue, with some degree of certainty, that a government paper showing excess mortality in the UK is a good source of the excess mortality in the UK. Not when we're talking about a virus that has to date killed 1,408 people. Almost half a million people died in England alone last year. Obviously the figures won't be making a dent in that right now, that's because of the number of other things people can die from. It's about future state. Look at how the death rate has risen even with the steps taken. Do you genuinely not think it would become very significant if we did nothing? Can you provide some statistics which show the numbers ‘literally dying related to coronavirus’? These are released on a regular basis, why would you need me to provide them? The source I’ve given shows there is no excess mortality in the UK. Coronavirus cannot be the cause of any excess mortality if there is no excess mortality. At this stage, it's genuinely staggering you don't get this. 100% of nothing is still nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted March 31, 2020 Report Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dickson said: Do you think it would be OK to point out that China only locked down the province of Hubei? Nah. Shhh! I'll let Bazil carry on looking stupid Only? lol. And if they didn't lock it down? Oh dear, you've defeated your own point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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