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faraway saint

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Guest TPAFKATS
Comparing people to mass-murdering dictators because they don't agree with government policy, is uncalled for. Peter Hitchens wrote a very cogent article in which he said that the economy might take years, even decades, to recover. As a consequence, he suggested the shortfall in tax revenue may lead to a severely underfunded NHS which may lead to thousands of deaths. Hiram Abiff may yet turn out to be correct, and the government may have overreacted. I'm too modest to contradict government policy, but I can certainly see why people might be sceptical.
They under reacted, under prepared and are still going with a herd immunity approach, just not talking openly about it.
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And you’ll always get differing opinion in scenarios like this. The winning expert opinion near globally is to do what we are doing. [emoji106]


At the time, the winning expert opinion near globally of the cause of the plague was the conjunction of 3 planets in 1345 that caused a great pestilence in the air. [emoji106]
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4 hours ago, Hiram Abiff said:

 You said they were “literally dying related to coronavirus” Just because they tested positive to coronavirus does not mean it was related to the death 

People who are dying can contract coronavirus as well as people who aren’t!

 Seems you’re being pretty pedantic on this point to me.

 We can advise particularly vulnerable people to isolate if they wish. 

This evidently hasn’t worked given we’ve been doing that for a fairly long time and people continue to die at a seemingly increased rates.

Destroying the economy despite their being no excess mortality will result in an actual increase in excess mortality.

We know people are dying because of this virus, there are thousands of cases globally. That’s enough reason for me to be taking all the action we can to stop it. You can disagree but I prioritise multiple human lives way higher than the economy. Would some people have died anyway? Yes I’m sure but that will be far from 100% I can’t believe anyone will seriously disagree with that.

If you’ve been reading this thread you’ll see that the death toll is exactly what I’ve been predicting for a week now. We’ve been at 65% of where Italy were 2 weeks ago for over a week now.

I predict we may hit 600 deaths by the weekend.

But as mentioned earlier, we do not know if this has increased the excess mortality.

Patrick Vallance advised yesterday that you can’t take much notice of single day mortality. I’m guessing you missed that?

The death toll announced yesterday was 30% lower than it was 2 days ago.

Is a decreasing death toll of 30% every 2 days within your tolerance of fighting this?

You seem to make a point that you can’t look at days in isolation, then use two days figures as a point. I’ll just summarise. The rate this virus has spread when we had measures in place that you were in favour of being all that’s required, is NOT in my tolerance & it’s not in the tolerance of our government (and many others) based on advice of people that know way more than you or I.

You haven’t evidenced at all. You haven’t provided any evidence of an increase in excess mortality nor evidence that there would be if left untreated.

I have pointed out several times that the mortality rate at this point isn’t the whole picture. There is overwhelming evidence GLOBALLY that mortality rates increase when we don’t have proper measures in place. If you don’t see that/ agree, fine.

I don’t think anything of your irrelevant analogy.

It would be far from irrelevant if the cases continued to rise under a world where we don’t implement the measures you think are excessive. Which again is completely evidenced over last few months.

My point exactly  

So maybe we listen to the experts, not a few guys on a football fan site?

Can you provide evidence of this?  

The rate of contamination (despite major attempts to contain) globally from something only really identified within the last 4-5 months

This makes no sense   

Of course, it does, the coronavirus has a higher related mortality rate than the flu (currently), therefore if we had a like for like infected figures as we did in those two quoted years, the deaths would be higher. That’s backed up with the statistics we have available.

Have you some sort of research that proves we’re closer to Spain or Italy? The “experts” have already been proved themselves wrong on multiple occasions already.

You were the one that specifically mentioned an outlying country, why would you turn the evidence back on me? Little is known about the situation in Sweden right now (although it does seem to be getting worse), it’s hypothesised, it’s down to much larger numbers of one resident housing which would differ from UK. The evidence also points to UK tracking other countries harder hit, more closely than Sweden.

First of all the government said we could overcome this with herd immunity and no lockdown was required. 

Then they predicted 500,000 deaths. 

Then they admitted most of these people would have died anyway. 

Then they reckoned 20,000 would die if we imposed a lockdown. 

Now they reckon it’ll be 6,000. 

But they still don’t know how many of them would have died anyway. 

They’re making it up as they go along. 

Now remember, the excess mortality in a bad flu season is 50,000. That’s over and above the 000s who die of flu anyway. That’s over and above the 600,000 who die in the UK every year.

You can have different tolerances from human life than me or others, it’s fine. I will not change my mind from agreeing with experts to some guy on BAWA. I don’t think there’s any doubt we have saved lives in the approach we’ve taken and that will continue.

If the death rate related to coronavirus continued for the next nine months to end of year, it would be certain the death toll would be “excessive” even by your standards. Will some of those deaths have been unavoidable? Absolutely (same as the flu years), but a lot of them would have been avoidable & that’s enough for me. I also favour prolonging human life where possible and not lessoning the standard, the coronavirus has obviously speeded up the downfall of some vulnerable people.

We won’t agree on this, you won’t change my mind from the health experts globally. Just FYI if you want to continue this debate.

 

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Guest TPAFKATS
Funny how your intials are H ...A . Should be A..H . Disrespecting human life was his speciality too... you seem fixated on dismissing a virus that is killing thousands.  
Naw, it's just the moral vacuum of the contrarian, sociopath. Far right libertarians are all the same.
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Guest TPAFKATS



 
 
  • An extensive survey in Iceland found that 50% of all test-positive persons showed „no symptoms“ at all, while the other 50% mostly showed „very moderate cold-like symptoms“. According to the Icelandic data, the mortality rate of Covid19 is in the per mille range, i.e. in the flu range or below. Of the two test-positive deaths, one was „a tourist with unusual symptoms“. (More Icelandic data)
 


Yes 50% can have it and not know they've got it due to showing no symptoms. I posted this the other day.

Shows why social distancing needs to happen in UK.
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1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

 

 

  • An extensive survey in Iceland found that 50% of all test-positive persons showed „no symptoms“ at all, while the other 50% mostly showed „very moderate cold-like symptoms“. According to the Icelandic data, the mortality rate of Covid19 is in the per mille range, i.e. in the flu range or below. Of the two test-positive deaths, one was „a tourist with unusual symptoms“. (More Icelandic data)

 

If 50% had no symptoms and the other 50% had mild symptoms how did people die from it? Am I missing something?

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50 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

 


Baz, unless you use the quote function properly I’m not even going to read let alone reply.

 

I find it easier to follow doing it that way, personal choice, like it's your choice if you don't want to read it. Most important part is probably at the end, you won't change my mind away from agreeing with the government advising experts. 

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From the guy that's been arguing that human life is  largely expendable if we can protect the economy... default_whistling.gif

 On the contrary, your far right fascist regime wrecking economy is what will expend the most lives.

 

I note that the fascist Boris fan who wants to see the death toll rise to score points on a football forum liked your post

 

 Make some sexist misogynistic comments or post a homophobic joke. He’ll give you a like for that too. [emoji6]

 

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8 hours ago, Hendo said:

Is that for real? I thought we were in lockdown.

I can't find any evidence, still looking............................don't believe all you read on a football forum. :wink:

New York flights, checks by all airlines on passengers, it's not as if they are just letting people on with no checks.

You'd need to be a lunatic to believe that. 

Edited by faraway saint
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Isn't it great that lots of people have been responding to the requests for volunteers?

After the embarrassment of the panic buying there seems to be a brilliant response from people, either officially or unofficially, to help other people.

Too many to mention but every person who has done something, and plenty just do it privately, should be very proud of themselves. 

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