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Going back a few posts - Winston Churchill was no friend of the working class and in 1919 was part of the War Cabinet that used the Army to defeat Glasgow strikers arguing for a reduction in the working week.

Edited by Bud the Baker

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3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Well, here we are, another Saturday which has become the worst day of the week.

It's just started raining so can't even go spend any time in the garden.

TV is shit, no football, no sport, killing me.

 

First world problems. 🤣

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34 minutes ago, Dickson said:

Probably quite rightly to be fair. It was just over a year after the Bolshevik revolution in Russia and the trade unions were stoking up a lot of revolutionary fervour in the City. 

As ever Stu I suspect we'll be on different sides of the barricades if it comes to it.

******************

My concerns are how many of those people who clapped for the NHS the other night will be happy to see their taxes rise. 

As an aside I saw Sir Richard Branson had his begging bowl out for his airline yesterday - I realize he has employees to be concerned about too but I suspect that like many successful businessmen he'll get more government assistance than 100 gig economy workers.

Returning to history I note that apart from a few high-profile casualties bankers walked away from the 2008 crash with their bonuses intact - I'd hope that when the bills eventually have to be paid the burden won't fall solely on the 99% again.

PS - Nice to see you on your best behavior...:rolleyes:

Edited by Bud the Baker

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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

As ever Stu I suspect we'll be on different sides of the barricades if it comes to it.

******************

My concerns are how many of those people who clapped for the NHS the other night will be happy to see their taxes rise. 

As an aside I saw Sir Richard Branson had his begging bowl out for his airline yesterday - I realize he has employees to be concerned about too but I suspect that like many successful businessmen he'll get more government assistance than 100 gig economy workers.

Returning to history I note that apart from a few high-profile casualties bankers walked away from the 2008 crash with their bonuses intact - I'd hope that when the bills eventually have to be paid the burden won't fall solely on the 99% again.

PS - Nice to see you on your best behavior...:rolleyes:

It depends on who you are classing as a banker. Many, many bankers lost their jobs overnight. It was carnage in the City in that regard.

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4 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It depends on who you are classing as a banker. Many, many bankers lost their jobs overnight. It was carnage in the City in that regard.

Fair enough I should've been more careful about my post - although I would argue that the culture that brought about the crash didn't change.

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3 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Fair enough I should've been more careful about my post - although I would argue that the culture that brought about the crash didn't change.

I'm not too sure about that either TBH. Banks don't take anywhere near the lending risks that they used to. There's still a lot of shitty behaviour but I think the industry has changed.

Are there specific incidents you are thinking about?

Edited by oaksoft

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6 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I'm not too sure about that either TBH. Banks don't take anywhere near the lending risks that they used to. There's still a lot of shitty behaviour but I think the industry has changed.

Are there specific incidents you are thinking about?

It's mainly the shitty behavior (your words)/culture that I'm thinking about although the Libor Scandal wasn't exposed until after 2008 and I'm sure that Investment Bankers haven't become Saints (sic) overnight so whatever shady practices are going on today await exposure.

In the UK we were just about to exit 10 years of austerity according to our current Chancellor (Rushi Sunak who even you agreed was a Tax Evader :P) at the Budget earlier this month  - I maintain my opinion expressed elsewhere that this burden was not shared fairly.

In general though I'm happy to stick with my prejudices and say that any Covid-19 bailout which leaves the existing structure pretty much in place and relies on a better behavior from business moguls won't serve the 99% well. 

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14 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

It's mainly the shitty behavior (your words)/culture that I'm thinking about although the Libor Scandal wasn't exposed until after 2008 and I'm sure that Investment Bankers haven't become Saints (sic) overnight so whatever shady practices are going on today await exposure.

In the UK we were just about to exit 10 years of austerity according to our current Chancellor (Rushi Sunak who even you agreed was a Tax Evader :P) at the Budget earlier this month  - I maintain my opinion expressed elsewhere that this burden was not shared fairly.

In general though I'm happy to stick with my prejudices and say that any Covid-19 bailout which leaves the existing structure pretty much in place and relies on a better behavior from business moguls won't serve the 99% well. 

I have never called Rishi Sunak a tax evader. I think you're mixing me up with someone else.

The current series of covid-19 bailouts are unprecendented in our history with only a handful of people slipping through the net. That is a magnificent effort IMO and it's deeply depressing that when the government is trying to prevent people starving in the street and the total collapse of our entire economy that there are some people bleating on about "Aye but whit aboot the rich".

I'm not disagreeing that structural change is required but FFS this is hardly the time for it.

 

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13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I have never called Rishi Sunak a tax evader. I think you're mixing me up with someone else.

Big Boris Thread - Top of Page 88 (Feb 15th)

  On 2/15/2020 at 10:53 AM, Bud the Baker said:

Out with the old Chancellor with a shady past in HedgeFunding - in with the new.....

Two questions

  1.  If the company had to pay an £8M fine then surely it's evasion not avoidance?
  2.  Surely it's a party matter and should be answered by a party spokesman not a treasury source?

 

oaksoft

  •  
 

It's tax evasion for me.

Use of a legitimate tax avoidance scheme for illegitimate purposes is evasion.

*******************

As to the timing - I'd say this is exactly the time for it!

Edited by Bud the Baker

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10 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Big Boris Thread - Top of Page 88 (Feb 15th)

Out with the old Chancellor with a shady past in HedgeFunding - in with the new.....

Two questions

  1.  If the company had to pay an £8M fine then surely it's evasion not avoidance?
  2.  Surely it's a party matter and should be answered by a party spokesman not a treasury source?

 

oaksoft

  •  
 

It's tax evasion for me.

Use of a legitimate tax avoidance scheme for illegitimate purposes is evasion.

*******************

As to the timing - I'd say this is exactly the time for it!

Fair enough. I had forgotten about that. Yes I'd agree it was tax evasion.

As for the timing? Go and organise it if you feel that strongly. Nobody else is going to do it. Honestly I don't even know where you would start though.

Edited by oaksoft

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The problem with taking pleasure in seeing big business leaders like Branson fail is that you can't shut him down without having mass redundancies amongst ordinary people.

Anyone taking pleasure in Virgin shutting down is clearly not thinking of anyone but themselves. They certainly aren't thinking about the fate of his 8500 employees. It's another irony of the f**ked up thought processes of the hard left wing. Imagine being so obsessed with ending one man's business that you see 8500 families potentially destroyed as acceptable collateral.

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4 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:
4 hours ago, Dickson said:

Probably quite rightly to be fair. It was just over a year after the Bolshevik revolution in Russia and the trade unions were stoking up a lot of revolutionary fervour in the City. 

As ever Stu I suspect we'll be on different sides of the barricades if it comes to it.

******************

My concerns are how many of those people who clapped for the NHS the other night will be happy to see their taxes rise. 

As an aside I saw Sir Richard Branson had his begging bowl out for his airline yesterday - I realize he has employees to be concerned about too but I suspect that like many successful businessmen he'll get more government assistance than 100 gig economy workers.

Returning to history I note that apart from a few high-profile casualties bankers walked away from the 2008 crash with their bonuses intact - I'd hope that when the bills eventually have to be paid the burden won't fall solely on the 99% again.

PS - Nice to see you on your best behavior...

 

Going back a few posts - Winston Churchill was no friend of the working class and in 1919 was part of the War Cabinet that used the Army to defeat Glasgow strikers arguing for a reduction in the working week.

Edited 5 hours ago by Bud the Baker

 

Interesting viewpoints, I have always been a fan of Churchill.............man of his time and all that, and not been a fan of BJ at all,................ simply that anyone was better than Corbyn.

Now even with passage of time and skeletons being exposed etc, I am still a fan of Churchill. he simply was the right person at the right time and as for BJ......well he is growing on me, all that he has done re Brexit ..............is what he said he would and re coronavirus; he has listened to 'experts' and acted in accordance with advice, he has not appeared arrogant, nor superior and even humble at times (maybe).

Now when it's time to pay the piper I am sure we will all have to pay the price and we should be damn glad to do so. With regards to Sir Richard Branson and Virgin verse 100 gig workers, Virgin empoy around 8500 staff ............. who would you save?

Just offering an opinion here by the way.

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44 minutes ago, jaybee said:

 

Now even with passage of time and skeletons being exposed etc, I am still a fan of Churchill. he simply was the right person at the right time and as for BJ......well he is growing on me, all that he has done re Brexit ..............is what he said he would and re coronavirus; he has listened to 'experts' and acted in accordance with advice, he has not appeared arrogant, nor superior and even humble at times (maybe).

Now when it's time to pay the piper I am sure we will all have to pay the price and we should be damn glad to do so. With regards to Sir Richard Branson and Virgin verse 100 gig workers, Virgin empoy around 8500 staff ............. who would you save?

Just offering an opinion here by the way.

The best thing Churchill ever did was to face down Chamberlain & Lord Halifax when they were considering making a deal with Hitler at the time of the Dunkirk evacuation but mostly he was just an overprivileged aristo interested mainly in himself.

**************

RB is part of the swamp, a tax exile who has already shaken the taxpayer down for billions via Virgin Rail.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/truth-richard-branson-virgin-rail-profits

I did acknowledge that Virgin Atlantic staff had to be taken into consideration but as RB has already asked them to take 8 weeks I know where my sympathies lie & don't forget it's barely a year since RB was involved in the group which took over rival airline Flybe (whatever happened to them?) to try and incorporate that airline into his own only to ask for a government bailout when it failed - just another example what Ted Heath called "the unacceptable face of capitalism".

Edited by Bud the Baker

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Guest TPAFKATS
The problem with taking pleasure in seeing big business leaders like Branson fail is that you can't shut him down without having mass redundancies amongst ordinary people.
Anyone taking pleasure in Virgin shutting down is clearly not thinking of anyone but themselves. They certainly aren't thinking about the fate of his 8500 employees. It's another irony of the f**ked up thought processes of the hard left wing. Imagine being so obsessed with ending one man's business that you see 8500 families potentially destroyed as acceptable collateral.
If virgin shuts down, it'll be entirely down to Branson. He's worth over 4bn, he could easily soak up the short term losses to look after the staff who make him his profits the rest of the time.

He wouldn't actually notice any difference in his lifestyle, only his balance sheet.

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Guest TPAFKATS
The best thing Churchill ever did was to face down Chamberlain & Lord Halifax when they were considering making a deal with Hitler at the time of the Dunkirk evacuation but mostly he was just an overprivileged aristo interested mainly in himself.
**************
RB is part of the swamp, a tax exile who has already shaken the taxpayer down for billions via Virgin Rail.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jun/10/truth-richard-branson-virgin-rail-profits
I did acknowledge that Virgin Atlantic staff had to be taken into consideration but as RB has already asked them to take 8 weeks I know where my sympathies lie & don't forget it's barely a year since RB was involved in the group which took over rival airline Flybe (whatever happened to them?) to try and incorporate that airline into his own only to ask for a government bailout when it failed - just another example what Ted Heath called "the unacceptable face of capitalism".
His only interest in flybe was their London landing slots.

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Guest TPAFKATS
I have never called Rishi Sunak a tax evader. I think you're mixing me up with someone else.
The current series of covid-19 bailouts are unprecendented in our history with only a handful of people slipping through the net. That is a magnificent effort IMO and it's deeply depressing that when the government is trying to prevent people starving in the street and the total collapse of our entire economy that there are some people bleating on about "Aye but whit aboot the rich".
I'm not disagreeing that structural change is required but FFS this is hardly the time for it.
 
Yes these bailouts are unprecedented in UK. I would note however that in a number of EU countries its an existing standard benefit to pay their citizens 80% of pay when they lose their job.

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12 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:
3 hours ago, oaksoft said:
I have never called Rishi Sunak a tax evader. I think you're mixing me up with someone else.
The current series of covid-19 bailouts are unprecendented in our history with only a handful of people slipping through the net. That is a magnificent effort IMO and it's deeply depressing that when the government is trying to prevent people starving in the street and the total collapse of our entire economy that there are some people bleating on about "Aye but whit aboot the rich".
I'm not disagreeing that structural change is required but FFS this is hardly the time for it.
 

Yes these bailouts are unprecedented in UK. I would note however that in a number of EU countries its an existing standard benefit to pay their citizens 80% of pay when they lose their job.

Can you provide some evidence? 

Edited by faraway saint

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39 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:
4 hours ago, oaksoft said:
I have never called Rishi Sunak a tax evader. I think you're mixing me up with someone else.
The current series of covid-19 bailouts are unprecendented in our history with only a handful of people slipping through the net. That is a magnificent effort IMO and it's deeply depressing that when the government is trying to prevent people starving in the street and the total collapse of our entire economy that there are some people bleating on about "Aye but whit aboot the rich".
I'm not disagreeing that structural change is required but FFS this is hardly the time for it.
 

Yes these bailouts are unprecedented in UK. I would note however that in a number of EU countries its an existing standard benefit to pay their citizens 80% of pay when they lose their job.

I know that places like Norway do this but it's time limited. Not sure how I feel about it. In principle it sounds great but I'd want to see how it was paid for.

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28 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I know that places like Norway do this but it's time limited. Not sure how I feel about it. In principle it sounds great but I'd want to see how it was paid for.

Norway have been a hell of a lot smarter with their oil revenues.

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Guest TPAFKATS
I know that places like Norway do this but it's time limited. Not sure how I feel about it. In principle it sounds great but I'd want to see how it was paid for.
It's paid for through a higher taxation system and different choices on spending.
People in UK seem to baulk at this but countries like Norway are always at top of annual surveys of happiness etc and there's no great rush to leave these countries.

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