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Plans for next season


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1 hour ago, lenziebud said:

I personally agree that we should leave the league as is and that there is no long term benefit for reconstruction. 

I suspect Fitzpatrick is for it as he thinks it will allow us as a club more of a chance to stay in the top league. Complete self interest although it will be denied.

I do though think we should reconstruct for 1 season to fix the whole relegation/promotion issues that are currently in play as I think its totally unacceptable for Hearts, Thistle etc to be facing relegation in this manner.

My issue with only doing it for one season is it’s complete self interest as well & to the determinant of teams like St Mirren. It would mean next season a minimum of three & probably four relegation/ play off spots. Couple that with a league that’ll have Hearts & Dundee United in it who will both have very decent budgets. 
 

it puts clubs like ours in serious risk of falling out the league. I am fully in favour of bigger leagues & think 14 is the best we’ll get. But if it is the case, my view is it must be permanent with a fair voting structure (remove the 11-1 percentages)

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43 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

So why would it be fair to change the rules 80% of the way through the season to allow for temporary reconstruction but unfair to do so for relegation?

Reconstruction is a good idea, but don't the teams in the championship deserve a fair crack at it in a fresh season? Is that not equally as unfair to teams like Dunfermline and Ayr who had a decent shout of a playoff  a few weeks ago to lose out to Caley Thistle going up on a technicality when they only would have had the same playoff shout? Retroactively bolting it on when the league is done (and lets be clear, the league is done) and calling it a fair and just solution is absolutely hypocritical when whining that the relegation situation is not fair to Hearts.

The reality is, there's no completely 100% fair compromise. Even extending the season and ending it indefinitely isn't fair. Some squads will be more weakened by contracts ending than others. 

 

Temporary reconstruction should be punted and be the absolute last option on the table. It suits no one except Hearts who want the best of both worlds. A cynical attempt to feign benevolence of 'oh what about these poor teams in the championship?' but they'll happily punt them out in a season or two once they know that they are safe from going down and then they can get an extra OF home game back.  

Nah, load of shite.

So how would you have felt about it in the season Jack Ross saved us.

Its wrong and Hearts, Thistle etc have every right to fight it. In fact I doubt both clubs would have went down if they had been allowed to play out the season.

There is a fair solution and that is to reconstruct for a season. 

I think it will happen anyway

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Just now, bazil85 said:

My issue with only doing it for one season is it’s complete self interest as well & to the determinant of teams like St Mirren. It would mean next season a minimum of three & probably four relegation/ play off spots. Couple that with a league that’ll have Hearts & Dundee United in it who will both have very decent budgets. 
 

it puts clubs like ours in serious risk of falling out the league. I am fully in favour of bigger leagues & think 14 is the best we’ll get. But if it is the case, my view is it must be permanent with a fair voting structure (remove the 11-1 percentages)

No it isn't its because its inherently wrong that Hearts and Thistle, Stranraer are relegated in this manner and all the clubs are legitimate in their anger at it.

We would have been the same. I can't stand the hypocrisy of fans and boards throughout the game.

Its such a one of event that we can surely put up with a season of reconstruction to get back on the right path

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So how would you have felt about it in the season Jack Ross saved us.
Its wrong and Hearts, Thistle etc have every right to fight it. In fact I doubt both clubs would have went down if they had been allowed to play out the season.
There is a fair solution and that is to reconstruct for a season. 
I think it will happen anyway


It's not fair to relegate a club, but it's ok to promote some over others. Take ICT and Dundee for example, 4 points difference and 1/4 of the season to go.
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Guest TPAFKATS
So how would you have felt about it in the season Jack Ross saved us.
Its wrong and Hearts, Thistle etc have every right to fight it. In fact I doubt both clubs would have went down if they had been allowed to play out the season.
There is a fair solution and that is to reconstruct for a season. 
I think it will happen anyway
Agree, although thistle seemed to be trying their hardest to blow every chance they got to save themselves.
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3 hours ago, munoz said:
4 hours ago, lenziebud said:

I think Ann Budge is a tremendous source of good in Scottish football. Outstanding individual who many could learn from.

I think she is 100% correct to battle for her team. Its not right that any club should be relegated in these circumstances. Thistle situation is even worse as they have a game in hand.

I'd be gutted if SMFC had been relegated on this basis and very angry as would most of this forum !

I think it is only fair that if we cannot get agreement on long term reconstruction that we reconstruct the leagues for 1 or 2  seasons to avoid any club being relegated and also sort it for clubs like Falkirk etc. 

We are going through a situation which is a nightmare for all and a totally uncontrollable event. Surely we can find a solution that helps everyone.

The greed around money and self interest of all is appalling and stinks the core. The abject hypocrisy across all boards and fans is there for all to see, you don't have to look very hard, so hopefully we either get a fair and just short term solution or we take the chance to make long term decisions for the good of the game.

Good luck in getting any long term change that is for the good of the game if any of this lot have to compromise. 

No wonder we haven't qualified for a major national football tournament for decades.

 

 

Agree with all of that bar the 1 or 2 year reconstruction- if we are to change the league format,  for me it has to be longer term. We have a great chance of getting what the majority of supporters in this country want, and that is a larger top division. 

The question you really need to ask yourself is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would anyone (apart from saints fans) be bovered if it was us in Heats position, I am fairly sure of the answer which is .....would thjey feck.

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29 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

So how would you have felt about it in the season Jack Ross saved us.

Its wrong and Hearts, Thistle etc have every right to fight it. In fact I doubt both clubs would have went down if they had been allowed to play out the season.

There is a fair solution and that is to reconstruct for a season. 

I think it will happen anyway

It doesn't matter how I'd have felt. Had a global pandemic prevented the season being played to completion, we'd have had to STFU and get on with it. We can look back on 2016/17 fondly now but that's knowing the outcome of the season with 100% hindsight.

I can absolutely guarantee you, this conversation of temporary reconstruction would not be happening if ourselves, Ross County or Hamilton occupied that bottom position right now. You speak of Thistle and Stranraer - please don't be so naive to kid yourself on that this is being talked about for their benefit as it isn't.

Temporary reconstruction requires 11 votes out of 12 in its favour.

It won't happen as it won't be voted in and nor should it be.  Permanent reconstruction? Possibly, and that would be fine. Temporary is a complete slap in the face though and shows just how disparagingly folk like Ann Budge regard the smaller clubs in Scotland.

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2 hours ago, lenziebud said:

I personally agree that we should leave the league as is and that there is no long term benefit for reconstruction.  EH! so why do it? Oh yes we must save Hearts.

I suspect Fitzpatrick is for it as he thinks it will allow us as a club more of a chance to stay in the top league. Complete self interest although it will be denied.     Golly gosh self interest from a saints fan.heaven forbid, I'm sure there are NO Hearts fans with similar self interest agendas?

I do though think we should reconstruct for 1 season to fix the whole relegation/promotion issues that are currently in play as I think its totally unacceptable for Hearts, Thistle etc to be facing relegation in this manner.      Erm they are not bottom of the league and if we are to crown Celtic and Dundee United champions of their leagues then the bottom clubs get relegated, unless of course you are a Jambo in disguise?

 

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53 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

No it isn't its because its inherently wrong that Hearts and Thistle, Stranraer are relegated in this manner and all the clubs are legitimate in their anger at it.

We would have been the same. I can't stand the hypocrisy of fans and boards throughout the game.

Its such a one of event that we can surely put up with a season of reconstruction to get back on the right path

I agree but the solution shouldn’t be at the detriment of other clubs to keep the status quo happy with their slice of the money. Why would it just be a temporary change? Let’s try a bigger league for a few years & if it doesn’t work have a fair voting structure in place to change it. 
 

of course we would have been but I also imagine the stance of people wouldn’t have changed from permanent to temporary or vice versa. I personally think league reconstruction is long over due & if this forces some of the clubs hands, great. (Although we now have no leverage after that vote) 

i’m sure we could, but then we’ll have another god knows how long of this same, tired league format. Scottish football has been on a downward spiral for decades, let’s try change that. 

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47 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

It doesn't matter how I'd have felt. Had a global pandemic prevented the season being played to completion, we'd have had to STFU and get on with it. We can look back on 2016/17 fondly now but that's knowing the outcome of the season with 100% hindsight.

I can absolutely guarantee you, this conversation of temporary reconstruction would not be happening if ourselves, Ross County or Hamilton occupied that bottom position right now. You speak of Thistle and Stranraer - please don't be so naive to kid yourself on that this is being talked about for their benefit as it isn't.

Temporary reconstruction requires 11 votes out of 12 in its favour.

It won't happen as it won't be voted in and nor should it be.  Permanent reconstruction? Possibly, and that would be fine. Temporary is a complete slap in the face though and shows just how disparagingly folk like Ann Budge regard the smaller clubs in Scotland.

Totally agree. For the original proposal which was stalled by Dundee, then for PT and Stranraer and the promotion teams it was tough shit. Suck it up. The SPFL Board were not interested.

Only when Hearts started shouting loudly did suddenly the concept of reconstruction come on to the table when the vote went against them. In vplace of 'fairness' (read Hearts self preservation).

A temp reconstruction to say 14 will give Hearts a season with their huge budget to get their act together and possibly 3 teams getting auto relegation next season when Hearts are safe. Hearts are only concerned about Hearts.

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1 hour ago, jaybee said:

The question you really need to ask yourself is>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would anyone (apart from saints fans) be bovered if it was us in Heats position, I am fairly sure of the answer which is .....would thjey feck.

There are a lot more clubs involved in this other than Hearts. They are the high profile one. To answer your question I would be bothered 100% as it is wrong full stop. 

There are only 2 clubs in Scotland I wouldn't be bothered with if it happened to them and one of them at the moment are an utter disgrace. 

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1 hour ago, lenziebud said:

There are a lot more clubs involved in this other than Hearts. They are the high profile one. To answer your question I would be bothered 100% as it is wrong full stop. 

There are only 2 clubs in Scotland I wouldn't be bothered with if it happened to them and one of them at the moment are an utter disgrace. 

Just to be clear, are you simply suggesting that reconstruction is a fair outcome, or are you saying that short term reconstruction is a fair outcome.

it would be absolutely stupid to suggest that Budge shouldn’t be doing all in her power to limit the damage to her club, but all I ask is that she is at least f**king honest about what she is doing I.e. her plan is for the good of Hearts and the good of Hearts only. If her plan was for permanent reconstruction, I’d have a different view. 

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1 hour ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Just to be clear, are you simply suggesting that reconstruction is a fair outcome, or are you saying that short term reconstruction is a fair outcome.

it would be absolutely stupid to suggest that Budge shouldn’t be doing all in her power to limit the damage to her club, but all I ask is that she is at least f**king honest about what she is doing I.e. her plan is for the good of Hearts and the good of Hearts only. If her plan was for permanent reconstruction, I’d have a different view. 

Short term reconstruction to fix the total injustice of any side being relegated due to season being cut short. 

If all of Scottish football agree on long term reconstruction then fair enough, me personally I think the leagues work fine as they are.

Do you really think that Budge is going to come out with a statement along the lines of I'm just doing this out of interest for my club, really ?

Its actually about principal above all the small minded cr@p that is being thrown about about Hearts.

I've just  noticed Aberdeen chairman is onside to reconstruction for 1 or 2 seasons out of fairness to all https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52339223

Anyway for all the debate I think its a certainty that there will be a 14 club Premiership next season.

Edited by lenziebud
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7 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

Short term reconstruction to fix the total injustice of any side being relegated due to season being cut short. 

If all of Scottish football agree on long term reconstruction then fair enough, me personally I think the leagues work fine as they are.

Do you really think that Budge is going to come out with a statement along the lines of I'm just doing this out of interest for my club, really ?

Its actually about principal above all the small minded cr@p that is being thrown about about Hearts.

I've just  noticed Aberdeen chairman is onside to reconstruction for 1 or 2 seasons out of fairness to all https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52339223

 

In fairness a team like Aberdeen have little to worry about from it.

I doubt you’ll see the likes of us, Hamilton, Ross County or Livingston voting for it. 

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1 hour ago, lenziebud said:
2 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

In fairness a team like Aberdeen have little to worry about from it.

I doubt you’ll see the likes of us, Hamilton, Ross County or Livingston voting for it. 

Lets see what happens but I'd be very surprised if its not a 14 club Premiership next season.

Might this be because you believe the more you repeat it the likelier it is to happen?

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9 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

And to be absolutely clear, I am not at all against a 14 team league next season. I’m just against doing it for a season or two for no other reason than to suit Hearts. 

It would be very tough for us next season if its only extended for one year.

With United coming up and you'd expect Hearts to get better.  It would end up being us, Hamilton, Ross County, Inverness and Livi fighting it out for one guaranteed survival place.

Edited by LargsBud
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Co-Chair of the Reconstruction Committee Hamilton's Les Gray says he/Hamilton wants any reconstruction to be permanent.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/les-gray-spfl-reconstruction-conflicts-21892917

Quote

Gray understands it is a hefty task that won’t get off the ground unless positions of neutrality are immediately found.

But a perfect example of conflicting outlooks comes from the chair positions.

Budge has stated publicly she would prefer a temporary restructure, while Gray’s own board at Hamilton want permanent change.

 

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15 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Co-Chair of the Reconstruction Committee Hamilton's Les Gray says he/Hamilton wants any reconstruction to be permanent.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/les-gray-spfl-reconstruction-conflicts-21892917

 

Why does Budge want this to be temporary? Is it because the current league works best for Hearts financially and she doesn't expect them to be this shit again? If so she is so Hearts centric and conflicted she should be removed from the committee 

Edited by magnus
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3 minutes ago, magnus said:

Why does Budge want this to be temporary? Is it because the current league works best for Hearts financially and she doesn't expect them to be this shit again? If so she is so Hearts centruc and conflicted she should be removed from the committee 

Its the only interpretation of her stance I can think of - as a successful businesswoman she's probably used to people falling over themselves to do her bidding. She won't be the first of her ilk to find out that's not the way it works in Scottish football.

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Budge is only interested in Hearts. Anyone who thinks her motivation is for the good of Scottish football is kidding themselves on. She wants reconstruction for one season to save their arses then keep the money rolling in when they stay up next season. Really hope Gordon votes a big fat NO.

 

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32 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Budge is only interested in Hearts. Anyone who thinks her motivation is for the good of Scottish football is kidding themselves on. She wants reconstruction for one season to save their arses then keep the money rolling in when they stay up next season. Really hope Gordon votes a big fat NO.

 

What if league expansion is for longer term? 

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This is the woman who said 42 clubs was double what was required.

I think we need to forget the motivation here and look at the opportunity. The Premiership is too small and we need a wider base. How long have we been discussing this.

Open it up, IMHO to 16 , trial it, and hopefully when and if we get back to some sort of normality, we can then gauge if it is better.

We cant keep this 2 club mentality, its killing our game, stopping development of home grown players …..

Cant stand the woman, but I do hope we see change...…….. 

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13 minutes ago, munoz said:

What if league expansion is for longer term? 

That's it - in a 14 club top flight realistically we lose one home OF game per season, prize money will be diluted and all this in a very uncertain economic background where money is likely to be tight for both individuals and sponsors for a few years. Unless the reconstruction is for a minimum of 5 years to take account of this then as I've said before there is no benefit for us, Hamilton, Ross County or Livi even the likes of  Kilmarnock & the Fakes have all been at or around the bottom this season.

Unless Budge accepts this then we should vote in our best interests which as Sonny says will be a big fat NO.

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