14 September Indicative Return

[Hendo]

9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I hate to say it but I genuinely can't see any semblance of normality until next season at the earliest.

It’s going to be one panic attack enforced over-reaction after another from those in charge.

As I said before, it's unclear what level of infections and deaths will ever be low enough for Sturgeon. Zero deaths and fewer than 20 new cases per day for 6 weeks wasn't low enough so it's anyone's guess what she is actually looking for. Even if she told us what her targets were for normality, that would help people set their expectations appropriately.

The only positive is that it's a government who have been shown to buckle under pressure, as seen during the pish suggestion that blended learning was ever a feasible option in schools. The problem is the majority of the public are still in a state of fear, while those questioning what is going on have been undermined by all the anti-vaxxers and right wing odd jobs having strange demonstrations.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

I think we’re heading backwards if anything. Just watching the MSM  news the last couple of nights you can just see them building up the panic. Cases on the rise, multiple local lockdowns, panic panic panic.

I am f**king sick of it. I wish I could brainwash everyone into thinking the same way as me. Which is basically f**k this f**king shite. Back to normal please. If I get it I get it, if I die I die. So be it. 

[Slarti]

I think we’re heading backwards if anything. Just watching the MSM  news the last couple of nights you can just see them building up the panic. Cases on the rise, multiple local lockdowns, panic panic panic.
I am f**king sick of it. I wish I could brainwash everyone into thinking the same way as me. Which is basically f**k this f**king shite. Back to normal please. If I get it I get it, if I die I die. So be it. 

You want absolutely everyone to be a complete imbecile? [emoji38]

[Fricky-Troll]

I mentioned over in the virus thread more and more people are at, or getting to , the same opinion.

Over reaction, which has been evident since the start, is now beginning to get to more and more people. 

I don’t know what the situation is in Scotland, but here in Leeds, we are hearing about COVID in the media but not seeing the evidence in reality.

 

My son is an NHS operations manager and responsible for over 350 doctors and nurses and was involved in coordinating the Nightingale hospital in Harrogate which was used for any coronavirus patients.( none went )

 

In 6 months, I don’t know of anyone who has had it or of anyone who knows someone who has had it.

 

People here are wondering if it exists, if so , where. The reason nhs staff were outside hospitals etc clapping was mainly due to the fact nobody was inside requiring attention.

 

I wear a mask when at work/shops etc but increasingly, people simply aren’t bothering.

 

Time to let fans back , even limited numbers

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

7 hours ago, Slarti said:

 

 

You want absolutely everyone to be a complete imbecile?

 

Whyayeoughta.....😤

[Hendo]

2 hours ago, Fricky-Troll said:

I don’t know what the situation is in Scotland, but here in Leeds, we are hearing about COVID in the media but not seeing the evidence in reality.

 

My son is an NHS operations manager and responsible for over 350 doctors and nurses and was involved in coordinating the Nightingale hospital in Harrogate which was used for any coronavirus patients.( none went )

 

In 6 months, I don’t know of anyone who has had it or of anyone who knows someone who has had it.

 

People here are wondering if it exists, if so , where. The reason nhs staff were outside hospitals etc clapping was mainly due to the fact nobody was inside requiring attention.

 

I wear a mask when at work/shops etc but increasingly, people simply aren’t bothering.

 

Time to let fans back , even limited numbers

In Scotland, the figures are pretty clear. Since 12th June, the numbers dying have plateaued and hardly increased. The numbers in hospital have decreased from around 1400 at the peak in April to around 200 now (and the government acknowledges that these figures include those who did have Covid but have now recovered and are in hospital being treated for other conditions). These numbers have been steady around the 200 mark since the beginning of July. The numbers in intensive care have been negligible, usually fewer than 5, since the beginning of July. 

Yes, there has been a rise in cases with restrictions being lifted, but still hardly anyone is getting seriously ill or dying with it, which begs the question, why are the restrictions continuing?

Edited September 7, 2020 by Hendo

[oaksoft]

10 hours ago, Hendo said:

In Scotland, the figures are pretty clear. Since 12th June, the numbers dying have plateaued and hardly increased. The numbers in hospital have decreased from around 1400 at the peak in April to around 200 now (and the government acknowledges that these figures include those who did have Covid but have now recovered and are in hospital being treated for other conditions). These numbers have been steady around the 200 mark since the beginning of July. The numbers in intensive care have been negligible, usually fewer than 5, since the beginning of July. 

Yes, there has been a rise in cases with restrictions being lifted, but still hardly anyone is getting seriously ill or dying with it, which begs the question, why are the restrictions continuing?

There is absolutely no logic at all other than our leaders being overly panicky.

We've missed a great chance for herd immunity here. We really have.

[ALBIONSAINT]

14 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

There is absolutely no logic at all other than our leaders being overly panicky.

We've missed a great chance for herd immunity here. We really have.

I herd immunity is overrated. 
 

Al get ma coat...

[waldorf34]

10 hours ago, Hendo said:

In Scotland, the figures are pretty clear. Since 12th June, the numbers dying have plateaued and hardly increased. The numbers in hospital have decreased from around 1400 at the peak in April to around 200 now (and the government acknowledges that these figures include those who did have Covid but have now recovered and are in hospital being treated for other conditions). These numbers have been steady around the 200 mark since the beginning of July. The numbers in intensive care have been negligible, usually fewer than 5, since the beginning of July. 

Yes, there has been a rise in cases with restrictions being lifted, but still hardly anyone is getting seriously ill or dying with it, which begs the question, why are the restrictions continuing?

Let's see where we are in 2 weeks

[branniganm]

Ain't a shit show now of crowds being in grounds any time soon. Wee Nicky has lost her nerve, if she ever had it. 

[Hendo]

18 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

Let's see where we are in 2 weeks

Still in the house by the looks of it. And no visitors.

[thepaisleypanda]

1 hour ago, branniganm said:

Ain't a shit show now of crowds being in grounds any time soon. Wee Nicky has lost her nerve, if she ever had it. 

And you would moan if she did nothing & your family got struck?

 

She cant win! (A bit like Scotland tonight!) 

[branniganm]

10 hours ago, thepaisleypanda said:

And you would moan if she did nothing & your family got struck?

 

She cant win! (A bit like Scotland tonight!) 

I'm not moaning about anything, merely expressing an opinion that the current restrictions and control measures being imposed in the West of Scotland are a nonsense.

I wouldn't worry if my family 'got struck' because I believe the disease is mild in the vast majority of the population. Who knows, it may have been through the house already and we've all been asymptomatic ? 

The virus cannot now be 'eliminated'.  To the best of my knowledge this has only happened with one human virus, smallpox, and that took decades.

I'm with Oaksoft in that herd immunity is likely the best way to progress now. A covid vaccine won't be available for the general population any time soon.

'A wee bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing' but I would like to think I would know something about virology and epidemiology (the study of disease in populations) because I am vet.

[Buddymarvellous]

You’re a vet - I’m a soaken...

[oaksoft]

10 hours ago, thepaisleypanda said:

And you would moan if she did nothing & your family got struck?

 

It's called risk.

I don't stop my family walking across the street even though there is a daily risk of them being killed by a bus.

If you want 100% guarantee of absolutely nobody dying then you're in the wrong game bud.

Yes, there's a risk of catching covid. Absolutely nobody is denying that. What we're saying is that the risk of death from it is too low to warrant the restrictions we are being placed under.

If we catch it, we catch it. If a loved one dies from it, then that would be very sad but that's what life is about I'm afraid. Life is risk.

Edited September 8, 2020 by oaksoft

[Cookie Monster]

In 6 months, I don’t know of anyone who has had it or of anyone who knows someone who has had it.
 
People here are wondering if it exists, if so , where. The reason nhs staff were outside hospitals etc clapping was mainly due to the fact nobody was inside requiring attention.
 
I wear a mask when at work/shops etc but increasingly, people simply aren’t bothering.
 
Time to let fans back , even limited numbers

I wish I was the same, couple of parents no longer with us. Also 3 or 4 work colleagues have tested positive.

I agree there could be fans back, number wise I believe about 200 each stand first game. If that works, increase appropriately.

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

It's called risk.

I don't stop my family walking across the street even though there is a daily risk of them being killed by a bus.

If you want 100% guarantee of absolutely nobody dying then you're in the wrong game bud.

Yes, there's a risk of catching covid. Absolutely nobody is denying that. What we're saying is that the risk of death from it is too low to warrant the restrictions we are being placed under.

If we catch it, we catch it. If a loved one dies from it, then that would be very sad but that's what life is about I'm afraid. Life is risk.

I think there is another context at play, it’s not that it kills or seriously damages the majority, it’s the lottery whether you get it. This means that employers, schools universities, public services are all highly aware of the potential for litigation (remember PPI) should they not implement government advice. It’s catch 22 , do the government change the advice then lay themselves open to an army of litigation lawyers when a minority of people die or get seriously ill? 

[Fricky-Troll]

I wish I was the same, couple of parents no longer with us. Also 3 or 4 work colleagues have tested positive.

I agree there could be fans back, number wise I believe about 200 each stand first game. If that works, increase appropriately.

I’m genuinely sorry that you’re family situation suffered.

Still haven’t come across anyone in Leeds as yet with it, yet we are on lockdown watch list [emoji15]

[Cookie Monster]

I’m genuinely sorry that you’re family situation suffered.

Still haven’t come across anyone in Leeds as yet with it, yet we are on lockdown watch list [emoji15]

My bad, that should have read, a couple of mates parents.

Other mates have parents in local care homes, feel for them not getting to see their folks at this time for no fault of their own.

[oaksoft]

54 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

I think there is another context at play, it’s not that it kills or seriously damages the majority, it’s the lottery whether you get it. This means that employers, schools universities, public services are all highly aware of the potential for litigation (remember PPI) should they not implement government advice. It’s catch 22 , do the government change the advice then lay themselves open to an army of litigation lawyers when a minority of people die or get seriously ill? 

Why would the government get sued?

What law would they be breaking by taking a different approach to this virus?

Edited September 8, 2020 by oaksoft

[aldo_j]

Confirmed that our game won’t be a test event due to local lockdown.

County and Aberdeen selected.

[ALBIONSAINT]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Why would the government get sued?

What law would they be breaking by taking a different approach to this virus?

Sorry but we should take this over to the coronavirus thread....However here is a starter before the main course.

UK Government Faces Lawsuit Over 'Failure' to Provide COVID-19 Support for Precarious Workers", 24 March 2020

The Independent Workers Union of Great Britain (IWGB) has announced that it will be taking legal action against the UK government over its COVID-19 economic support measures which - they argue - "discriminate" against, and fail to provide proper support for, self-employed workers, women, minority groups, and those in the "gig economy"..

...Boris Johnson's government announced that it will provide £25,000 cash grants for small businesses, pay employees' wages up to 80% (up to £2,500 a month), "so someone can be furloughed rather than laid off", defer tax collections, and abolish business rates for the hospitality, retail, and leisure sectors for one year...

...But most of the COVID-19-related economic measures, including the wage subsidies, don't assist self-employed or precarious workers...

can you imagine what would happen if the government was to go against WHO advice? It would make PPI look like chicken feed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Sorry but we should take this over to the coronavirus thread....However here is a starter before the main course.

UK Government Faces Lawsuit Over 'Failure' to Provide COVID-19 Support for Precarious Workers", 24 March 2020

The Independent Workers Union of Great Britain (IWGB) has announced that it will be taking legal action against the UK government over its COVID-19 economic support measures which - they argue - "discriminate" against, and fail to provide proper support for, self-employed workers, women, minority groups, and those in the "gig economy"..

...Boris Johnson's government announced that it will provide £25,000 cash grants for small businesses, pay employees' wages up to 80% (up to £2,500 a month), "so someone can be furloughed rather than laid off", defer tax collections, and abolish business rates for the hospitality, retail, and leisure sectors for one year...

...But most of the COVID-19-related economic measures, including the wage subsidies, don't assist self-employed or precarious workers...

can you imagine what would happen if the government was to go against WHO advice? It would make PPI look like chicken feed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll answer this on the covid thread.

[ALBIONSAINT]

30 minutes ago, freethinker said:

Shouldn't be a problem.

When 20 Livy fans are in our away end , they produce a better atmosphere than our 3 home stands combined and easily outsing the Northbankers in W7.

Great example of an Oxymoron 

[Sue Denim]

On 9/7/2020 at 9:38 PM, oaksoft said:

There is absolutely no logic at all other than our leaders being overly panicky.

We've missed a great chance for herd immunity here. We really have.

We’ve probably already reached herd immunity with only isolated areas still susceptible to small outbreaks. 
 

Lockdown and restrictions have achieved nothing other than kill tens of thousands of people in the U.K. , wreck the livelihoods of millions. The rich have got richer, everyone has got poorer and hundreds of millions in the third world will die.

Its a man made disaster of incredible proportions.

History will not look kindly on Boris Johnson, Nicola Sturgeon and their  incompetent governments.