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J.M.
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46 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

We made some blunders in the transfer market at the start of that season.

Sold Billy Stark to Aberdeen very cheaply and before freedom of contract and signed striker Rowan Alexander. Possibly Ricky McFarlane’s thinking was that McAvennie would assume the attacking midfield role but Alex Miller decided, quite rightly, that he was a striker when he arrived.

And we swapped Lex Richardson for another striker, Eric Sinclair, who I think played once.....

In the 86/87 season the Saints would use a 4-3-3 scheme, with the midfielders who played the most as starters Billy Abercromby, Paul Lambert and Ian Ferguson? being Abercromby the one who did a more defensive job? .... although he also played many games as a starter Brian Hamilton who I think was also a defensive-style midfielder.

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1 hour ago, Yflab said:

I remember that Stevie Clarke scored a scorcher of a goal just on the half time whistle in that game that was chalked off while the shot was airborne.

Was that goal not scored in a 3-3 draw against the Arabs? Scored from way out on the right, in front of the enclosure.

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79/80 to 84/85 was without any doubt the best period in our club’s history.

A 3rd place, a 4th place, 3 5th places and a 6th in the League.

3 cup semi finals

An Anglo Scottish Cup win

3 of only 4 European adventures in our history.

For a club like ours it was a golden period and I feel privileged that those were my formative years as a St. Mirren fan.  The mid 70s gave me the bug and then that period just sealed the deal. 
I could have extended it out to 87 to capture the cup win, but as magical a day as that was, from 86 onwards, as a league team you just felt that the rot had started to set in a little and we were definitely no longer the consistent force we had been before. 

Edited by TPAFKA Jersey 2
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15 hours ago, J.M. said:

In the 86/87 season the Saints would use a 4-3-3 scheme, with the midfielders who played the most as starters Billy Abercromby, Paul Lambert and Ian Ferguson? being Abercromby the one who did a more defensive job? .... although he also played many games as a starter Brian Hamilton who I think was also a defensive-style midfielder.

86/87 was a long season with 44 league games plus the cups and there was a change of manager half way through. A whole lost of players were used and formations tried. It was probably the first time I’d ever seen us without more or less a settled 13/14 players who’d be used throughout the season.

Ian Ferguson didn’t arrive until a few games into the season and we initially had Dougie Bell on loan in midfield. Tony Fitzpatrick was still a regular as well as was Gardner Speirs until he got injured.

Paul Lambert actually started the season playing as a striker alongside McGarvey with Brian Gallagher playing wide in a 4-3-3.

Steve Clarke started the season in central defence but was switched to right back just before Chelsea signed him. My suspicion is that he was switched to right back to allow Chelsea to see him there before signing him. Once he left then Neil Cooper replaced him. Peter Godfrey has been the centre half but got injured and was replaced by David Winnie who had been playing left back. Derek Hamilton then came back into the side at left back. Tommy Wilson was the right back for most of the season.

 

Miller reverted to 4-4-2 with Ian Ferguson in midfield and Ian Cameron coming into the side wide left after Speirs was injured.

Paul Chalmers also arrived to play up front.

Billy Abercromby played a few games at left back that season and was then suspended for 12 games have his triple sending off against Motherwell.

Alex Smith switched to 4-3-3 in the latter part of the season. Paul Chalmers scored twice in the cup win at Cappielow but after he got injured, Smith pushed Ian Ferguson up front. Abercromby came back into the side from suspension and replaced the injured Fitzpatrick in midfield.

The midfield 3 in the cup final were Hamilton, Abercromby and Lambert with McGarvey, McDowall and Ferguson up front.

 

Edited by Sue Denim
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18 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

We made some blunders in the transfer market at the start of that season.

Sold Billy Stark to Aberdeen very cheaply and before freedom of contract and signed striker Rowan Alexander.

Billy's contract was up and he was free to sign for another club, subject to a fee determined by the two clubs involved or the dreaded transfer tribunal.  We had offered a new contract, Aberdeen offered much better wages and a higher profile.  Not quite what Bosman ushered in which created the huge gaps in football finances.

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2 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

86/87 was a long season with 44 league games plus the cups and there was a change of manager half way through. A whole lost of players were used and formations tried. It was probably the first time I’d ever seen us without more or less a settled 13/14 players who’d be used throughout the season.

Ian Ferguson didn’t arrive until a few games into the season and we initially had Dougie Bell on loan in midfield. Tony Fitzpatrick was still a regular as well as was Gardner Speirs until he got injured.

Paul Lambert actually started the season playing as a striker alongside McGarvey with Brian Gallagher playing wide in a 4-3-3.

Steve Clarke started the season in central defence but was switched to right back just before Chelsea signed him. My suspicion is that he was switched to right back to allow Chelsea to see him there before signing him. Once he left then Neil Cooper replaced him. Peter Godfrey has been the centre half but got injured and was replaced by David Winnie who had been playing left back. Derek Hamilton then came back into the side at left back. Tommy Wilson was the right back for most of the season.

 

Miller reverted to 4-4-2 with Ian Ferguson in midfield and Ian Cameron coming into the side wide left after Speirs was injured.

Paul Chalmers also arrived to play up front.

Billy Abercromby played a few games at left back that season and was then suspended for 12 games have his triple sending off against Motherwell.

Alex Smith switched to 4-3-3 in the latter part of the season. Paul Chalmers scored twice in the cup win at Cappielow but after he got injured, Smith pushed Ian Ferguson up front. Abercromby came back into the side from suspension and replaced the injured Fitzpatrick in midfield.

The midfield 3 in the cup final were Hamilton, Abercromby and Lambert with McGarvey, McDowall and Ferguson up front.

 

So, Brian Gallagher and Kenny McDowall could play wingers too? McGarvey and Chalmers as center forwards?

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1 hour ago, J.M. said:

so that three-man attack would be just three forwards, but not as a center forward and two wingers.

Or it would be rather, two center forwards (Gallagher, McDowall, McGarvey or Chalmers) and an attacking midfielder behind them Lambert or Ferguson and then we would be talking about these players being more attacking at the beginning of his sports career??

Edited by J.M.
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5 hours ago, Yflab said:

Gall and the Monk as wingers? Are you having a 😂 

Gall actually did start out wide at the very start of 86/87 with Lambert and McGarvey through the middle IIRC.

It was a strange set up with Gall being an out and out winger with 3 in midfield. Gardner Speirs had been on the left of midfield and was moved to a sort of inside right.

Was quickly abandoned.

Gall was quick so that was maybe the thinking. I think he’s played a few games with Kilmarnock on the wing. 
 

If Gall was playing today I could see him on the left of a front 3 cutting inside. 

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4 hours ago, J.M. said:

Or it would be rather, two center forwards (Gallagher, McDowall, McGarvey or Chalmers) and an attacking midfielder behind them Lambert or Ferguson and then we would be talking about these players being more attacking at the beginning of his sports career??

My memory of the cup winning side was a 3 man midfield of Hamilton, Abercromby and Lambert with 3 forwards who interchanged - McGarvey, McDowall and Ferguson.

 

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On 8/19/2020 at 6:32 PM, J.M. said:

being Abercromby the one who did a more defensive job? 

Frank McAvennie reckons that Aber was the first real sitting midfielder in British football , a project started by Fergie that he didn't get the chance to see through !

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On 8/20/2020 at 12:16 PM, rabuddies said:

Billy's contract was up and he was free to sign for another club, subject to a fee determined by the two clubs involved or the dreaded transfer tribunal.  We had offered a new contract, Aberdeen offered much better wages and a higher profile.  Not quite what Bosman ushered in which created the huge gaps in football finances.

I think the club was in a bad way and needed money in

We had to get of the high earners and Miller felt the senior players held too much power

Cowboy for Mackie another raw deal with Dundee again being the winner

Thompson to Utd for a song quite disgraceful for an International

MacDougall for a bargain to Aberdeen at the time we being their feeder team

Fulton to Hibs for another paltry fee. No secret that Miller and him didn't get on as we witnessed at a New Year game. Where Fulton being injured hobbling on one foot and clearly in pain. Miller had him playing on for 10 mins making the injury worse despite having a sub available

 

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I think the club was in a bad way and needed money in
We had to get of the high earners and Miller felt the senior players held too much power
Cowboy for Mackie another raw deal with Dundee again being the winner
Thompson to Utd for a song quite disgraceful for an International
MacDougall for a bargain to Aberdeen at the time we being their feeder team
Fulton to Hibs for another paltry fee. No secret that Miller and him didn't get on as we witnessed at a New Year game. Where Fulton being injured hobbling on one foot and clearly in pain. Miller had him playing on for 10 mins making the injury worse despite having a sub available
 
Fulton's Mum used to bank in the branch where I worked and made no secret of her loathing of Miller.

If his man management had only matched his coaching ability, he could have been up there with the best.

I liked Mark Fulton as a player.
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On 8/20/2020 at 12:16 PM, rabuddies said:

Billy's contract was up and he was free to sign for another club, subject to a fee determined by the two clubs involved or the dreaded transfer tribunal.  We had offered a new contract, Aberdeen offered much better wages and a higher profile.  Not quite what Bosman ushered in which created the huge gaps in football finances.

I thought Stark moved to Aberdeen pre Bosman days so I don't think there would have been a tribunal. My thoughts at the time was Alex Miller hated the fact that Saints had a lot of players who earned more playing for Saints than he did when he played for Rangers. He also had a remit to reduce the wage bill. Hence Thompson, Fulton, McDogall and McCormack all left the club rather cheaply. 

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1 hour ago, MenstrieSaint said:

I thought Stark moved to Aberdeen pre Bosman days so I don't think there would have been a tribunal. My thoughts at the time was Alex Miller hated the fact that Saints had a lot of players who earned more playing for Saints than he did when he played for Rangers. He also had a remit to reduce the wage bill. Hence Thompson, Fulton, McDogall and McCormack all left the club rather cheaply. 

The transfer tribunal pre-dated Bosman and has largely fallen out of use post Bosman, except when a player under 24 moves clubs when their contract ends.  FIFA with the support FIFPRO plan to do away with them altogether and apply a 1% levy to all transfers and introduce a flat rate development fee payed from the levy fund?  Good luck on that one if it comes into force.

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