Club covid executives - a statement.

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, Slarti said:

I would assume that the legal advice would include the facts that there is no way of knowing if the rule breaking contributed to the spread, no way of applying a probability to it and therefore no way of knowing whether the postponements were in any way related to the rule breaking. Assumptions are not proof and "likelihoods" need to be demonstrated, not just guessed at.

The fine is justified (for the rule breaking), the forfeits are not.

Also, the 3-0 awards punish other teams that have not been accused of anything.

This legal stuff is piss easy.

 

On 12/4/2020 at 9:05 PM, stlucifer said:

It's nothing to do with "what". Are you so simple you can't read? It's about "HOW" the players caught the virus.  No one can say for certain the flaunting of the rules caused the outbreak so the SPFL, given they punished us and killie because we couldn't fulfil our commitment, have inflicted the punishment on an assumption. Not a fact.

I agree.

 

The bit in bold is not directed at you BTW.  😉 The emoji is the hint.

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by stlucifer

[Cookie Monster]

I would assume that the legal advice would include the facts that there is no way of knowing if the rule breaking contributed to the spread, no way of applying a probability to it and therefore no way of knowing whether the postponements were in any way related to the rule breaking. Assumptions are not proof and "likelihoods" need to be demonstrated, not just guessed at.

The fine is justified (for the rule breaking), the forfeits are not.

Also, the 3-0 awards punish other teams that have not been accused of anything.

This legal stuff is piss easy. [emoji38]

Regarding proof. In a criminal case where it generally has to be "established beyond a reasonable doubt," in a civil case it is judged to a lower standard of proof such as "the preponderance of the evidence." [emoji106]


Here endeth today's lesson. [emoji6]

[Tommy]

I wonder what the punishment would have been if both us and Killie were to play each other, and neither of us had enough player to play the game  

[Cookie Monster]

I wonder what the punishment would have been if both us and Killie were to play each other, and neither of us had enough player to play the game  

That is a scenario that IMO makes a mockery of their judgement. [emoji23]

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, Tommy said:

I wonder what the punishment would have been if both us and Killie were to play each other, and neither of us had enough player to play the game  

Wan and a half each obviously. 

So a point each, bingo. 

[Tommy]

1 minute ago, Cookie Monster said:

That is a scenario that IMO makes a mockery of their judgement.

Maybe both us and Killie get 3 points for a 3-0 win  

[Dibbles old paperboy]

7 minutes ago, Tommy said:

I wonder what the punishment would have been if both us and Killie were to play each other, and neither of us had enough player to play the game  

The same scenario arrived earlier in the season when Celtic and Aberdeen should have met in the league but the Scottish Government banned them from playing due to covid breaches... no forfeits!

[Tommy]

3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Wan and a half each obviously. 

So a point each, bingo. 

3 points to us since Killie wanted the game off and 3 points to them since we wanted the game off is surely fairer   

[Tommy]

1 minute ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

The same scenario arrived earlier in the season when Celtic and Aberdeen should have met in the league but the Scottish Government banned them from playing due to covid breaches... no forfeits!

Hope that's the lawyers argument for the club. 

[oaksoft]

12 minutes ago, Tommy said:

I wonder what the punishment would have been if both us and Killie were to play each other, and neither of us had enough player to play the game  

Both teams would be given 3-0 defeats.

[Cookie Monster]

Both teams would be given 3-0 defeats.

With their opponents awarded 3-0 victories to be consistent with the precedent they set. [emoji6]

[uhura]

What if the decision is changed to a 2 point deduction and play both the games. What do we think about that, is it better for us, maybe the same. Or might it be worse for us. 

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

 

 

Regarding proof. In a criminal case where it generally has to be "established beyond a reasonable doubt," in a civil case it is judged to a lower standard of proof such as "the preponderance of the evidence."


Here endeth today's lesson.

 

Even under that criteria, the evidence is not overwhelming given the players spend the majority of their time away from the club and they do interact quite a bit actually playing the game they're paid to play without any facial coverings or social distancing, sometimes against teams who don't test. Plenty of time to catch the virus.

[pod]

3 hours ago, Slarti said:

I would assume that the legal advice would include the facts that there is no way of knowing if the rule breaking contributed to the spread, no way of applying a probability to it and therefore no way of knowing whether the postponements were in any way related to the rule breaking. Assumptions are not proof and "likelihoods" need to be demonstrated, not just guessed at.

The fine is justified (for the rule breaking), the forfeits are not.

Also, the 3-0 awards punish other teams that have not been accused of anything.

This legal stuff is piss easy.

All sorted then. What's the verdict. 

[pod]

1 hour ago, Yflab said:

Lawyers will get paid regardless of the outcome. 💰

Will the lawyer give us a discount if we don't take it to court.  

[Slarti]

Regarding proof. In a criminal case where it generally has to be "established beyond a reasonable doubt," in a civil case it is judged to a lower standard of proof such as "the preponderance of the evidence." [emoji106]


Here endeth today's lesson. [emoji6]

But this isn't a court case ar all, criminal or civil. So you can stick your lesson up yer arse. [emoji850]

Even if you were right, there is no evidence at all that the rule breaking caused the spread, therefore there can be no preponderance. The only honest answer to the question of whether it did is "Nobody knows". There isn't even any way that anyone could logically apply an accurate probability to it.

[Slarti]

All sorted then. What's the verdict. 

Probably guilty, guilty, guilty with the punishment of 3-0 defeats for the whole season - it is Scottish fitba authorities after all.

Seeing as Killie only postponed one game, they will get to play one game (the rest being 3-0 defeats) which they will lose 4-0 get relegated, with us winning the playoff and staying up.

[Cumbriansaint72]

I've got to say fair enough to the club  if they want to appeal the decision but I cannot see it being overturned, what would be interesting to see if the same punishment is handed out to any other clubs that have to cancel games if they cant field a team for whatever reason.

Reading in to it all the financial penalty was for the covid breaches and the 3-0 losses for being unable to field a team, which is standard even down as far, say, sunday league football.

What makes 2 of the breaches even worse was 1) the disregard for whatever establishment catered for the pre-match meal which would have to have made themselves covid compliant, and 2) also a disregard for the company that provides team coach, who would have to have made coach covid compliant with very visible signs for which seats etc to be used.

I do however think there probably has been a major baw kicking from the new directors and would be very, very surprised if we have a repeat of this.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

47 minutes ago, Slarti said:

 

 

But this isn't a court case ar all, criminal or civil. So you can stick your lesson up yer arse.

Even if you were right, there is no evidence at all that the rule breaking caused the spread, therefore there can be no preponderance. The only honest answer to the question of whether it did is "Nobody knows". There isn't even any way that anyone could logically apply an accurate probability to it.

 

Nicola Sturgeon suggested one reason why numbers were going up in Scotland in October was people taking daytrips and weekends away in Blackpool and I think she conceded that although it looked like there was a link she couldn't prove (beyond reasonable doubt) one person had caught the virus by taking a trip to Blackpool and catching it there.

[Ronnie]

Technically the Government "advised the Spfl to postpone the games".

The same scenario arrived earlier in the season when Celtic and Aberdeen should have met in the league but the Scottish Government banned them from playing due to covid breaches... no forfeits!

[pod]

9 hours ago, Cumbriansaint72 said:

I've got to say fair enough to the club  if they want to appeal the decision but I cannot see it being overturned, what would be interesting to see if the same punishment is handed out to any other clubs that have to cancel games if they cant field a team for whatever reason.

 

Now that they're aware of the consequences, they'll all be testing they're reserve players.  I don't believe St.Mirren were the only one not. 

[pod]

8 hours ago, Yflab said:

I’d suggest you stick to the day job. Stand up comedy doesn’t seem to work.

🤣🤣  Thanks for the advice, does that come free.

Can you give me some tips, your really funny.

Edited December 10, 2020 by pod

[Cumbriansaint72]

38 minutes ago, pod said:

Now that they're aware of the consequences, they'll all be testing they're reserve players.  I don't believe St.Mirren were the only one not. 

I agree but not every club publicises the fact they were short of goalkeepers and then having to loan one in from of all clubs, Hearts. Unfortunately once you do this, then anything that follows after this will be looked into in depth by SFA, etc.

Other clubs I'd say have and no doubt will go in for the 'injury crisis' and emergency loan deals instead of being honest 

[shull]

What a dire and boring Thread.

Need Bazil to contribute to brighten it up.

Zzzzzzzzz

[pod]

45 minutes ago, Yflab said:

I’d certainly recommend you brush up on your English writing skills as you are making some basic errors.

Na, will give that a pass. Never found it neccessary befour.