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Club covid executives - a statement.


antrin
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20 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

The NHS IMT report conclusion was that our lack of adherence was likely to have caused the infection to spread. I take it you haven't read the full findings ? If we as a club were not following the rules we signed up to and those breaches were likely to cause spread of Covid in a situation where we encountered a positive case amongst playing staff then it's an open and shut case.

The actual postponements were not one of the charges they were a consequence of our non adherence. It was agreed by all 12 clubs that these measures were designed to prevent spread of infection. Where the infection originated from is totally irrelevant, we by our non adherence gave the infection the chance to spread and as a direct consequence of that we were unable to fulfill our fixtures.

Likely is not a definite. Like I say. We were guilty of not following guidelines. NO ONE can say it was this that definitely caused the call off of games so how can the SPFL decide this was the cause. It's a ridiculous, draconian decision which affects EVERY club in the league

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40 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Likely is not a definite. Like I say. We were guilty of not following guidelines. NO ONE can say it was this that definitely caused the call off of games so how can the SPFL decide this was the cause. It's a ridiculous, draconian decision which affects EVERY club in the league

What else could have caused the game to be cancelled? :blink:

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So after time to reflect clubs can contravene the Covid Protocol but SPFL will only intervene if it results in the cancellation of the relevant fixture.The picture today of the entire Dundee Utd squad of players coaches etc expressing no safe distance whatsoever is ridiculous to say the least however the league will only be alerted if the game tomorrow v Livingston is cancelled.This whole charade is totally bizarre and must be challenged in the Law Courts.Interesting to listen today to the Hibs Manager expressing his disgust at the SPFL verdict.

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1 minute ago, Mid Calder Saint said:

So after time to reflect clubs can contravene the Covid Protocol but SPFL will only intervene if it results in the cancellation of the relevant fixture.The picture today of the entire Dundee Utd squad of players coaches etc expressing no safe distance whatsoever is ridiculous to say the least however the league will only be alerted if the game tomorrow v Livingston is cancelled.This whole charade is totally bizarre and must be challenged in the Law Courts.Interesting to listen today to the Hibs Manager expressing his disgust at the SPFL verdict.

Under what grounds?

Citing one person, the Hibs manager who "get's it" on here on a regular basis, means next to nothing.

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2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

What else could have caused the game to be cancelled? :blink:

It's nothing to do with "what". Are you so simple you can't read? It's about "HOW" the players caught the virus.  No one can say for certain the flaunting of the rules caused the outbreak so the SPFL, given they punished us and killie because we couldn't fulfil our commitment, have inflicted the punishment on an assumption. Not a fact.

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4 hours ago, faraway saint said:

It's not, it's for a club blatantly ignoring the SPFL rules and, seemingly, club rules.

Stunning that no one was strong enough to challenge the actions that have led us to this point. 

The fine may be but the 3-0 defeats are because the club couldn't field a team.

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13 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

It's nothing to do with "what". Are you so simple you can't read? It's about "HOW" the players caught the virus.  No one can say for certain the flaunting of the rules caused the outbreak so the SPFL, given they punished us and killie because we couldn't fulfil our commitment, have inflicted the punishment on an assumption. Not a fact.

Dear oh dear, the forum "know all" has spoken. 

The "facts" are detailed in the 15 page report, I know that would give you a headache but I suggest you read it before you resort to your usual abuse. :lol:

 

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17 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

The fine may be but the 3-0 defeats are because the club couldn't field a team.

What came first, the breaking of the rules or the SPFL decision?

Jeezo, you're having a nightmare. 

PS Are you in favour of people spreading a virus that kills people? 

Forget a minor issue like forfeited games, it's potentially peoples life's, I suppose that's not important to many on here. 

Edited by faraway saint
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So after time to reflect clubs can contravene the Covid Protocol but SPFL will only intervene if it results in the cancellation of the relevant fixture.The picture today of the entire Dundee Utd squad of players coaches etc expressing no safe distance whatsoever is ridiculous to say the least however the league will only be alerted if the game tomorrow v Livingston is cancelled.This whole charade is totally bizarre and must be challenged in the Law Courts.Interesting to listen today to the Hibs Manager expressing his disgust at the SPFL verdict.

Imagine the size of bedroom you’d require if they did social distancing for the team photo poster ?

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It's nothing to do with "what". Are you so simple you can't read? It's about "HOW" the players caught the virus.  No one can say for certain the flaunting of the rules caused the outbreak so the SPFL, given they punished us and killie because we couldn't fulfil our commitment, have inflicted the punishment on an assumption. Not a fact.
The cause of the outbreak is totally irrelevant. We were not punished for having cases of C19 that's almost a given. We didn't follow the protocol designed to prevent the spread once a positive case was identified. Whether the spread was directly attributed to the breach is again irrelevant. Not really sure what people can't grasp here. All member clubs signed up to follow defined protocols. Saints for reasons so far not explained decided not to and a consequence of that was we were unable to fulfill 2 fixtures. People unwilling to accept we did wrong even after the club plead guilty is just bizarre. No matter how stupid anyone thinks the rules are, we as a club agreed to abide by those rules. We didn't, the club got caught, we then admitted that at an enquiry and have been punished.
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Just now, Ayrshire Saints said:
47 minutes ago, stlucifer said:
It's nothing to do with "what". Are you so simple you can't read? It's about "HOW" the players caught the virus.  No one can say for certain the flaunting of the rules caused the outbreak so the SPFL, given they punished us and killie because we couldn't fulfil our commitment, have inflicted the punishment on an assumption. Not a fact.

The cause of the outbreak is totally irrelevant. We were not punished for having cases of C19 that's almost a given. We didn't follow the protocol designed to prevent the spread once a positive case was identified. Whether the spread was directly attributed to the breach is again irrelevant. Not really sure what people can't grasp here. All member clubs signed up to follow defined protocols. Saints for reasons so far not explained decided not to and a consequence of that was we were unable to fulfill 2 fixtures. People unwilling to accept we did wrong even after the club plead guilty is just bizarre. No matter how stupid anyone thinks the rules are, we as a club agreed to abide by those rules. We didn't, the club got caught, we then admitted that at an enquiry and have been punished.

I can understand slightly, people overlook the cause and look for some other way to deflect.

Too much talk of other teams, blah blah blah, if WE hadn't fcuked up we could sit back and enjoy but we did.

As for some sort of conspiracy theory against St MIrren, aye, like we're a target for the SPFL. 

 

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I really dont get the "its all our own fault" argument.

People breach the rules all the time, mainly because they're fecking daft and impossible to stick to.

"You are precisely 1.79 metres away from the person you are having lunch with, which is against the rules, you evil life risking bastard". FFS.

We are in some dystopian nightmare where health and safety officers, the same people who have made most of us sit through videos at work about how to avoid tripping over cables or pouring boiling water over yourself, now have all the power.

I seriously had an argument with someone at work who didnt want to go into a family centre because soft furnishings werent "covid secure". The world has gone mad.

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7 minutes ago, Hendo said:

I really dont get the "its all our own fault" argument.

People breach the rules all the time, mainly because they're fecking daft and impossible to stick to.

"You are precisely 1.79 metres away from the person you are having lunch with, which is against the rules, you evil life risking bastard". FFS.

We are in some dystopian nightmare where health and safety officers, the same people who have made most of us sit through videos at work about how to avoid tripping over cables or pouring boiling water over yourself, now have all the power.

I seriously had an argument with someone at work who didnt want to go into a family centre because soft furnishings werent "covid secure". The world has gone mad.

No they don't and they aren't. 

You know I've had issues with the constant "rule changes" as they are inconsistent and blatantly disproportionate but WE fcuked them up. 

The club have stupidly been lax in adhering to them, people CAUGHT the virus as a result.

How'd it sit if someone died? 

Edited by faraway saint
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10 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

No they don't and they aren't. 

You know I've had issues with the constant "rule changes" as they are inconsistent and blatantly disproportionate but WE fcuked them up. 

The club have stupidly been lax in adhering to them, people CAUGHT the virus as a result.

How'd it sit if someone died? 

My point is, every club is breaking them. Dundee United have broken them. Scotland broke them. Jack Ross was absolutely right in his comments.

I know covid is a threat, and you need to be careful, but it has been hijacked by lazy feckers using it as an excuse to not do any work and power mad risk averse health and safety types.

At work one of the social workers was off for three weeks with Covid. It was quite bad, she ended up in hospital, fortunately recovered and back to work this week, though we're still keeping an eye on her as shes still not 100%. Health and safetys response? Your form about this was put in too late!!! Not once did they ask how she was. Power junkies have taken over and it is depressing.

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4 minutes ago, Hendo said:

My point is, every club is breaking them. Dundee United have broken them. Scotland broke them. Jack Ross was absolutely right in his comments.

I know covid is a threat, and you need to be careful, but it has been hijacked by lazy feckers using it as an excuse to not do any work and power mad risk averse health and safety types.

At work one of the social workers was off for three weeks with Covid. It was quite bad, she ended up in hospital, fortunately recovered and back to work this week, though we're still keeping an eye on her as shes still not 100%. Health and safetys response? Your form about this was put in too late!!! Not once did they ask how she was. Power junkies have taken over and it is depressing.

You're being driven by another issue, and there's nothing wrong with that.

I agree it's being hijacked, there's always people who take advantage. 

The wider issue is critical, but we FAILED to come close to treating that with any real respect.

The 15 page report is damning, smacks of amateurs and a club with no leadership. 

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No they don't and they aren't. 
You know I've had issues with the constant "rule changes" as they are inconsistent and blatantly disproportionate but WE fcuked them up. 
The club have stupidly been lax in adhering to them, people CAUGHT the virus as a result.
How'd it sit if someone died? 


POSSIBLY caught the virus as a result. They caught the virus but nobody can definitely say where or when. That is what a lot of people are commenting about. The decision was made on some assumptions, not just facts.

The cause of the outbreak is totally irrelevant. We were not punished for having cases of C19 that's almost a given. We didn't follow the protocol designed to prevent the spread once a positive case was identified. Whether the spread was directly attributed to the breach is again irrelevant. Not really sure what people can't grasp here. All member clubs signed up to follow defined protocols. Saints for reasons so far not explained decided not to and a consequence of that was we were unable to fulfill 2 fixtures. People unwilling to accept we did wrong even after the club plead guilty is just bizarre. No matter how stupid anyone thinks the rules are, we as a club agreed to abide by those rules. We didn't, the club got caught, we then admitted that at an enquiry and have been punished.


There is no proof of that.

Nobody is denying we broke the guidelines.

If the "crime" is breaking the guidelines and not postponing games then DU should be punished whether or not they play (if that picture is real). What if Livi win 4-0, will that be changed to 3-0? How would that be any sort of punishment?

If the "crime" is postponing a game after breaking the guidelines then clubs will just get a team on the pitch any way they can (which, in an extreme example, could result in an injured player playing and getting permanently crocked). I predict that is what will happen from now on as clubs will not want to chance an investigation.

We broke the rules and deserve to be punished but I really don't think that this has been thought through properly. A precedent has now been set, let's see how it plays out for the rest of the season and whether they stick to it regardless of who it is.
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With the punishment laid down to us and Killie,  the anonymous independent panel have now set the bar with regards to the punishment that must be applied to every club . Dundee Utd today, who tomorrow or Monday? I get the feeling they will soon regret the forfeiture route.

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