pod Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Desperately Seeking Susans said: https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/interview/st-mirren-ready-to-fight-for-a-better-outcome-says-jim-goodwin-after-fines-and-forfeits/ He's not alone ;Kilmarnock manager Alex Dyer says SPFL Covid punishments don't 'make sense' - Not The Old Firm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 Listen we are going round in circles The majority of fans and even pundits think we have been harshly dealt with The ones who don't are St Mirren fans who want heads on a stake Their dislike of Scott and Fitzpatrick and a golden chance to stick the boot in It's getting tedious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 The SPFLs decision to draw the line at games postponed that can be linked to breeches (sic) of rules seems fair to me, harsh but fair. MmmmmmBop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted December 8, 2020 Report Share Posted December 8, 2020 1 hour ago, windae cleaner said: Listen we are going round in circles The majority of fans and even pundits think we have been harshly dealt with The ones who don't are St Mirren fans who want heads on a stake Their dislike of Scott and Fitzpatrick and a golden chance to stick the boot in It's getting tedious Its not that simple. I, for one, think we've been harshly treated. We deserved to be punished for breaking the rules, but the punishment was too severe. And because we broke those rules in the way we did, even after the goalkeeper fiasco, heads SHOULD roll. (Could be players, coaching OR admin staff) I think TF is a really nice guy - Saints through and through. But is he a good CEO? Events at SMFC would appear to suggest not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munoz Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 https://www.stmirren.com/club-news/3850-st-mirren-will-appeal-spfl-tribunal-decision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 29 minutes ago, munoz said: https://www.stmirren.com/club-news/3850-st-mirren-will-appeal-spfl-tribunal-decision Good on them, beyond doubt the correct decision to appeal. Even if we put aside the harshness of the punishment, we can still see a complete lack of consistency and fairness in dishing out said punishment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 34 minutes ago, munoz said: https://www.stmirren.com/club-news/3850-st-mirren-will-appeal-spfl-tribunal-decision At least we are doing something, might not lead to anything ,might give us back those games and a chance to lose the points fairly 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Good on them, beyond doubt the correct decision to appeal. Even if we put aside the harshness of the punishment, we can still see a complete lack of consistency and fairness in dishing out said punishment. The board obviously hasn't been listening to the future owners. FF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Hopefully the appeal will be "Robust" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Yflab said: My main concern over an appeal is additional punishments handed out to individual players who were found to be car sharing and more legal costs. I hope though for a positive outcome. Don't you worry about it, they'll use to gate money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, linwood buddie said: At least we are doing something, might not lead to anything ,might give us back those games and a chance to lose the points fairly 😂 Better than no chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munoz Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 I'm glad we are appealing. The whole thing has been a sham at worse, and very inconsistent at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Great news. I'm glad the board have more sense than some who post on here. Accepting without question the absolutely stupid punishment would have been shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russian Saint Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 My main concern over an appeal is additional punishments handed out to individual players who were found to be car sharing and more legal costs. I hope though for a positive outcome.“Positive outcome” No pun intended [emoji6] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleySaint Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Whilst I agree with the sentiment I'm not sure the cost, the potential suspension of the players concerned and the immediate imposition of the suspended fine for having the temerity to question the ruling on top of the original punishment are worth the attempt to argue that we didn't royally make an arse of it in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant Disguise Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, StanleySaint said: Whilst I agree with the sentiment I'm not sure the cost, the potential suspension of the players concerned and the immediate imposition of the suspended fine for having the temerity to question the ruling on top of the original punishment are worth the attempt to argue that we didn't royally make an arse of it in the first place. By not fighting this we allow the SPFL to continually use as their whipping boys. The cost of not fighting this is potentially huge. Having read the SPFL case we need to throw other teams under the bus. Celtic, Dundee Utd, Rangers. In our visits to other clubs we will have seen any examples of failures of clubs to follow “The Protocols”. There is no proof that the failure of so called protocols resulted in players catching Covid. The medical and government approach is to speculate where you catch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said: By not fighting this we allow the SPFL to continually use as their whipping boys. The cost of not fighting this is potentially huge. Having read the SPFL case we need to throw other teams under the bus. Celtic, Dundee Utd, Rangers. In our visits to other clubs we will have seen any examples of failures of clubs to follow “The Protocols”. There is no proof that the failure of so called protocols resulted in players catching Covid. The medical and government approach is to speculate where you catch it. JG says in B and W mag interview that a player caught it from his mother, who works as a carer. I await with interest the line of defence used in the appeal process and want a victory. However the Robust Defence stance taken in the case so far leaves me less than confident Good to see at least we are not going at this alone as Kilmarnock are to appeal also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original 59er Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Whilst I have accepted that we have been at fault in the way that we handled the protocols that theoretically were set out, I also think that we have been treated exceedingly harshly. Jack Ross's interview was a fairly good external view of the position and if I was remotely involved with either Killie or Saints on this issue, I would say appeal and make sure you have good legal advice to back up your arguments. I don't fear additional retribution, that would be vindictive in the extreme, but the SPFL make up their rules as they go along and they wouldn't have done this to the Glasgow twins, Aberdeen or Hibs, so gone on guys, give it your best legal challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, alanb said: JG says in B and W mag interview that a player caught it from his mother, who works as a carer. I await with interest the line of defence used in the appeal process and want a victory. However the Robust Defence stance taken in the case so far leaves me less than confident Good to see at least we are not going at this alone as Kilmarnock are to appeal also Surely they wouldn't appeal unless they had taken legal advice, but I guess the legal eagles on here will now better. Edited December 9, 2020 by pod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, pod said: Surely they wouldn't appeal unless they had taken legal advice, but I guess the legal eagles on here will now better. Maybe the players mammy is going to own up and plead guilty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Surely they wouldn't appeal unless they had taken legal advice, but I guess the legal eagles on here will now better. I would assume that the legal advice would include the facts that there is no way of knowing if the rule breaking contributed to the spread, no way of applying a probability to it and therefore no way of knowing whether the postponements were in any way related to the rule breaking. Assumptions are not proof and "likelihoods" need to be demonstrated, not just guessed at.The fine is justified (for the rule breaking), the forfeits are not.Also, the 3-0 awards punish other teams that have not been accused of anything.This legal stuff is piss easy. [emoji38] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 I'd be happier about us paying the £40k fine now and having a suspended penalty of points deduction if we breach protocol. Killie would have missed more games had it not been for the timing of the international break and league cup games... they also had to lockdown but only missed 1 league game. The rules are changing as the season goes on. The Hibs game went ahead because at that point there was no ruling that you had to have at least 1 fit goalie among 13 fit players. A few weeks after forcing us to play Hibs with a keeper who only just signed in time to appear on the team sheet! Since we were investigated DUFC and Celtic have broken protocol for team photos and the SFA have been pulled up by UEFA over Scotland U21 breaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Derek McInnes has also spoken out: Aberdeen manager Derek McInnes has called for a Covid-19 compliance officer to be appointed to help ensure clubs are meeting safety protocols in Scottish football. Kilmarnock and St Mirren were both punished last week for their games being postponed due to Covid-19 cases within the playing staff. Both clubs were informed the postponed matches – two for Saints and one for Killie – would be forfeited as 3-0 defeats and were fined £40,000 each, suspended until June 30. The punishment came after St Mirren and Kilmarnock admitted they had breached social distancing rules on buses and meals while some Saints players had shared cars to and from training. McInnes believes forfeits are the last outcome any club in Scotland wants and has called for clubs to be given more support to ensure they are complying with the measures put in place. He said: “I feel any team that has to forfeit a game is the last scenario we want and it is harsh on Kilmarnock and St Mirren. I don’t know why they have come to that conclusion. “I understand it’s a fine balancing act for the authorities and clubs need to be accountable, but I think this is a case of them wanting to show a firm hand. “But I do think we’re learning all the time. We need somebody, some sort of compliance authority to drop in on training grounds without any announcement.” McInnes has also raised his fears some social distancing measures at clubs do not meet the criteria laid out and believes more assistance is needed from the authorities to ensure clubs are fulfilling their obligations. He said: “The Dundee United thing is a separate issue. I’m pretty sure they will come to regret the decision to have a team photo and I was surprised when I saw it. “We’re all under pressure to make sure our players are looked after, but I have to say we have been to a couple of away grounds where we’ve felt we have been crammed in to a space where we have felt we are not socially distanced. “We have been put more at risk and we can clearly do better, but the clubs have done brilliantly. I have to say that, when you think of the financial commitment we’ve had to make, without any help, to put these measures in place, has been massive. “Clubs are doing a lot right, but clearly we’re not as right as we need to be.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branniganm Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 On 12/6/2020 at 9:13 PM, Hendo said: Disagree. I think the whole thing is a mass of contradictions, hypocrisy and confusion. There are absolutely grounds to contest this. Ourselves and Killie have been treated very harshly. The protocols may be bonkers but SMFC signed up to them ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 9, 2020 Report Share Posted December 9, 2020 Can't wait to see the outcome of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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