The capacity debacle

[HSS]

8 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Feck that, I'm out.

Conga rules. 

Are you in,out,in,out?

[FTOF]

On 7/26/2021 at 8:09 PM, FTOF said:

Interesting to see the uncertainty conveyed by Dundee's arrangement for Saturday. Any ballot plans "oot the windae" as it's too hard to organise.

 

Dundee's efforts at selling tickets going well I see.

Quote

I’ll be 1 unhappy man if I don’t get into this game 😡 shat on time and again by the club regarding tickets. I work during office opening hours and have phoned half a dozen times already with no answer. f**king no happy 

Quote

There was a queue of about 20 after I got my tickets, they said there was only row A left in the Shankly and the Cox was full. They were asking folk to group up with other folk in the queue as 1 single ticket takes up 5 seats.

Quote

We’ve managed to make a complete arse of this whole thing to the surprise of nobody. I’m going to be pretty pissed off if I miss out on this game, despite the increased capacity and buying a ticket ridiculously early.

 

[shull]

1000 permitted at Beith.

 

[Ayrshire Saints]

Looks like 1039 again for Hearts, ballot process announced

[Hendo]

6 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Looks like 1039 again for Hearts, ballot process announced

If its 1039 again, how about direct action? We boycott the ballot, then all season ticket holders turn up and chant "you can stick your social distancing up your arse".

[Scott-Leeds]

If its 1039 again, how about direct action? We boycott the ballot, then all season ticket holders turn up and chant "you can stick your social distancing up your arse".

If you do it 2 metres apart? A lot of people will be on Underwood Rd or Well St [emoji23]

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, Scott-Leeds said:

If you do it 2 metres apart? A lot of people will be on Underwood Rd or Well St

1 metre now. The club heralded the fact they were allowed to more than double the attendance. Fantastic. No? Or should that be Fantastic? NO!

[Danny]

If its 1039 agaisn, how about directusaction? We bodinerenthe barllot,fferensthen all season ticket hoieders turn up and chant "you can stick your social distancing up your arse".

FFS Ian Never had you down as a tiny brained hillbilly This is about public health Your comment aligns with the Tory and to a lesser extent SNP view that we should put the economy I.E. profit before people Let the bodies pile up rather than reduce share dividends Every ground is different Every workplace needs a unique safety assesment There will be different conclusions We are unlucky our ground Ius deemed less safe than others  You carry on advocating the Tory line of who cares who dies , even if you cant see who your'e actually and I suspect inadvertently siding with (Unless of course you're being ironic and I missed it

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, Danny said:

FFS Ian Never had you down as a tiny brained hillbilly This is about public health Your comment aligns with the Tory and to a lesser extent SNP view that we should put the economy I.E. profit before people Let the bodies pile up rather than reduce share dividends Every ground is different Every workplace needs a unique safety assesment There will be different conclusions We are unlucky our ground Ius deemed less safe than others  You carry on advocating the Tory line of who cares who dies , even if you cant see who your'e actually and I suspect inadvertently siding with (Unless of course you're being ironic and I missed it
 

I'm not going to spark a debate on this as I'm sick of doing so but in terms of public health and bodies piling up, the vaccines have well and truly put paid to that. There is no longer an immediate risk to the public at large and we should well and truly now be getting back to living our lives with as few restrictions as possible given that the overwhelming majority of people in the country are vaccinated.

5 people have died in Renfrewshire relating to covid in the last 30 days. Five. The risk to the public is now minimal and we have amazing vaccines which in 95% of cases reduce the effects of covid to a mild flu, coupled with a fantastic vaccine uptake by the public to thank for that. 

There is absolutely no reason to continue with restrictions at the levels we have been for the last year and a half. 

[Cookie Monster]

I'm not going to spark a debate on this as I'm sick of doing so but in terms of public health and bodies piling up, the vaccines have well and truly put paid to that. There is no longer an immediate risk to the public at large and we should well and truly now be getting back to living our lives with as few restrictions as possible given that the overwhelming majority of people in the country are vaccinated.
5 people have died in Renfrewshire relating to covid in the last 30 days. Five. The risk to the public is now minimal and we have amazing vaccines which in 95% of cases reduce the effects of covid to a mild flu, coupled with a fantastic vaccine uptake by the public to thank for that. 
There is absolutely no reason to continue with restrictions at the levels we have been for the last year and a half. 

You are correct in a number of your points.

3rd July there was 939 in renfrewshire that were positive, 10th July there was 663, 17th July there was 559, 24th July there was 302, latest figures 26th July is 271.

We've got 10 days of restrictions at this level to go in Scotland. In those 10 days the folk that have just received their second vaccination will be at the best resistance level.

Hopefully the positive cases will continue dropping at the rate I posted above because when schools go back, social distancing at pubs ends, nightclubs opening, folk shouting at football grounds etc cases will rise again. So the lower we get it beforehand that equates to hopefully in less getting the virus when these restrictions are lifted.


In the last sentence I wrote 'WE', that refers to the folk that can and have been vaccinated, the folk that didn't go to house parties, the folk that can and do wear a face covering to try and protect other folk.

[Scott-Leeds]

1 metre now. The club heralded the fact they were allowed to more than double the attendance. Fantastic. No? Or should that be Fantastic? NO!

As you are aware, the season hasn’t started yet down here, but full capacity is allowed when it does.

Really hope to see these restrictions lifted if appropriate obviously asap.

Saints will be having a good season, we don’t want to miss it!

[faraway saint]

8 hours ago, Danny said:

FFS Ian Never had you down as a tiny brained hillbilly This is about public health Your comment aligns with the Tory and to a lesser extent SNP view that we should put the economy I.E. profit before people Let the bodies pile up rather than reduce share dividends Every ground is different Every workplace needs a unique safety assesment There will be different conclusions We are unlucky our ground Ius deemed less safe than others  You carry on advocating the Tory line of who cares who dies , even if you cant see who your'e actually and I suspect inadvertently siding with (Unless of course you're being ironic and I missed it
 

Totally inappropriate and out of context to the current situation. 

[Hendo]

9 hours ago, Danny said:

FFS Ian Never had you down as a tiny brained hillbilly This is about public health Your comment aligns with the Tory and to a lesser extent SNP view that we should put the economy I.E. profit before people Let the bodies pile up rather than reduce share dividends Every ground is different Every workplace needs a unique safety assesment There will be different conclusions We are unlucky our ground Ius deemed less safe than others  You carry on advocating the Tory line of who cares who dies , even if you cant see who your'e actually and I suspect inadvertently siding with (Unless of course you're being ironic and I missed it
 

I dont quite know where to start with this.

Advocating for increased crowds at a football ground in Paisley, at similar levels as other football grounds in Motherwell and Dundee, is not in any way arguing for "letting the bodies pile high".

The arguments for removing restrictions are put perfectly by dj chapsticks. As for your point about different workplaces needing different assessments, are you really claiming our ground is only as safe as Darvels?

Unfortunately, you have fallen into the trap many of the left have - start insulting those with a different viewpoint, while not noticing the potential stripping back of rights which governments are using this crisis to do.

Vaccine passports, increased government powers meaning they dont need to meet their legal responsibilities in particular towards vulnerable people, aye its all fine because we can now trust these people and if we dont covid will get us? The biggest threat to us now isnt from covid.

[Doakes]

Got in touch with the Provost Cameron on Twitter. She asked Renfrewshire council the question regarding capacity. Here was the response she sent:

 

Hi, I received this response from council.  Not sure it is much more help tbh....looks like they’re just going along with govt guidelines.
 

I can confirm that Renfrewshire Council has been in constant dialogue with St Mirren FC and partners as part of the Stadium Advisory Group (SAG) – this group is Chaired by Alex McCalman (Assistant Building Standards Manager) and is also attended by Robert Marshall (Environmental Health – Business Regulation Manager).
 
St Mirren’s first spectator match was on the 13 July 2021, they were observing 2m social distancing and had an occupant capacity of 500 persons. Alex McCalman attended the match and observed their access/egress and general spectator arrangements which were satisfactory. Only three stands were in use (North, West and South) with the Main Stand declared as the Red zone for the team and press. No away fans were present.
 
They have an occupant capacity of 1039 for 1m social distancing and have currently moved to this model as referred to by your constituent. They will be using the turnstiles for future matches and have similar access and egress arrangements to maintain social distancing. Again, the Main Stand will not be in use and spectators will be in the North, West and South stands.
 
Toilets are open but there are no sales of refreshments and the catering stands remain closed, as does the hospitality suite and the fan bar which are both in the Main Stand.
 
As a far as Renfrewshire Council is aware, under current restrictions, the St Mirren safety team do not intend to allow any more than 1039 spectators at any one time and will not be making an application to increase the occupant capacity to greater than 2000 persons.
 
Like many others, we await the announcement from the First Minister next week with regards to further easing of restrictions from the indicative date of 9 August 2021 and this will likely lead to further discussions and a meeting of the SAG to discuss future capacities.

[bazil85]

13 hours ago, Hendo said:

If its 1039 again, how about direct action? We boycott the ballot, then all season ticket holders turn up and chant "you can stick your social distancing up your arse".

Seems a massive overreaction for something that all being okay, won't an issue in a few weeks time. It isn't ideal at all but there's many jumping to blame the club & only the club in this. 

Also, is that the best way to start a new chairman relationship?

[HSS]

3 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Seems a massive overreaction for something that all being okay, won't an issue in a few weeks time. It isn't ideal at all but there's many jumping to blame the club & only the club in this. 

Also, is that the best way to start a new chairman relationship?

It is the Clubs fault

If we had relocated to East Kilbride,as was spoken about in the 70’s,we’d be allowed many more Fans in

What we’re the Club thinking about?Absolutely no forward thinking from them

Boo ☹️

 

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, HSS said:

It is the Clubs fault

If we had relocated to East Kilbride,as was spoken about in the 70’s,we’d be allowed many more Fans in

What we’re the Club thinking about?Absolutely no forward thinking from them

Boo ☹️

 

The club have said they've done "all" they can on this. 

[BuddieinEK]

The club have said they've done "all" they can on this. 

But they haven't.

No database of season ticket holders meant an inability to organise people to sit in bubbles, allowing up to 2,000 to attend as per Government guidelines.

Almost £20,000 per match squandered.

Remember that super duper new system that we pay through the nose for and you fully supported?

Where is it now when it could have paid for itself?

[bazil85]

13 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

But they haven't.

No database of season ticket holders meant an inability to organise people to sit in bubbles, allowing up to 2,000 to attend as per Government guidelines.

Almost £20,000 per match squandered.

Remember that super duper new system that we pay through the nose for and you fully supported?

Where is it now when it could have paid for itself?

Situation is less than ideal but I think it needs to be taken in context. One more game impacted and we should have all of this behind us. 

I get people's frustration but I also think many are using it as an excuse to lash out, like you're doing on the new system we helped fund, which I don't see any evidence it's been the problem. Migration of season ticket holders to a new system (my understanding is this system is separate from the one we funded as it's linked to a new partnership) and the human resource impacts seems far more likely. 

As for "where is it now" to my knowledge it's still being used, have you heard otherwise? 

Edited July 30, 2021 by bazil85

[BuddieinEK]

Situation is less than ideal but I think it needs to be taken in context. One more game impacted and we should have all of this behind us. 
I get people's frustration but I also think many are using it as an excuse to lash out, like you're doing on the new system we helped fund, which I don't see any evidence it's been the problem. Migration of season ticket holders to a new system (my understanding is this system is separate from the one we funded as it's linked to a new partnership) and the human resource impacts seems far more likely. 
As for "where is it now" to my knowledge it's still being used, have you heard otherwise? 

Deflection.

Bottom line... The club appears NOT to have done "all" it can.

Excuse to lash out?

Hardly. I think many people are showing the patience of a Saint!

[Doakes]

17 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

But they haven't.

No database of season ticket holders meant an inability to organise people to sit in bubbles, allowing up to 2,000 to attend as per Government guidelines.

Almost £20,000 per match squandered.

Remember that super duper new system that we pay through the nose for and you fully supported?

Where is it now when it could have paid for itself?

Noticed that the club are now using Google forms for fans to "opt in" to the ballot. They could easily add a section where supporters add the email addresses of others they are happy to sit with. Once the email addresses match the data could be easily filtered to allow for bubbles without much work. I've suggested this to the SLO.

[bazil85]

6 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Deflection.

Bottom line... The club appears NOT to have done "all" it can.

Excuse to lash out?

Hardly. I think many people are showing the patience of a Saint!

I personally choose to believe the club have done all they can. Your response was quite varied so I’ve tried to answer it the best I can, not sure why you’d think that was ‘defection’ 

https://www.smisa.net/news-archive/278-very-connect-an-introduction

If it isn’t lashing out, can you explain why you brought up the very connect system? Not seeing anywhere it would be linked to season ticket selling.
 

Surely you accept using the same members storage system for retaining season ticket sales information would pose a significant data security risk? 

[FTOF]

3 hours ago, Doakes said:

Got in touch with the Provost Cameron on Twitter. She asked Renfrewshire council the question regarding capacity. Here was the response she sent:

 

Hi, I received this response from council.  Not sure it is much more help tbh....looks like they’re just going along with govt guidelines.
 

I can confirm that Renfrewshire Council has been in constant dialogue with St Mirren FC and partners as part of the Stadium Advisory Group (SAG) – this group is Chaired by Alex McCalman (Assistant Building Standards Manager) and is also attended by Robert Marshall (Environmental Health – Business Regulation Manager).
 
St Mirren’s first spectator match was on the 13 July 2021, they were observing 2m social distancing and had an occupant capacity of 500 persons. Alex McCalman attended the match and observed their access/egress and general spectator arrangements which were satisfactory. Only three stands were in use (North, West and South) with the Main Stand declared as the Red zone for the team and press. No away fans were present.
 
They have an occupant capacity of 1039 for 1m social distancing and have currently moved to this model as referred to by your constituent. They will be using the turnstiles for future matches and have similar access and egress arrangements to maintain social distancing. Again, the Main Stand will not be in use and spectators will be in the North, West and South stands.
 
Toilets are open but there are no sales of refreshments and the catering stands remain closed, as does the hospitality suite and the fan bar which are both in the Main Stand.
 
As a far as Renfrewshire Council is aware, under current restrictions, the St Mirren safety team do not intend to allow any more than 1039 spectators at any one time and will not be making an application to increase the occupant capacity to greater than 2000 persons.
 
Like many others, we await the announcement from the First Minister next week with regards to further easing of restrictions from the indicative date of 9 August 2021 and this will likely lead to further discussions and a meeting of the SAG to discuss future capacities.

That's, word for word. the reply that I received when my local councillor sought information on the matter.

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, FTOF said:

That's, word for word. the reply that I received when my local councillor sought information on the matter.

I thought it sounded familiar. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

12 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

I'm not going to spark a debate on this as I'm sick of doing so but in terms of public health and bodies piling up, the vaccines have well and truly put paid to that. There is no longer an immediate risk to the public at large and we should well and truly now be getting back to living our lives with as few restrictions as possible given that the overwhelming majority of people in the country are vaccinated.

5 people have died in Renfrewshire relating to covid in the last 30 days. Five. The risk to the public is now minimal and we have amazing vaccines which in 95% of cases reduce the effects of covid to a mild flu, coupled with a fantastic vaccine uptake by the public to thank for that. 

There is absolutely no reason to continue with restrictions at the levels we have been for the last year and a half. 

 

5 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Totally inappropriate and out of context to the current situation. 

 

4 hours ago, Hendo said:

I dont quite know where to start with this.

Advocating for increased crowds at a football ground in Paisley, at similar levels as other football grounds in Motherwell and Dundee, is not in any way arguing for "letting the bodies pile high".

The arguments for removing restrictions are put perfectly by dj chapsticks. As for your point about different workplaces needing different assessments, are you really claiming our ground is only as safe as Darvels?

Unfortunately, you have fallen into the trap many of the left have - start insulting those with a different viewpoint, while not noticing the potential stripping back of rights which governments are using this crisis to do.

Vaccine passports, increased government powers meaning they dont need to meet their legal responsibilities in particular towards vulnerable people, aye its all fine because we can now trust these people and if we dont covid will get us? The biggest threat to us now isnt from covid.

Thank you all for providing responses that were considerably more polite than the one I was intending to make.
Special kudos to Hendo who was the recipient of the utterly ridiculous accusation.