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The capacity debacle


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12 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

I'm not going to spark a debate on this as I'm sick of doing so but in terms of public health and bodies piling up, the vaccines have well and truly put paid to that. There is no longer an immediate risk to the public at large and we should well and truly now be getting back to living our lives with as few restrictions as possible given that the overwhelming majority of people in the country are vaccinated.

5 people have died in Renfrewshire relating to covid in the last 30 days. Five. The risk to the public is now minimal and we have amazing vaccines which in 95% of cases reduce the effects of covid to a mild flu, coupled with a fantastic vaccine uptake by the public to thank for that. 

There is absolutely no reason to continue with restrictions at the levels we have been for the last year and a half. 

I must have missed your appointment to the SAGE group, apologies.

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1 minute ago, djchapsticks said:

I wasn't aware you had to be part of SAGE to read and understand daily published figures, apologies.

Apology accepted ........ isn't it nice when someone realises there wrong and acts accordingly, well done you.

It does seem to me that many on this site fancy themselves as 'knowledgeable' re Covid and infection rates etc and perhaps they are to certain degrees, but much in the same manner as we fans tend to 'referee' our teams game, we are not the referee and as far as I am aware no one on this site sites on any advisory panels such as SAGE, but hey I could be wrong.

Oh! and if I am, I too shall apologise.

Have a good one.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, jaybee said:

Apology accepted ........ isn't it nice when someone realises there wrong and acts accordingly, well done you.

It does seem to me that many on this site fancy themselves as 'knowledgeable' re Covid and infection rates etc and perhaps they are to certain degrees, but much in the same manner as we fans tend to 'referee' our teams game, we are not the referee and as far as I am aware no one on this site sites on any advisory panels such as SAGE, but hey I could be wrong.

Oh! and if I am, I too shall apologise.

Have a good one.

The covid and infection rates are published on a daily basis for all and sundry to see, as are the infection impacts and breaks in death led by the vaccination programme.

Here's a small example of this that backs up exactly what I said in my initial post between a vaccinated country and a largely unvaccinated one:

E7SJAtfX0AUirVh.thumb.jpg.7cff4da50e4ab9fe82f39c8e3de8fc7e.jpg

Please do feel free to point out any part of my initial post that was factually incorrect.

Edited by djchapsticks
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1 hour ago, djchapsticks said:

The covid and infection rates are published on a daily basis for all and sundry to see, as are the infection impacts and breaks in death led by the vaccination programme.

Here's a small example of this that backs up exactly what I said in my initial post between a vaccinated country and a largely unvaccinated one:

E7SJAtfX0AUirVh.thumb.jpg.7cff4da50e4ab9fe82f39c8e3de8fc7e.jpg

Please do feel free to point out any part of my initial post that was factually incorrect.

I appreciate the sensible manner in which you justify your interpretation of the data and have no arguments as to its veracity. My point, and it isn't to be pedantic regarding it, is that those who are part of SAGE and similar groups without a doubt are firstly, generally better informed as to the 'big' picture and secondly more appropriately qualified as to be able to utilise such information in the UK context.

I honestly believe that people have died as a result of listening to advice from sources that think (at the time perhaps genuinely) that they have a knowledge that they simply do not.  I personally have lost family and friends to Covid so  perhaps I do have an axe to grind.

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I think most people will still be wary of Covid 19 even attending a game with 1039 supporters. If not they should be. 2 vaccines still does not confer full immunity to everyone but thankfully has made a difference to morbidity and mortality. However as a father of an otherwise healthy 27 year old daughter who contracted Covid recently, despite 2 vaccines and 3 weeks later is still not physically back to her previous level of fitness, I'm not upset by the caution being  shown.  The point has been made that the longer we give the rest of the younger population to take the vaccination the better before opening up fully.

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I see some suggestions that the club should be grouping bubbles together to maximise attendance. 
 

I’m not sure how easy people think it is to move away from a standardised 1m distancing that has been modelled around the stadium to then put in groups of 2-6.  The moment you put in an extra person, it impacts the bordering seats on the 1m boundary.  
 

I get people’s frustration but it could do with a bit of reality. 

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9 minutes ago, Maboza said:

I see some suggestions that the club should be grouping bubbles together to maximise attendance. 
 

I’m not sure how easy people think it is to move away from a standardised 1m distancing that has been modelled around the stadium to then put in groups of 2-6.  The moment you put in an extra person, it impacts the bordering seats on the 1m boundary.  
 

I get people’s frustration but it could do with a bit of reality. 

Agreed, this would be extremely challenging. Especially trying to manoeuvre it around the unrelated SMISA database on the Very Connect system which was suggested. 
 

I don’t see how they could be reconciled.   

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Agreed, this would be extremely challenging. Especially trying to manoeuvre it around the unrelated SMISA database on the Very Connect system which was suggested. 
 
I don’t see how they could be reconciled.   
Twisting it yet again.

It was alluded to that if the very connect system cannot actually connect than either way it is not fit for purpose or not being used correctly.

In either case, it doesn't seem to be the all singing all dancing wonder system that was promised to justify the expenditure.

Let me give you an example.

My friend and his Son usually sit together. Connected season tickets for years.

This year, the "system" cannot seem to connect their tickets.

They had to sit apart... That family bubble would have increased capacity if sat together with NO increased risk. Shouldn't have been hard to organise. Turned out impossible and they were forced to sit apart.

I have heard first hand of other similar experiences.

However... I know you will defend it so do it in your mind. I'm really not interested in your reply.
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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, RussellV1 said:

Again, a lot of questions need to be answered in the statement.

Why can't the main stand be cleaned down the day before to allow more fans in on matchdays? Even if it is for a few hundred extra folk? We used to get folk in a couple of times a season to do this and I'm sure there would be 3 or 4 volunteers who could spare an hour to do this socially distanced on the Friday and again on the Sunday. Even the task of doing this is overkill given that covid is an airborne disease and the chances of it contact spreading on a surface is proven to be essentially zero....if it was an issue, they'd be cleaning down bus and train seats every time a passenger gets on or off so that reason doesn't hold water at all (surface contact is really something that hasn't been brought into consideration for August 9th reopening and with good reason). Even being uber-cautious though, that would surely satisfy all H&S and Public Health requirements regardless of how stringent they are and would be a good bit of PR for the club to show our fans they are doing everything in their power to get as many of us through the door as they can.

Why is there a row being left empty but this is something that's evidently not being done at other grounds where there is 40% or 50% capacity allowed this weekend? Regardless of their vague explanation of seat layout, this isn't actually address in the statement... pulling in 50% capacity with every second row freed up is not possible unless every other row has full seating and there's no way do grounds like fir Park have >1m between rows.

What are the long-standing infrastructure issues within the stadium and why are these only being dealt with, with <1 week until the first game? If they were long standing and know about, wouldn't someone at the club not have the foresight to go 'f**k, this might be a problem when the fans are back'.

2,800 season tickets have been sold. Well down on last year at this point and honestly, who can f**king blame anyone who doesn't want to buy one at this point? You can argue that we are victims of circumstance and we are in some of the issues over this pre-season but on the surface of it, we've done pitifully little to actually fix issues we've seen well in advance or be proactive.

Really quite pissed off at how little the people running the club are actually doing here to resolve this. It feels like the absolute bare minimum effort and a mewling 'we're trying our best, honest' statement with no actual plan other than 'leave it in the lap of the government until 9th August' most definitely doesn't cut it.

Edited by djchapsticks
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Again, a lot of questions need to be answered in the statement.
Why can't the main stand be cleaned down the day before to allow more fans in on matchdays? Even if it is for a few hundred extra folk? We used to get folk in a couple of times a season to do this and I'm sure there would be 3 or 4 volunteers who could spare an hour to do this socially distanced on the Friday and again on the Sunday. Even the task of doing this is overkill given that covid is an airborne disease and the chances of it contact spreading on a surface is proven to be essentially zero....if it was an issue, they'd be cleaning down bus and train seats every time a passenger gets on or off so that reason doesn't hold water at all (surface contact is really something that hasn't been brought into consideration for August 9th reopening and with good reason). Even being uber-cautious though, that would surely satisfy all H&S and Public Health requirements regardless of how stringent they are and would be a good bit of PR for the club to show our fans they are doing everything in their power to get as many of us through the door as they can.
Why is there a row being left empty but this is something that's evidently not being done at other grounds where there is 40% or 50% capacity allowed this weekend? Regardless of their vague explanation of seat layout, this isn't actually address in the statement... pulling in 50% capacity with every second row freed up is not possible unless every other row has full seating and there's no way do grounds like fir Park have >1m between rows.
What are the long-standing infrastructure issues within the stadium and why are these only being dealt with, with 2,800 season tickets have been sold. Well down on last year at this point and honestly, who can f**king blame anyone who doesn't want to buy one at this point? You can argue that we are victims of circumstance and we are in some of the issues over this pre-season but on the surface of it, we've done pitifully little to actually fix issues we've seen well in advance or be proactive.
Really quite pissed off at how little the people running the club are actually doing here to resolve this. It feels like the absolute bare minimum effort and a mewling 'we're trying our best, honest' statement with no actual plan other than 'leave it in the lap of the government until 9th August' most definitely doesn't cut it.
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31 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Again, a lot of questions need to be answered in the statement.

Why can't the main stand be cleaned down the day before to allow more fans in on matchdays? Even if it is for a few hundred extra folk? We used to get folk in a couple of times a season to do this and I'm sure there would be 3 or 4 volunteers who could spare an hour to do this socially distanced on the Friday and again on the Sunday. Even the task of doing this is overkill given that covid is an airborne disease and the chances of it contact spreading on a surface is proven to be essentially zero....if it was an issue, they'd be cleaning down bus and train seats every time a passenger gets on or off so that reason doesn't hold water at all (surface contact is really something that hasn't been brought into consideration for August 9th reopening and with good reason). Even being uber-cautious though, that would surely satisfy all H&S and Public Health requirements regardless of how stringent they are and would be a good bit of PR for the club to show our fans they are doing everything in their power to get as many of us through the door as they can.

Why is there a row being left empty but this is something that's evidently not being done at other grounds where there is 40% or 50% capacity allowed this weekend? Regardless of their vague explanation of seat layout, this isn't actually address in the statement... pulling in 50% capacity with every second row freed up is not possible unless every other row has full seating and there's no way do grounds like fir Park have >1m between rows.

What are the long-standing infrastructure issues within the stadium and why are these only being dealt with, with <1 week until the first game? If they were long standing and know about, wouldn't someone at the club not have the foresight to go 'f**k, this might be a problem when the fans are back'.

2,800 season tickets have been sold. Well down on last year at this point and honestly, who can f**king blame anyone who doesn't want to buy one at this point? You can argue that we are victims of circumstance and we are in some of the issues over this pre-season but on the surface of it, we've done pitifully little to actually fix issues we've seen well in advance or be proactive.

Really quite pissed off at how little the people running the club are actually doing here to resolve this. It feels like the absolute bare minimum effort and a mewling 'we're trying our best, honest' statement with no actual plan other than 'leave it in the lap of the government until 9th August' most definitely doesn't cut it.

If you want to stand for the Board, you have my vote.

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I tell you what, I'd be knocking every f**king door, fighting every 'no' and chasing every lead to make sure as many supporters as possible who have already shelled out hard earned money for season tickets were getting in.
I wouldn't be sitting on my hands going 'maybe on August 9th it will be better' like that piss-weak opening gambit of a statement from our new chairman. 

It really was a weak statement basically, leave us alone, we’re not being accountable for anything.

Unusual opening statement, not fan orientated at all.
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1 hour ago, Scott-Leeds said:


It really was a weak statement basically, leave us alone, we’re not being accountable for anything.

Unusual opening statement, not fan orientated at all.

It was basically a "feck you" to the fans, and indeed the manager who spoke out on the issue this week. Not good enough, perhaps some of our SMISA board reps could speak out on this issue?

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This summer our club has been a total mess in relation to dealing with the people who count most the fans. A joke to be honest. You can send out all the # messages you want but if you can’t do the basics . 

Edited by norrie82
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4 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

Twisting it yet again.

It was alluded to that if the very connect system cannot actually connect than either way it is not fit for purpose or not being used correctly.

In either case, it doesn't seem to be the all singing all dancing wonder system that was promised to justify the expenditure.

Let me give you an example.

My friend and his Son usually sit together. Connected season tickets for years.

This year, the "system" cannot seem to connect their tickets.

They had to sit apart... That family bubble would have increased capacity if sat together with NO increased risk. Shouldn't have been hard to organise. Turned out impossible and they were forced to sit apart.

I have heard first hand of other similar experiences.

However... I know you will defend it so do it in your mind. I'm really not interested in your reply.

https://www.smisa.net/news-archive/278-very-connect-an-introduction
 

None of the above is what the ‘very connect’ system was purchased for or is currently used for. I already shared the link showing you what it is used for, here it is above again. It’s a SMISA member storage system, NOT the system used for St Mirren season ticket holdings. 
 

We have partnered with ‘future ticketing’ for season tickets NOT very connect. This is what I’ve tried to explain to you. We use two completely different systems for SMISA members & season ticket holders (many companies our size will have multiple systems for multiple different usages) 

As such I fail to see how ‘very connect’ could be of any use whatsoever in this scenario? SMISA members will be season ticket & non-season tickets alike & to my knowledge, we haven’t asked or recorded if SMISA members are also season ticket holders pre or post very connect. If we did, it would be another bit of admin needing updated annually (again given we use two different systems for two different purposes)
 

You might think it would be best to have all this stuff on one system but we don’t do it that way. There will be several risks mitigated by this & also, do you know for a fact ‘very connect’ has the capabilities we would need to manage our season ticket databases in the way ‘future ticketing’ will? 
 

In a nutshell, can you explain how a system that wasn’t purchased for holding season ticket holder information but for a completely different purpose could help here? And can you also share any communication that states very connect would be used for the purposes you’re claiming? 

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The ballot system is useless. However I have put my name down because I'm fed up watching a live stream for my money that I've forked out for the last 2 seasons like a few thousand others. If I can't sit with my brothers and nephew then that's a complete nonsense, I'll wait till I see the result of the ballot to see if that's what happens. I also think the club should award the fans in some way for their support and loyalty over the last 2 seasons. In what way? That's for the club to decide but they should show their gratitude in some way.

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11 hours ago, Hendo said:

It was basically a "feck you" to the fans, and indeed the manager who spoke out on the issue this week. Not good enough, perhaps some of our SMISA board reps could speak out on this issue?

The new chairman is the SMISA representative. What chance have we got. 

The Chairman’s statement is proof of how shambolic the club is at the moment. By the looks of that statement its not going to get much better.

A training ground that is not functioning, Using the main stand that knocks out it use for paying fans. Out of interest why on game day does it become the red zone when the players used it the day(s) before

Inferring that there are infrastructure issues in the ground. Could this be the failure of the club to obtain the required safety certificate in time for the season opening. Or other issues that could be resolved by personnel

The board don’t care. They have our money. They will be mixing in the boardroom quaffing drink, mixing with other club personnel then all sitting practically next to each other. Forgot the bit of them ensuring their cronies also got to watch the games.

The ground has 4 massive access points at the corners that could be utilised for access and egress without the need to go inside the ground. As for not being able to site within 2m of someone outside is utter bullshit. I don’t see the parks getting policed and arresting old people sitting next to each other on a park bench.

 

Good to see the deflection in the statement that people are verbally abusing staff as a way of trying to create sympathy for the club. WELL deal with the individuals they called the club therefore you will have all of their details. 

Also we should not be using other clubs as a baseline of what we can do. What utter bullshit

Remember the new Chairman was on the board when all of this mess with strips, sponsors, season tickets and now ground allocation so he is as culpable for the lack of planning as the rest if the board.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

The new chairman is the SMISA representative. What chance have we got. 

The Chairman’s statement is proof of how shambolic the club is at the moment. By the looks of that statement its not going to get much better.

A training ground that is not functioning, Using the main stand that knocks out it use for paying fans. Out of interest why on game day does it become the red zone when the players used it the day(s) before

Inferring that there are infrastructure issues in the ground. Could this be the failure of the club to obtain the required safety certificate in time for the season opening. Or other issues that could be resolved by personnel

The board don’t care. They have our money. They will be mixing in the boardroom quaffing drink, mixing with other club personnel then all sitting practically next to each other. Forgot the bit of them ensuring their cronies also got to watch the games.

The ground has 4 massive access points at the corners that could be utilised for access and egress without the need to go inside the ground. As for not being able to site within 2m of someone outside is utter bullshit. I don’t see the parks getting policed and arresting old people sitting next to each other on a park bench.

 

Good to see the deflection in the statement that people are verbally abusing staff as a way of trying to create sympathy for the club. WELL deal with the individuals they called the club therefore you will have all of their details. 

Also we should not be using other clubs as a baseline of what we can do. What utter bullshit

Remember the new Chairman was on the board when all of this mess with strips, sponsors, season tickets and now ground allocation so he is as culpable for the lack of planning as the rest if the board.

 

 

It’s disappointing how for some, a few points of frustration (all temporary & mainly with mitigating circumstances)can undo all the good the BOD have done for the club over the last few years. 

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2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

It’s disappointing how for some, a few points of frustration (all temporary & mainly with mitigating circumstances)can undo all the good the BOD have done for the club over the last few years. 

It's funny how some choose to almost completely ignore the errors made by the club, not only trivialise them but  see the frustration by supporters who, year after year, have put their money into the club, as moaning. 

These sorts are exactly the reason the club continue to be unprofessional in many areas. 

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1 minute ago, faraway saint said:

It's funny how some choose to almost completely ignore the errors made by the club, not only trivialise them but  see the frustration by supporters who, year after year, have put their money into the club, as moaning. 

These sorts are exactly the reason the club continue to be unprofessional in many areas. 

I don’t ‘completely ignore’ and I do see why it’s frustrating & disappointing. It’s hardly end of days though & everything is wrong at the club as some people’s posts would lead you to believe. 
 

I also think it’s extremely unfair for such attacks on a new board structure. I have milk in the fridge that’s been in place longer. 
 

Clubs & companies our size will always be work in progress, looking to improve. We aren’t out of step with other clubs in the country, in fact I would say we’re one of the best run in Scotland, all things considered. 

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1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

I don’t ‘completely ignore’ and I do see why it’s frustrating & disappointing. It’s hardly end of days though & everything is wrong at the club as some people’s posts would lead you to believe. 
 

I also think it’s extremely unfair for such attacks on a new board structure. I have milk in the fridge that’s been in place longer. 
 

Clubs & companies our size will always be work in progress, looking to improve. We aren’t out of step with other clubs in the country, in fact I would say we’re one of the best run in Scotland, all things considered. 

I said "ALMOST" completely ignore and I don't think anyone is saying the club/board hasn't had considerable success over the last few years. 

The recent issues are frustrating right enough, so much so it's costing the club money in lost season ticket sales.

THIS is exactly the time the club should be on top of these issues after the last season when many might have been teetering on buying a season ticket. 

Time you cleaned out your fridge, must be stinking. 

 

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