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St mirren v Hearts


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1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:

People certainly do not "need to remember"!

We have ambitions of finishing top six. That means finishing above newly promoted teams like Hearts irrespective of their budget.

Two games into the league campaign & people are panning him, even to the extent he should be sacked.
 

This after losing his first competitive game in five to Hearts. They’re one of Scotland big five, whether you think people need to remember that or not. 

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Two games into the league campaign & people are panning him, even to the extent he should be sacked.
 
This after losing his first competitive game in five to Hearts. They’re one of Scotland big five, whether you think people need to remember that or not. 
Geez.... YOU said people "need to remember"!.

Nobody needs to remember. Nobody!

You choose to. Good on you.

You are now causing a disagreement over me agreeing with you.

You'd cause a fight in an empty hoose... and still find somebody else to blame.
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16 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Geez.... YOU said people "need to remember"!.

Nobody needs to remember. Nobody!

You choose to. Good on you.

You are now causing a disagreement over me agreeing with you.

You'd cause a fight in an empty hoose... and still find somebody else to blame. emoji850.png

BEK if you're going to continue to be pedantic and nitpick every (yes I know, maybe use this as a test) part of my posts when you don't demand the same from others, maybe it's best you just go back to your promise not to engage with me. 

Try JUST commenting on the views in the post. You can do it, I've seen you do it with countless other posters without the relentless deconstruction of comments.

It absolutely IS you causing these arguments, when FS even backs me up, it puts that beyond doubt.

Maybe try reading my posts without acknowledging the username, surely you agree with me you treat my posts differently to most others because of our past? What say, you sack doing that? 

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2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

At this stage, unless you (most fans) have seen all the other teams I'd suggest it's way too early for the gloom and doom predictions.

Similar would have been said last season by "most fans" at this stage of the season.

 

Ronnie is amongst  a cabal on here of Goodwin haters who has been doom and gloom since the day he was appointed. 

The fact he has improved us consistently since his appointment makes no difference, he could win us the league and they still wouldn't be happy which suggests to me it's due to something beyond his footballing philosophy although what that would be I know not. To moan about "negativity" while he delivers outcomes seldom seen in 30 years is beyond churlish. 

 

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19 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

3 goals scored in 46 games according to the Saints site.

Goals created? up for debate.

I'm not having a go at Joe for the sake of it. I think he is a good player and obviously the manager feels he is a good leader... I just personally feel that as a defender, McCarthy is a better player.

I'm wondering if he is on his way and they are protecting him?  Hope I'm wrong.

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4 hours ago, FTOF said:

Quite worrying that Goodwin was outthought by a dumpling like Neilson.

 

 

Spot on , at the moment we are too predictable. Everyone knows we play 3-5-2 . We're limited ,squad wise,  to change that to 4 at the back because Tanser isn't a tackler/defender. I suppose we could reintroduce McCarthy and push Dunne out to LB , as he has played there before. 

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Ronnie is amongst  a cabal on here of Goodwin haters who has been doom and gloom since the day he was appointed. 
The fact he has improved us consistently since his appointment makes no difference, he could win us the league and they still wouldn't be happy which suggests to me it's due to something beyond his footballing philosophy although what that would be I know not. To moan about "negativity" while he delivers outcomes seldom seen in 30 years is beyond churlish. 
 
Congratulations you point out Goodwin got us to our highest league position in 30 years just 7 years ago Danny Lennon did the same and was replaced with Tommy Craig oh Danny also won a trophy.

Goodwin himself freely admits to being negative and these tactics against Hamilton and Livingston cost us Top 6 and a league cup final place.

He worries too much about the other teams rather than let them worry about us.

I haven't called for him to be sacked I don't think he should be I just wish he wouldn't shit it at home to bloody Hearts.

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9 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Ronnie is amongst  a cabal on here of Goodwin haters who has been doom and gloom since the day he was appointed. 

The fact he has improved us consistently since his appointment makes no difference, he could win us the league and they still wouldn't be happy which suggests to me it's due to something beyond his footballing philosophy although what that would be I know not. To moan about "negativity" while he delivers outcomes seldom seen in 30 years is beyond churlish. 

 

There's also a similar group who think Goodwin can do no wrong, this is fairly normal in football supporters.

The rest usually over react with the results we get.

No big deal. 

 

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6 hours ago, billyg said:

Spot on , at the moment we are too predictable. Everyone knows we play 3-5-2 . We're limited ,squad wise,  to change that to 4 at the back because Tanser isn't a tackler/defender. I suppose we could reintroduce McCarthy and push Dunne out to LB , as he has played there before. 

To me, this a priority.

The defence looks nowhere near as solid as it did last season. Getting McCarthy back alongside our Captain would improve the situation markedly IMO. like it or not, Fraser is not as good a defender as McCarthy. He doesn't have the presence or strength that McCarthy does. I know McCarthy went off the boil a wee bit to the end of last season, but I thought that most of our players did. For me he adds a bit of calmness to the defence that has been missing so far.

I don't know whether we'll ever go to a back four. The manager seems pretty set in his mind that we're going 3-5-2.

If we did, go back four it would have to be with Tait/Dunne at LB.

Otherwise, if we stick with 3-5-2, then it would be Fraser or new RWB, with McCarthy/Shaugnessy/Dunne/Tanser.

We'll see soon enough whether the manager is too stubborn to plug the gaps.

I think that it's also quite noticeable that Power, who I think has done well, needs more help in the midfield, with either McPherson or Erhahon supporting him.

 

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After a successful season 2020/2021, when the fixtures were published for the new season, we saw that we were playing the two promoted teams in the first two games, followed by Celtic in the third game. There was a clear opportunity to get some points on the board before the Celtic game, even though one of the promoted teams was Hearts, a club with a bigger budget than ours.

Now, to have one point from these two games is disappointing. We drew with Dundee and couldn't finish them off in twenty minutes of playing against ten men. On Saturday it took us twenty minutes to get to grips with the system Hearts were using. Unfortunately by that time, they were a goal ahead and never looked back. Our midfield never really got to grips with the game, with only McGrath showing decent form, and our strikers couldn't finish the few chances they got.

Whether we like JG or not, he is our manager for the foreseeable future and now needs to show the tactical ability he seemed to have last season, by putting out a team with tactics that are not restricted to strong defence, long punts up the park and crosses into the box from halfway into the opposition's half of the pitch.

After Saturday, it looks as though we have a hard season ahead and I fear McGrath will have decided that he needs to get away to another club to progress his career. And who could blame him? The only question now is, how much can we get for him?

I'm no tactician, but I find it difficult to understand how JG can leave McCarthy out of the team, when almost everyone agreed that the defence was so solid last season and he was one of the main reasons for that.  

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I do not like the formation this season nor the personnel being used to try and implement it.

Last season we played one up top who was isolated. This year we go with 2 with the midfield support pushed higher than last season. Now we have 1 DM and last year 2. We have gone from having too many midfielders playing deep to too few.

We try and get the ball in the box quickly and often. This results from far too many hopeful punts up the park, especially from Dunne, in the expectation that Main will beat two CBs sitting on top of him. Most crosses will come from the WB. Tanser does have a good cross but tends to drift out the game too much waiting for something to happen. Tait works hard but has slowed down and is pretty hopeless at crossing. Henderson can cross but cannot defend and is too inexperienced to be a first team automatic pick.

However my biggest issues are Irish ones. McCarthy is no question our best CB but is not in the team as Jim wants a left footed CB. We didn't have a left footed CB last season but still had a very good defensive record so does it make much difference, if any? Certainly not when it means our best defender is left on the bench.

And secondly we have an outstanding talent in McGrath being used to pick up second balls from the long punts instead of creatively trying to dictate play through the middle. His talents are being wasted as we have turned into a long ball team.

I get what Jim is trying to do. I don't like it and do not enjoy it as I prefer a fast passing game like Hibs or Celtic, and do not think we have the players to execute his new formation properly. Long punts are a turn off.

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1 hour ago, Sonny said:

I do not like the formation this season nor the personnel being used to try and implement it.

Last season we played one up top who was isolated. This year we go with 2 with the midfield support pushed higher than last season. Now we have 1 DM and last year 2. We have gone from having too many midfielders playing deep to too few.

We try and get the ball in the box quickly and often. This results from far too many hopeful punts up the park, especially from Dunne, in the expectation that Main will beat two CBs sitting on top of him. Most crosses will come from the WB. Tanser does have a good cross but tends to drift out the game too much waiting for something to happen. Tait works hard but has slowed down and is pretty hopeless at crossing. Henderson can cross but cannot defend and is too inexperienced to be a first team automatic pick.

However my biggest issues are Irish ones. McCarthy is no question our best CB but is not in the team as Jim wants a left footed CB. We didn't have a left footed CB last season but still had a very good defensive record so does it make much difference, if any? Certainly not when it means our best defender is left on the bench.

And secondly we have an outstanding talent in McGrath being used to pick up second balls from the long punts instead of creatively trying to dictate play through the middle. His talents are being wasted as we have turned into a long ball team.

I get what Jim is trying to do. I don't like it and do not enjoy it as I prefer a fast passing game like Hibs or Celtic, and do not think we have the players to execute his new formation properly. Long punts are a turn off.

Same. I think Jim watched too many games in the Euros. We don't have the players for this malarkey. We have no pace, no-one can beat a man, the midfield looks lightweight with the one sitting mid leaving the defence exposed. The long punt into Main is easily dealt with by the opposition. Early days but 1 point out of 6 from two promoted sides is a worry.

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2 hours ago, FTOF said:

To me, this a priority.

The defence looks nowhere near as solid as it did last season. Getting McCarthy back alongside our Captain would improve the situation markedly IMO. like it or not, Fraser is not as good a defender as McCarthy. He doesn't have the presence or strength that McCarthy does. I know McCarthy went off the boil a wee bit to the end of last season, but I thought that most of our players did. For me he adds a bit of calmness to the defence that has been missing so far.

I don't know whether we'll ever go to a back four. The manager seems pretty set in his mind that we're going 3-5-2.

If we did, go back four it would have to be with Tait/Dunne at LB.

Otherwise, if we stick with 3-5-2, then it would be Fraser or new RWB, with McCarthy/Shaugnessy/Dunne/Tanser.

We'll see soon enough whether the manager is too stubborn to plug the gaps.

I think that it's also quite noticeable that Power, who I think has done well, needs more help in the midfield, with either McPherson or Erhahon supporting him.

 

I would like to see McPherson get a run in the team next to power, he’s a goal threat as well and I think he is due a decent run in the team, I’m surprised he doesn’t see more game time.

I have a feeling we are going to start this season the same way as we did last season with Goodwin trying to work out a system that works. 

Not many teams play with 2 up top, I would personally go with either Kiltie/McGrath in behind a striker then we can go 2 up top later in the game if need be.

One thing is for sure we need to get some pace in that team as soon as possible.

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1 hour ago, Sonny said:

I do not like the formation this season nor the personnel being used to try and implement it.

Last season we played one up top who was isolated. This year we go with 2 with the midfield support pushed higher than last season. Now we have 1 DM and last year 2. We have gone from having too many midfielders playing deep to too few.

We try and get the ball in the box quickly and often. This results from far too many hopeful punts up the park, especially from Dunne, in the expectation that Main will beat two CBs sitting on top of him. Most crosses will come from the WB. Tanser does have a good cross but tends to drift out the game too much waiting for something to happen. Tait works hard but has slowed down and is pretty hopeless at crossing. Henderson can cross but cannot defend and is too inexperienced to be a first team automatic pick.

However my biggest issues are Irish ones. McCarthy is no question our best CB but is not in the team as Jim wants a left footed CB. We didn't have a left footed CB last season but still had a very good defensive record so does it make much difference, if any? Certainly not when it means our best defender is left on the bench.

And secondly we have an outstanding talent in McGrath being used to pick up second balls from the long punts instead of creatively trying to dictate play through the middle. His talents are being wasted as we have turned into a long ball team.

I get what Jim is trying to do. I don't like it and do not enjoy it as I prefer a fast passing game like Hibs or Celtic, and do not think we have the players to execute his new formation properly. Long punts are a turn off.

I think in his short time so far, Dunne has proven himself to be an extremely competent and fairly pacey defender. Not one goal conceded this season has come from our left hand side.

However, he needs to forget the Franco Baresi/Paolo Maldini Hollywood passes (which he doesn’t seem capable of) and just pass the ball to the midfield. I wouldn’t even begin to know the stats, but so far I’d be very surprised if Dunne isn’t one of the most guilty players when it comes to conceding possession. 
In short, he needs to stick to what he’s good at. 

Edited by TPAFKA Jersey 2
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1 hour ago, JJ McG said:

I would like to see McPherson get a run in the team next to power, he’s a goal threat as well and I think he is due a decent run in the team, I’m surprised he doesn’t see more game time.

I have a feeling we are going to start this season the same way as we did last season with Goodwin trying to work out a system that works. 

Not many teams play with 2 up top, I would personally go with either Kiltie/McGrath in behind a striker then we can go 2 up top later in the game if need be.

One thing is for sure we need to get some pace in that team as soon as possible.

What McPherson has is an ability to play in strikers with some deft passes. He's got a great strike on him too. If he could add a little steel to his game, then he'd be a first pick.

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3 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

I think in his short time so far, Dunne has proven himself to be an extremely competent and fairly pacey defender. Not one goal conceded this season has come from our left hand side.

However, he needs to forget the Franco Baresi/Paolo Maldini Hollywood passes (which he doesn’t seem capable of) and just pass the ball to the midfield. I wouldn’t even begin to know the stats, but so far I’d be very surprised if Dunne isn’t one of the most guilty players when it comes to conceding possession. 
In short, he needs to stick to what he’s good at. 

Jason Cummings for Dundee's second goal was down our left hand side.

I am not having a go at Dunne. Defensively he has generally been ok but the defence as a whole has looked very suspect compared to last season. Having a huge gap between Power and McGrath/Kiltie doesn't help. But Dunne's insistence in blootering the ball up the park doesn't help create anything. On Saturday McGrath came back looking for the ball from Dunne but he ignored him and fired it straight out the park trying to reach Tait. But I think unfortunately the long ball is what the manager wants.

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21 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Jason Cummings for Dundee's second goal was down our left hand side.

I am not having a go at Dunne. Defensively he has generally been ok but the defence as a whole has looked very suspect compared to last season. Having a huge gap between Power and McGrath/Kiltie doesn't help. But Dunne's insistence in blootering the ball up the park doesn't help create anything. On Saturday McGrath came back looking for the ball from Dunne but he ignored him and fired it straight out the park trying to reach Tait. But I think unfortunately the long ball is what the manager wants.

No it wasn’t. It was down our right and crossed into the middle for Cummings. 

Edited by Callum Gilhooley
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1 hour ago, Sonny said:

Jason Cummings for Dundee's second goal was down our left hand side.

I am not having a go at Dunne. Defensively he has generally been ok but the defence as a whole has looked very suspect compared to last season. Having a huge gap between Power and McGrath/Kiltie doesn't help. But Dunne's insistence in blootering the ball up the park doesn't help create anything. On Saturday McGrath came back looking for the ball from Dunne but he ignored him and fired it straight out the park trying to reach Tait. But I think unfortunately the long ball is what the manager wants.

 

45 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

No it wasn’t. It was down our right and crossed into the middle for Cummings. 

Correct. For me the damage for that goal was done by Henderson’s inability to stop the run down their left or the cross into the box.

Although Cummings was largely unmarked. 

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Correct. For me the damage for that goal was done by Henderson’s inability to stop the run down their left or the cross into the box.
Although Cummings was largely unmarked. 
When you look back at the goal Marcus Fraser is the player pressuring the ball 30 yards from Dundee goal this also doesn't help.
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3 hours ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

No it wasn’t. It was down our right and crossed into the middle for Cummings. 

 

2 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

 

Correct. For me the damage for that goal was done by Henderson’s inability to stop the run down their left or the cross into the box.

Although Cummings was largely unmarked. 

I am well aware the cross came from our right but we were discussing the Centre Backs and Dunne in particular. Cummings wasn't coming down our right but between Shaughnessy and Dunne on our left and was unmarked for an easy shot. Both Centre Backs were at fault on the left side of our defence.

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12 minutes ago, Sonny said:

 

I am well aware the cross came from our right but we were discussing the Centre Backs and Dunne in particular. Cummings wasn't coming down our right but between Shaughnessy and Dunne on our left and was unmarked for an easy shot. Both Centre Backs were at fault on the left side of our defence.

I simply replied to your comment about their goal coming all down our left hand side, which it obviously didn’t .
Indeed Cummings wasn’t even in our left hand side of defence. He ran through the middle and scored from virtually the penalty spot .

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15 hours ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

I simply replied to your comment about their goal coming , which it obviously didn’t .
Indeed Cummings wasn’t even in our left hand side of defence. He ran through the middle and scored from virtually the penalty spot .

If you had been following the discussion you would have known I had given an opinion of the new formation and how it does not work to my liking and the defence being weaker this season than last season (not all the CBs' fault). Someone else said we had not conceded a goal from our left hand side. I merely pointed out that Cummings scored from poor play by our central and left sided CBs. There was no reference to the build up play ('all down our left hand side') but the fact that the centre back pairing on the left did not pick up their man causing an easy goal for Cummings.

But all of this is pedantry compared to the real issue that was being discussed ie the new formation and is it working.

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