djchapsticks Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, bazil85 said: I didn't say there weren't issues, I'm asking if anyone has a view on issues that will be long-term? I haven't heard one yet. This. This is a long-term concern. It definitely should be to everyone who has read/heard this comment and digested it fully. The appraisal that if you are getting someone or something for no outlay it makes it a good deal. This is an absolutely f**king mental mindset to take and really concerns me in the long term that instead of actually paying money for someone who will be good in the role, we'll happily take whatever's on the go if we're getting it for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Time will tell, I'm only going on what the club have said regarding the Kibbles knowledge and expertise. I choose to believe that but the proof will be in the pudding over the next few years. I would be happy to eat my words if wrong Baz 👍🏻 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, alanb said: Some guys are born to wear blazers Teflon ones at that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 Just now, djchapsticks said: This. This is a long-term concern. It definitely should be to everyone who has read/heard this comment and digested it fully. The appraisal that if you are getting someone or something for no outlay it makes it a good deal. This is an absolutely f**king mental mindset to take and really concerns me in the long term that instead of actually paying money for someone who will be good in the role, we'll happily take whatever's on the go if we're getting it for nothing. That's a matter of opinion, I fundamentally disagree that utilising a paid colleague from our ownership partners is a long-term concern. I think it's a fantastic idea assuming he has the experience and capability to perform the role, if he doesn't the financial risk is limited. Another point where time will tell though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, ALBIONSAINT said: I would be happy to eat my words if wrong Baz 👍🏻 Same 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, bazil85 said: That's a matter of opinion, I fundamentally disagree that utilising a paid colleague from our ownership partners is a long-term concern. I think it's a fantastic idea assuming he has the experience and capability to perform the role, if he doesn't the financial risk is limited. Another point where time will tell though. Dearie me, you'll just never, ever concede anything. Never have, never will. It's a long-term concern because the mindset of 'free=good deal' is potentially ruinous. If the person doesn't have the capability the financial risk isn't limited FFS, purely in terms of a wage? Yes. In terms of actively costing the club money in revenue? Someone not qualified will potentially actively cost the club more money than they'd be paying out in a wage. I mean, if these people didn't bring value to the running of clubs, why are they paid for their role? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Slash said: The role is General Manager. I don’t believe the current incumbent has held such a role before. The previous Kibble incumbent who was placed oversaw the doomed “Experience” project. £1.9M just written off. So yes he did have experience of being a General Manager prior to being St Mirren GM, but it could be argued that he was not successful at that. You have the person hung before a trial. 8 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Dearie me, you'll just never, ever concede anything. Never have, never will. It's a long-term concern because the mindset of 'free=good deal' is potentially ruinous. If the person doesn't have the capability the financial risk isn't limited FFS, purely in terms of a wage? Yes. In terms of actively costing the club money in revenue? Someone not qualified will potentially actively cost the club more money than they'd be paying out in a wage. I mean, if these people didn't bring value to the running of clubs, why are they paid for their role? It's more you just won't accept other opinions. Regarding you, me or anyone else, we have absolutely no idea of the level of success this person will have in the job role long-term or their capability to complete their duties. Your view is there is significant risk in this approach, I don't agree with that. The person is still accountable to the Kibble as an employee and will have responsibilities in his role to meet. I don't think the fact he's coming from & paid by the Kibble automatically means he'll fail. IF he doesn't have the capability. Can you confirm the person does not? I agree with all the other risks in a person not competent in the role but why does the fact he's being paid by someone else automatically mean he'll fail? Edited September 7, 2021 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Dearie me, you'll just never, ever concede anything. Never have, never will. It's a long-term concern because the mindset of 'free=good deal' is potentially ruinous. If the person doesn't have the capability the financial risk isn't limited FFS, purely in terms of a wage? Yes. In terms of actively costing the club money in revenue? Someone not qualified will potentially actively cost the club more money than they'd be paying out in a wage. I mean, if these people didn't bring value to the running of clubs, why are they paid for their role? Strategy You don’t need to be able to do the job Just manage those that can do the job Then the problem begins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant Disguise Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Dearie me, you'll just never, ever concede anything. Never have, never will. It's a long-term concern because the mindset of 'free=good deal' is potentially ruinous. If the person doesn't have the capability the financial risk isn't limited FFS, purely in terms of a wage? Yes. In terms of actively costing the club money in revenue? Someone not qualified will potentially actively cost the club more money than they'd be paying out in a wage. I mean, if these people didn't bring value to the running of clubs, why are they paid for their role? I would go further that the role needs someone to take ownership of it. Not starting the role knowing that their paymasters are not the people that are making decisions on. Knowing that your salary depends on your capability in your job is a good motivator. Recipe for disaster. At least when it goes pear shaped the excuse “Well at least we were not paying for them to do the role” can be rolled out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 9 minutes ago, Slash said: The role is General Manager. I don’t believe the current incumbent has held such a role before. The previous Kibble incumbent who was placed oversaw the doomed “Experience” project. £1.9M just written off. So yes he did have experience of being a General Manager prior to being St Mirren GM, but it could be argued that he was not successful at that. This can happen, when the money being invested is not yours, happens all the time in Quangos and government departments. Unfortunately this is the area that Kibble operates within. They will require a good dose of reality salts before being given any further responsibilities within the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 If I was a guest reading through this thread I would be of the impression that Baz is a high up member of the club and not just a fan. Remember but that this is only IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, bazil85 said: You have the person hung before a trial. It's more you just won't accept other opinions. Regarding you, me or anyone else, we have absolutely no idea of the level of success this person will have in the job role long-term or their capability to complete their duties. Your view is there is significant risk in this approach, I don't agree with that. The person is still accountable to the Kibble as an employee and will have responsibilities in his role to meet. I don't think the fact he's coming from & paid by the Kibble automatically means he'll fail. IF he doesn't have the capability. Can you confirm the person does not? I agree with all the other risks in a person not competent in the role but why does the fact he's being paid by someone else automatically mean he'll fail? The GM is Lynsey McLean ( not a HIM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant Disguise Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 Just now, linwood buddie said: If I was a guest reading through this thread I would be of the impression that Baz is a high up member of the club and not just a fan. Remember but that this is only IMO. I kind of share that opinion. However reading back in threads it is also possible that his paymasters could the the Kibble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, Slash said: The role is General Manager. I don’t believe the current incumbent has held such a role before. The previous Kibble incumbent who was placed oversaw the doomed “Experience” project. £1.9M just written off. So yes he did have experience of being a General Manager prior to being St Mirren GM, but it could be argued that he was not successful at that. Is this still David Jamieson or has that changed now? I remember someone saying there had been a change in his role. You really need to let that go, how on earth is it fair to continuously hold someone to a project that didn't go exactly to plan? These things happen in business, would you be happy for your employer to hold you to a mistake you made for the rest of your career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brilliant Disguise Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 Just now, bazil85 said: Is this still David Jamieson or has that changed now? I remember someone saying there had been a change in his role. You really need to let that go, how on earth is it fair to continuously hold someone to a project that didn't go exactly to plan? These things happen in business, would you be happy for your employer to hold you to a mistake you made for the rest of your career? If it cost me £1.9m then yes.!!! Or i would just blame Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, linwood buddie said: If I was a guest reading through this thread I would be of the impression that Baz is a high up member of the club and not just a fan. Remember but that this is only IMO. The forum is the great leveller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, bazil85 said: You have the person hung before a trial. It's more you just won't accept other opinions. Regarding you, me or anyone else, we have absolutely no idea of the level of success this person will have in the job role long-term or their capability to complete their duties. Your view is there is significant risk in this approach, I don't agree with that. The person is still accountable to the Kibble as an employee and will have responsibilities in his role to meet. I don't think the fact he's coming from & paid by the Kibble automatically means he'll fail. IF he doesn't have the capability. Can you confirm the person does not? I agree with all the other risks in a person not competent in the role but why does the fact he's being paid by someone else automatically mean he'll fail? You've gone way off course here as you tend to do. The point being made - the statement 'They are not being paid by us so it's a good deal' is a hugely problematic mindset in itself to hold when running any business and certainly gives me long term concerns. Those with that base mindset will be left behind running the club long after Kibble GM succeeds or fails. THAT is the long term concern I have alluded to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, alanb said: The GM is Lynsey McLean ( not a HIM) 1 minute ago, bazil85 said: Is this still David Jamieson or has that changed now? I remember someone saying there had been a change in his role. You really need to let that go, how on earth is it fair to continuously hold someone to a project that didn't go exactly to plan? These things happen in business, would you be happy for your employer to hold you to a mistake you made for the rest of your career? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, alanb said: The GM is Lynsey McLean ( not a HIM) I wasn't sure if it was still David Jamieson, heard a few different things in regards to who is doing what. Lynsey credentials (according to Linkedin). Around 17 years experience in marketing and events, an honours degree in marketing and a member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing. Nothing in there that suggests to me she will automatically be a failure at St Mirren because she happens to be paid by Kibble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 1 minute ago, bazil85 said: I wasn't sure if it was still David Jamieson, heard a few different things in regards to who is doing what. Lynsey credentials (according to Linkedin). Around 17 years experience in marketing and events, an honours degree in marketing and a member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing. Nothing in there that suggests to me she will automatically be a failure at St Mirren because she happens to be paid by Kibble. I posted without opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 I posted without opinion Just as well.If Baz wanted your opinion, he would give it to you! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: You've gone way off course here as you tend to do. The point being made - the statement 'They are not being paid by us so it's a good deal' is a hugely problematic mindset in itself to hold when running any business and certainly gives me long term concerns. Those with that base mindset will be left behind running the club long after Kibble GM succeeds or fails. THAT is the long term concern I have alluded to. I disagree with you & agree with John Needham, you'll just have to accept that. I don't think it's a long-term concern that someone's salary comes from the other part owners of SMFC. Time will tell who is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 I also love the dismissive attitude. You literally asked 'Has anyone got any long-term concerns as I've not seen one?' I posted one. One that in my opinion is a legitimate and potentially very costly long-term concern and you instantly went along the lines of 'Pffft that's not a long-term concern or even a concern at all' and then followed up by having a wee moan about how other people can't accept differing opinions without a shred or irony or self-awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Slash said: Not like you to not have your finger on the pulse. He no longer works for St Mirren. It is this lady. She also was Head of The Experience for 4 years. https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynsey-mclean-2584b630/?originalSubdomain=uk You could have had the best marketing team in the country working on “the experience” it was there costing model that hamstrung it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted September 7, 2021 Report Share Posted September 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, bazil85 said: I disagree with you & agree with John Needham, you'll just have to accept that. I don't think it's a long-term concern that someone's salary comes from the other part owners of SMFC. Time will tell who is right. I just think you are deliberately missing the point now, so this is where I bow out. I should really know better than to ever engage you in any sort of conversation TBH, more fool me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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