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SMISA meeting 6/9/21


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7 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Every fan should be surely. ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ

You clearly dislike the notion of asking difficult questions to try and improve from within.

Has it ever occurred to you that fans are asking these questions BECAUSE of love for the club and concern at the goings on we are seeing?

Of course, the majority of folk on here, the majority of people you speak to on social media and at games and seemingly most of the people in attendance last night are all wrong and just moaners with agendas and you are in the right.¬†ūüôĄ

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4 hours ago, rabuddies said:

One meeting and everybody is at each other's throats, raised voices and insults flying everywhere.  Fan ownership needs the right people at the top which will require some tough decisions. It also needs the fans to put up and shut up until the club is on a proper footing.  It will all end in tears you know.

The fans are the lifeblood of the club. The reasons why the meeting was called was to try and get answers to numerous issues that have directly affected us over the last few months. 

Do you honestly think it is acceptable for a professional top tier football club with a revenue of circa £4M to treat their customer base and it’s staff so badly?

Over recent months we have had numerous issues that have directly impacted the operational running of our club. 

There is a well paid employee who has been at the head of our club for many years who it would seem is out of his depth. The buck stops with him. He needs to be held accountable. 

 

 

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Laying my cards on the table I still don't understand why we couldn't have had a similar relationship with Kibble without them owning part of the club, I am also concerned with the lack of continuity with GS still being on the board and also the lack of accountability that he should bear on historical issues while under his leadership that is now being directed at JN. I agree that Tony is the one person with the club fully at the heart of what he does but he needs some business assistance and I had hoped JN would assist with that. We've had a lot of change over a short period not all of it of our own making and the disruption of covid won't have helped but, and for me this is the big one, we now need to see some positive improvements in organisation, customer service and communication quickly or the natives will start voting with their feet and more importantly their wallets.

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10 hours ago, santaponsasaint said:
10 hours ago, Slash said:
We only voted for two. Mr Scott and Mr Wardrop were asked to stay on. Rumours are that Mr Wardrop was anti SMiSA for many years. 
 

What load of rubbish. Why would Alan be anti Smisa.

Because anybody with half a brain could see what was going to happen when this mob took over, that rules you out hoose haunter!

Edited by God of war
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8 hours ago, Slash said:

Tonight the Chairman said that the club shop was closed down based on a presentation that outlined vast changes in renvue. The plan was to take the ownership in-house. But once the shop was shut more investigation was done and it turned out that the in-house plan wouldn’t fly so it was outsourced to Provan Sports who I think we in-housed under Richard Atkinsons tenure. Personally I’m glad it’s Provans rather than the club. They know how to treat customers.

Good due diligence Baz. 

I agree, seems a well thought out decision was made following in-depth analysis. Possibly down to the experience & capabilities of the Kibble employees they have come onboard?¬†¬†ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ

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3 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

You clearly dislike the notion of asking difficult questions to try and improve from within.

Has it ever occurred to you that fans are asking these questions BECAUSE of love for the club and concern at the goings on we are seeing?

Of course, the majority of folk on here, the majority of people you speak to on social media and at games and seemingly most of the people in attendance last night are all wrong and just moaners with agendas and you are in the right.¬†ūüôĄ

I don’t dislike that at all. My view is, there’s been a lot completely blown out of proportion on this. 
 

Yes there have been problems over the summer & the transition hasn’t been plain sailing but an expectation it should have been with zero issues isn’t realistic. Fans going as far as wanting us to buy the Kibble out & fabricating concerns & conspiracy theory on every little decision is just a bit too far IMO. That’s it, I’m allowed that opinion like others are allowed the opinion that the Kibble is to blame for the feckin poor weather. 
 

I don‚Äôt for one second thing a ‚Äėmajority‚Äô of St Mirren fans think everything is broken with the club & the Kibble partnership. Vocal minorities.¬†

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Just now, bazil85 said:

I agree, seems a well thought out decision was made following in-depth analysis. Possibly down to the experience & capabilities of the Kibble employees they have come onboard?¬†¬†ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ

Nope. Not buying that. The plan was for Kibble youngsters to gain experience working in a shop. The Kibble annual report clearly says that. Go onto Companies House and read for yourself. You might want to ignore the eye watering amounts that Kibble directors earn. I certainly won’t contribute to that particular charity especially when they have furloughed so many staff.

I believe it was a Kibble led initiative to close the shop. 
 

But once they made that decision someone¬†obviously had second thoughts. The Kibble¬†have ‚ÄúExperience‚ÄĚ in U turns for projects. That particular project for Karting and Laser Quest was written off to the tune of ¬£1.9M.¬†
 

So what experience are they bringing to St Mirren FC if they can’t make a success of a go karting business that received vast sums of donations?

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9 hours ago, santaponsasaint said:

Tony is the only one I trust. And works his ass off for us. Don't think hes the problem. Think there's too many chiefs and not enough Indians emoji848.png

Your last part is bang on the money. Far too many chiefs not doing anything constructive. 

Reading the notes surprised that the Chairman on a number of occasions threw Tony under the bus. If Tony is the issue then the board should deal with it. Use Tony on his strengths not as the convenient scapegoat. Do we now have another Master in Chief with a Teflon Suit.

Disappointed in JN approach to last nights meeting. He could easily have surmised the questions that were coming and had clear defined answers. If he was unable to answer the questions then why have the PR Stunt.

Nothing positive came out of yesterday meeting. Even by GA offering yet another nonproductive PR stunt was recognition that animosity was still high.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Slash said:

Nope. Not buying that. The plan was for Kibble youngsters to gain experience working in a shop. The Kibble annual report clearly says that. Go onto Companies House and read for yourself. You might want to ignore the eye watering amounts that Kibble directors earn. I certainly won’t contribute to that particular charity especially when they have furloughed so many staff.

I believe it was a Kibble led initiative to close the shop. 
 

But once they made that decision someone¬†obviously had second thoughts. The Kibble¬†have ‚ÄúExperience‚ÄĚ in U turns for projects. That particular project for Karting and Laser Quest was written off to the tune of ¬£1.9M.¬†
 

So what experience are they bringing to St Mirren FC if they can’t make a success of a go karting business that received vast sums of donations?

Just now, Slash said:

Are you a Tory spinmonger in your day job?

I would say there's a few points we know. People can make up their own minds on the partnership (indeed I feel a few, probably including yourself made up their mind before they had even stepped in the door when you look at your karting comment). 

- There are a number of legacy issues with the stadium and training ground. These have not been properly identified or addressed until the Kibble came onboard, yes that is ongoing right now but at least it has started.

- We have changed over several contracts this year. This links into fan communication on what the Kibble would support with regarding their business contacts and business models to support people under their nature of business. 

- We are ONLY a few months into a settled arrangement regarding the club ownership.

- Fans have shown concerns about our ticket system for a long time, some have asked us to explore in-house merchandise/ third party ownerships and our standing main sponsor (that pre-dated Kibble) moved the goalposts on a deal at the last minute. 

 

Now people can look at all these known points and jump to "Kibble bad" that's absolutely their right. My opinion is: 

- It's FAR too soon to conclude that this is not the right direction

- Seems like Kibble are doing what they said they would do & I think expectations that would be completely seamless are ridiculously unrealistic 

- Most of the issues seem pretty short-term to me

- I don't think it's a coincidence that experienced business partners have come onboard and some skeletons have been found in the closet. 

These are my views, I'm used to being attacked because I don't automatically jump to an Armageddon scenario but unless I start to see some concerns that look more long-term and detrimental to SMFC, I will have a little bit more patience and understanding than some. 

Your Tory comment is ironic, you're the one that's spinning points on a football club to negatives about part of their ownership model. 

 

 

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Nope. Not buying that. The plan was for Kibble youngsters to gain experience working in a shop. The Kibble annual report clearly says that. Go onto Companies House and read for yourself. You might want to ignore the eye watering amounts that Kibble directors earn. I certainly won’t contribute to that particular charity especially when they have furloughed so many staff.
I believe it was a Kibble led initiative to close the shop. 
 
But once they made that decision someone¬†obviously had second thoughts. The Kibble¬†have ‚ÄúExperience‚ÄĚ in U turns for projects. That particular project for Karting and Laser Quest was written off to the tune of ¬£1.9M.¬†
 
So what experience are they bringing to St Mirren FC if they can’t make a success of a go karting business that received vast sums of donations?
Noooooo.... You mentioned Companies House! You had to, didn't you. It was "proven" how unreliable that is by an expert!
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13 hours ago, Doakes said:

All updates in OP

Hoped that questions would be answered but if anything seems to have raised more questions.

Disappointed that Tony F and Jim Gillespie (or someone else from Kibble) didn’t show, was a great chance to get everything out. 

Hearing that the meeting is still going but mostly just shouting at the moment

I read on Twitter another meeting has been arranged for 4 weeks time. I know it was a smisa meeting with smisa members, though with the negativity shared amongst some of the support towards Kibble, surely they should be invited along or they should at least ask to attend the next one, along with Tony so they are digesting what the feedback is in person and explaining how they can improve things their side. The general manager role to me sounds a bit alarming if its not been given to someone with the relevant experience. 
Tony has also had a lot of flak and he has a right to defend from his perspective. 

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38 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Your last part is bang on the money. Far too many chiefs not doing anything constructive. 

Disappointed in JN approach to last nights meeting. He could easily have surmised the questions that were coming and had clear defined answers. If he was unable to answer the questions then why have the PR Stunt.

About 20 minutes in he was asked by a¬†‚Äėvocal minority shareholder‚Äô (VMS)¬†to do exactly that. But he swerved that option.

JN refused point blank to answer a valid question from a VMS¬†on what the ‚Äúhistorical‚ÄĚ Health and Safety issues were that¬†meant¬†only 1039 fans were allowed into the stadium for matches at the beginning of the season. VMS suggested raising¬†a Freedom of Information request on Renfrewshire Council to get to the truth.¬†

At the tale end of the meeting another VMS why the results of the pre-meeting survey were not presented to the audience and used as a formal agenda for the meeting. Further VMS’s repeatedly asked for a follow up meeting as they felt the questions asked were not being fully answered. JN stated he did not want a follow up meeting.

Another VMS proposed a show of hands to assess what the audience wanted and the overwhelming majority wanted another meeting.

I salute the VMS’s who took time out of their lives to attend last nights meeting.

A VMS travelled 1000miles to be there last night. Prior to his attendance he took the time to watch the Kibble-SMiSA-GLS ‚Äúsales pitch‚ÄĚ and the¬†points he made referring back to that proposal were met with a round of applause. IIRC they¬†centred on ‚ÄúProfessionalism‚ÄĚ, ‚ÄúIT Improvements‚ÄĚ, ‚ÄúCustomer Service‚Ä̬†and so on.

But to Baz, they are just a vocal minority. To be laughed at and ignored.

Edited by Slash
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4 minutes ago, kevo_smfc said:

I read on Twitter another meeting has been arranged for 4 weeks time. I know it was a smisa meeting with smisa members, though with the negativity shared amongst some of the support towards Kibble, surely they should be invited along or they should at least ask to attend the next one, along with Tony so they are digesting what the feedback is in person and explaining how they can improve things their side. The general manager role to me sounds a bit alarming if its not been given to someone with the relevant experience. 
Tony has also had a lot of flak and he has a right to defend from his perspective. 

Totally agree, SMISA should invite kibble. I'm not interested in a blame game - i've worked a lot with kibble over the years and they have done some very good work with young people - but in my experience their business is paramount, and the justifiable concerns is they are making decisions based on kibbles best interests rather than the clubs, despite attempts to claim otherwise. Concerns are made worse by the lack of transparency over how their involvement works, and the constant "great bunch of lads" patter from the club.

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19 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Noooooo.... You mentioned Companies House! You had to, didn't you. It was "proven" how unreliable that is by an expert! emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji12.png

You just can't help yourself can you? To the levels you have ramped up your lying on here.

No one ever said Companies house wasn't reliable as a source of data, just that it is not a tool to perform full due diligence on in isolation. The meeting last night confirmed that people losing their mind over the Stewarding situation had completely overreacted. 

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18 minutes ago, Slash said:

About 20 minutes in he was asked by a¬†‚Äėvocal minority shareholder‚Äô (VMS)¬†to do exactly that. But he swerved that option.

JN refused point blank to answer a valid question from a VMS¬†on what the ‚Äúhistorical‚ÄĚ Health and Safety issues were that¬†meant¬†only 1039 fans were allowed into the stadium for matches at the beginning of the season. VMS suggested raising¬†a Freedom of Information request on Renfrewshire Council to get to the truth.¬†

At the tale end of the meeting another VMS why the results of the pre-meeting survey were not presented to the audience and used as a formal agenda for the meeting. Further VMS’s repeatedly asked for a follow up meeting as they felt the questions asked were not being fully answered. JN stated he did not want a follow up meeting.

Another VMS proposed a show of hands to assess what the audience wanted and the overwhelming majority wanted another meeting.

I salute the VMS’s who took time out of their lives to attend last nights meeting.

A VMS travelled 1000miles to be there last night. Prior to his attendance he took the time to watch the Kibble-SMiSA-GLS ‚Äúsales pitch‚ÄĚ and the¬†points he made referring back to that proposal were met with a round of applause. IIRC they¬†centred on ‚ÄúProfessionalism‚ÄĚ, ‚ÄúIT Improvements‚ÄĚ, ‚ÄúCustomer Service‚Ä̬†and so on.

But to Baz, they are just a vocal minority. To be laughed at and ignored.

Seems like a vocal minority, I certainly can't see a majority of St Mirren fans contributing to this.

Your last point is more spin, I have never said or remotely suggested that. Surely we can agree on the irony regarding your Tory comment now? 

Out of interest, can anyone name a long-term problem the club is currently facing that we can attribute to the Kibble? 

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You just can't help yourself can you? To the levels you have ramped up your lying on here.
No one ever said Companies house wasn't reliable as a source of data, just that it is not a tool to perform full due diligence on in isolation. The meeting last night confirmed that people losing their mind over the Stewarding situation had completely overreacted. 
Here fishy fishy!

So easy!
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You just can't help yourself can you? To the levels you have ramped up your lying on here.
No one ever said Companies house wasn't reliable as a source of data, just that it is not a tool to perform full due diligence on in isolation. The meeting last night confirmed that people losing their mind over the Stewarding situation had completely overreacted. 
Again... You totally diss the stewards... Many of whom are St Mirren fans with up to 20 years service to the club.

Still... What do you care about them being made unemployed and seeing their jobs advertised?

You have all the compassion of Thatcher for miners or the people of Ravenscraig.
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Just now, BuddieinEK said:

Again... You totally diss the stewards... Many of whom are St Mirren fans with up to 20 years service to the club.

Still... What do you care about them being made unemployed and seeing their jobs advertised?

You have all the compassion of Thatcher for miners or the people of Ravenscraig. emoji850.png

Where did I diss the stewards, can you point it out?

Another day, another absolute nightmare for you :D 

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18 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

You just can't help yourself can you? To the levels you have ramped up your lying on here.

No one ever said Companies house wasn't reliable as a source of data, just that it is not a tool to perform full due diligence on in isolation. The meeting last night confirmed that people losing their mind over the Stewarding situation had completely overreacted. 

The situation with stewarding was also raised last night. Did you know that the reason why we could not increase capacity for the St Johnstone game was because the original replacement company Asigura left after one game, and the new company were not in place long enough for the club to ask for an increased capacity. But hey it was only St Johnstone. If they can afford Range Rovers and tractors, surely they can by PPV. Another failure. How long have they had to resolve the stewarding contract. 
 

IIRC the old stewarding company handled all games up until the Thistle game. It does seem strange that such an important contract was allowed to be run down during a season which is what JN said. Why were the old stewards forced to sign NDA? 
 

Surely from an operational standpoint that contract would terminate after the end of a football season.

Edited by Slash
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1 minute ago, Slash said:

The situation with stewarding was also raised last night. Did you know that the reason why we could increase capacity for the St Johnstone game was because the original replacement company Asigura left after one game, and the new company were not in place long enough for the club to ask for an increased capacity. But hey it was only St Johnstone. If they can afford Range Rovers and tractors, surely they can by PPV. Another failure. How long have they had to resolve the stewarding contract. 
 

IIRC the old stewarding company handled all games up until the Thistle game. It does seem strange that such an important contract was allowed to be run down during a season which is what JN said. Why were the old stewards forced to sign NDA? 
 

Surely from an operational standpoint that contract would terminate after the end of a football season.

As I have said a few times now, all seems pretty short-term regarding the issues & it isn't reasonable to expect zero teething problems when you change an operating model. Is there anything actually long-term that is showing as an issue with the Kibble? 

Did anyone ask why (or indeed if) they were told to sign NDA's?

 

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