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Uriel


Uriel1

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I'm still surprised he did...  other than More Money the rest could have been achieved with us. Jim jumped at the first opportunity as his stock was high it's as simple as that, wasn't long ago it wasn't looking too great for him. 

I honestly think the potential of St Mirren is nowhere near where it could be,  We have a large catchment area I believe we should be promoting ourselves as the alternative to the arse cheeks in the West of Scotland, our club easily has the potential to be a top 6 regular and we can start by stop talking us down when it comes to clubs like Hib's and Aberdeen  

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10 hours ago, portmahomack saint said:

I'm still surprised he did...  other than More Money the rest could have been achieved with us. Jim jumped at the first opportunity as his stock was high it's as simple as that, wasn't long ago it wasn't looking too great for him. 

I honestly think the potential of St Mirren is nowhere near where it could be,  We have a large catchment area I believe we should be promoting ourselves as the alternative to the arse cheeks in the West of Scotland, our club easily has the potential to be a top 6 regular and we can start by stop talking us down when it comes to clubs like Hib's and Aberdeen  

Alex Ferguson said:

East Stirling could never have been a St Mirren, St Mirren could never have been an Aberdeen and Aberdeen could never have been a Man United. That's why he moved on each time.

It was true in the 80's and it's still true now. Every club has a ceiling, and Aberdeen's is higher than ours. 

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Pretty self evident.

If you heard his interview on Radio Scotland pre-match at Motherwell on Saturday, he said it all and it's been said numerous times in the various posts re him leaving.

Sad but true, we will always be a good stepping stone for a good manager, player or coach if they are seen as being successful.

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10 hours ago, portmahomack saint said:

I'm still surprised he did...  other than More Money the rest could have been achieved with us. Jim jumped at the first opportunity as his stock was high it's as simple as that, wasn't long ago it wasn't looking too great for him. 

I honestly think the potential of St Mirren is nowhere near where it could be,  We have a large catchment area I believe we should be promoting ourselves as the alternative to the arse cheeks in the West of Scotland, our club easily has the potential to be a top 6 regular and we can start by stop talking us down when it comes to clubs like Hib's and Aberdeen  

I fully concur with your second paragraph.

The 80s showed some of our potential as a club in terms of performance and support.

But then, if you build a dinky little stadium, as we did,  you can then expect a dinky little support. 

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5 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

I fully concur with your second paragraph.

The 80s showed some of our potential as a club in terms of performance and support.

But then, if you build a dinky little stadium, as we did,  you can then expect a dinky little support. 

And this will continue to limit us even if we find the next Fergie and actually hold onto him.

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17 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

I fully concur with your second paragraph.

The 80s showed some of our potential as a club in terms of performance and support.

But then, if you build a dinky little stadium, as we did,  you can then expect a dinky little support. 

Sorry, don't see your logic there?

I have supported Saints through thick and thin from 1959, yes the year of our Cup success.

In these days crowds of 12 to 15,000 were regular and a quiet day was around 8,000. On OF visits it was packed to the rafters with 20,000+ numbers.

Throughout the 70's and 80's we all saw reduction in our support other than the terrible twins and even in Fergie's days we flirted with crowds of 6 to 10,000 but never regular repeats of the late 50's early 60's.

So we then entered our real doldrum days of crowds of 2,500 to 3,500 and some longish periods in the second tier of Scottish football. From that period we have never really recovered and now here we are in the next century and we had less than 4,000 at our cup game and just over that for the previous league game.

If we filled our stadium with 10,000 people each time we played, I would agree with you, but the reality of Scottish football, (and it is endemic) that you have to fight really hard to get above 6,000 unless you are the OF, Hearts, Hibs or Aberdeen.

Hence you build a stadium to meet your projected requirements. We can fill in the corners if we ever get to a point that might match your hoped for aspirations.

Edited by The Original 59er
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The size of our support is never going to change. People need to stop living in a fantasy world thinking it will.

Can you tell me any club in Scottish football who's support has dramatically increased at any point over the last 30 years?

Every club size and support in Scotland is firmly set in stone and wont change IMO. 

We have the Old Firm, Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen who will always be bigger clubs with bigger supports than us. We are then in the next category of teams along with Killie, Motherwell, Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Johnstone. We will remain in that bracket until the end of time no matter how much we try to tell ourself we wont. 

Edited by LargsBud
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Sorry, don't see your logic there?
I have supported Saints through thick and thin from 1959, yes the year of our Cup success.
In these days crowds of 12 to 15,000 were regular and a quiet day was around 8,000. On OF visits it was packed to the rafters with 20,000+ numbers.
Throughout the 70's and 80's we all saw reduction in our support other than the terrible twins and even in Fergie's days we flirted with crowds of 6 to 10,000 but never regular repeats of the late 50's early 60's.
So we then entered our real doldrum days of crowds of 2,500 to 3,500 and some longish periods in the second tier of Scottish football. From that period we have never really recovered and now here we are in the next century and we had less than 4,000 at our cup game and just over that for the previous league game.
If we filled our stadium with 10,000 people each time we played, I would agree with you, but the reality of Scottish football, (and it is endemic) that you have to fight really hard to get above 6,000 unless you are the OF, Hearts, Hibs or Aberdeen.
Hence you build a stadium to meet your projected requirements. We can fill in the corners if we ever get to a point that might match your hoped for aspirations.

Spot on analysis.
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1 hour ago, The Original 59er said:

Sorry, don't see your logic there?

I have supported Saints through thick and thin from 1959, yes the year of our Cup success.

In these days crowds of 12 to 15,000 were regular and a quiet day was around 8,000. On OF visits it was packed to the rafters with 20,000+ numbers.

Throughout the 70's and 80's we all saw reduction in our support other than the terrible twins and even in Fergie's days we flirted with crowds of 6 to 10,000 but never regular repeats of the late 50's early 60's.

So we then entered our real doldrum days of crowds of 2,500 to 3,500 and some longish periods in the second tier of Scottish football. From that period we have never really recovered and now here we are in the next century and we had less than 4,000 at our cup game and just over that for the previous league game.

If we filled our stadium with 10,000 people each time we played, I would agree with you, but the reality of Scottish football, (and it is endemic) that you have to fight really hard to get above 6,000 unless you are the OF, Hearts, Hibs or Aberdeen.

Hence you build a stadium to meet your projected requirements. We can fill in the corners if we ever get to a point that might match your hoped for aspirations.

No club gets what they got in the 1950's. Been a huge societal change since then, there's alot more to do on a Saturday now :D

We have a core home support of around 3,000. If we are doing well it goes up to around 4,000, going badly it goes down to about 2,000.  For big games (cup finals etc) we can get up to another 10,000. That's been fairly constant for around 30 years now, and won't change much going forward. 

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1 hour ago, TopCat said:

Alex Ferguson said:

East Stirling could never have been a St Mirren, St Mirren could never have been an Aberdeen and Aberdeen could never have been a Man United. That's why he moved on each time.

It was true in the 80's and it's still true now. Every club has a ceiling, and Aberdeen's is higher than ours. 

I don't doubt you that fergie said that but I haven't seen it.. most certainly Aberdeen will never be a Man united.  the difference between us and Aberdeen is nowhere near as much.. 

But I'll tell you what Alex Ferguson said in October 1977 in the players lounge at Notts County to a bunch of Saints fan's he said we will win the league in two years...  true to his word he did win the league two years later.... but with Aberdeen. 

That could have been us.... The dizzy height's of success was too much for some people and they didn't like him getting all the limelght..  So they sacked him 

 

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1 hour ago, hamlet said:

The only option was to build the dinky little stadiium, or St Mirren no more. Thank you Tesco for your stupi sorry generousity.

Tesco didn't lose out on the deal. In fact, didn't the council give them a change of planning from retail to residential they refused to give us. That probably cost us and is why we have our dinky wee stadium.

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11 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Tesco didn't lose out on the deal. In fact, didn't the council give them a change of planning from retail to residential they refused to give us. That probably cost us and is why we have our dinky wee stadium.

Before Tesco stepped in, St.Mirren seeked to sell ground to a housing developer to try and clear their bank debts. 

Clip from Evening Times " The cash generated by selling the site directly for housing, thought to be around £5million, would not have been enough to clear the club's debts and fund the new stadium." 

Sainsbury offered £15M,  Tesco apparently £18m 

 

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25 minutes ago, pod said:

Before Tesco stepped in, St.Mirren seeked to sell ground to a housing developer to try and clear their bank debts. 

Clip from Evening Times " The cash generated by selling the site directly for housing, thought to be around £5million, would not have been enough to clear the club's debts and fund the new stadium." 

Sainsbury offered £15M,  Tesco apparently £18m 

 

Beat me to it.

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1 hour ago, pod said:

Before Tesco stepped in, St.Mirren seeked to sell ground to a housing developer to try and clear their bank debts. 

Clip from Evening Times " The cash generated by selling the site directly for housing, thought to be around £5million, would not have been enough to clear the club's debts and fund the new stadium." 

Sainsbury offered £15M,  Tesco apparently £18m 

 

My apologies. I was sure we were denied the change of usage from retail to residential. I didn't think they even found out how much it would benefit or otherwise.

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4 hours ago, TopCat said:

Alex Ferguson said:

East Stirling could never have been a St Mirren, St Mirren could never have been an Aberdeen and Aberdeen could never have been a Man United. That's why he moved on each time.

It was true in the 80's and it's still true now. Every club has a ceiling, and Aberdeen's is higher than ours. 

You're quote is nearly correct... I'm pretty sure it was ES could never be as big as SM, SM could never be Aberdeen, Aberdeen could never be as big as MU.... 

I remember thinking when hearing it, did he think St Mirren could be / or are as big as Aberdeen...

I'm also sure we had the 3rd highest average attendance one season in the late 70s (maybe some old timers can confirm this ) I was only pup back then..

Only a slight difference from they way you worded it but pretty significant..

 

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2 hours ago, pod said:

Before Tesco stepped in, St.Mirren seeked to sell ground to a housing developer to try and clear their bank debts. 

Clip from Evening Times " The cash generated by selling the site directly for housing, thought to be around £5million, would not have been enough to clear the club's debts and fund the new stadium." 

Sainsbury offered £15M,  Tesco apparently £18m 

 

Sorry, don't think you quite have your figures correct there.

Yes Tesco wanted into Paisley and they had been thwarted quite a few times and along came the opportunity wrapped up in Love St and a way out of a financial crises for the Club.

The club convinced the Council to consider granting them consent for a supermarket knowing full well that Tesco would take it, but the only thing was that as far as the retail giants were concerned, yes it was a consent for a store of the right size, but it was in totally the wrong location.

So they bargained on buying Love St and then trading the consent onto a better located site. However along the way came a complete C (or sea) change in how the supermarket operators developed their sites and how much they could afford. They made the decision not to pursue a store in Paisley as they could not find a suitable enough site at the price level that would make it all worthwhile, so they held the site until they could find the best way out to a housing development value.

Tesco probably lost a good couple of £m but my informed sources at the time suggested £7m is roughly what they paid and sold for no more than £5m. Figures can be clarified through the Register of Sasines if you are really that interested.

Your thought that Sainsbury's offered £15m+ is also an interesting but I think flawed angle. 

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10 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

Sorry, don't think you quite have your figures correct there.  ( not my figures)

Figures can be clarified through the Register of Sasines if you are really that interested.

Your thought that Sainsbury's offered £15m+ is also an interesting but I think flawed angle. 

Not interested in the slightest, only quote what was reported by the press at the time, which came be found on web if interested. 

Edited by pod
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7 hours ago, TopCat said:

Alex Ferguson said:

East Stirling could never have been a St Mirren, St Mirren could never have been an Aberdeen and Aberdeen could never have been a Man United. That's why he moved on each time.

It was true in the 80's and it's still true now. Every club has a ceiling, and Aberdeen's is higher than ours. 

Spot on. Realistic. Doesn’t stop you (or me) from being as avid a St Mirren fan as any other.

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