Ukraine v Russia Has Kicked Off

[Rascal]

Snake Island back in Ukrainian hands but Russia with the upper hand in the east.

[portmahomack saint]

5 minutes ago, Rascal said:

Snake Island back in Ukrainian hands but Russia with the upper hand in the east.

There's probably a lot of politics going on in the background Ricky we know nothing about...  Snake island lies in the gateway for shipping to feed the world 

[Rascal]

14 hours ago, portmahomack saint said:

There's probably a lot of politics going on in the background Ricky we know nothing about...  Snake island lies in the gateway for shipping to feed the world 

I agree Port. It’s in the interests of both sides that a safe sea channel can be opened to get grain out. I read that Lloyds of London underwrites insurance for up to 90% of large oil and commodity carrying ships. If they withdraw cover in the area, nothing will move.

[Callum Gilhooley]

2 hours ago, Rascal said:

I agree Port. It’s in the interests of both sides that a safe sea channel can be opened to get grain out. I read that Lloyds of London underwrites insurance for up to 90% of large oil and commodity carrying ships. If they withdraw cover in the area, nothing will move.

Don’t bet on it . Putin will ensure that any vessel flying the Russian flag will be covered for all eventualities and will take the line that they will do as they please , their ships will be accompanied by Russian warships if necessary and any attempt to interfere with their passage will be treated as aggressive and inflammatory by Moscow and will give him cause and excuse to strike back,  in his eyes.😡

Only way to restrict the transport of stolen Grain is for receiving ports to refuse berthing and handling of the Cargo but the likes of Turkey simply won’t do that ?

Edited July 1, 2022 by Callum Gilhooley

[Rascal]

Housing Ukrainian Refugees on Cruise Ship https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-62304573

[Tam M]

We have a Ukrainian family staying with us, we got their wee boy a St Mirren top, so the Ukrainian St Mirren Supporters Club is underway. [emoji1]

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

[W6er]

12 minutes ago, Tam M said:

We have a Ukrainian family staying with us, we got their wee boy a St Mirren top, so the Ukrainian St Mirren Supporters Club is underway.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk
 

That's great! What he needs to learn is that his president is worth $500 million and that the war is part of the Wolfowitz Doctrine outlined years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine

 

Quote

Hunter [Biden] was a director on the board of Burisma - a Ukrainian-owned private energy company while his father was the Obama administration's pointman on US-Ukrainian relations. Hunter was one of several foreigners on its board.

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-54553132

 

[ALBIONSAINT]

1 hour ago, W6er said:

That's great! What he needs to learn is that his president is worth $500 million and that the war is part of the Wolfowitz Doctrine outlined years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine

 

 

I would suggest that anyone looking to understand the current conflict should avail themselves with some knowledge of Holodomer and Babi Yar. They go a long way to explaining the current complex relationship between Russia and Ukraine. 

[W6er]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

I would suggest that anyone looking to understand the current conflict should avail themselves with some knowledge of Holodomer and Babi Yar. They go a long way to explaining the current complex relationship between Russia and Ukraine. 

I'm well aware of the Holodomor, sir! It happened as a result of the orders of Josef Stalin, a Georgian, whose policy was implemented by Lazar Kaganovich, a Yiddish speaking Jew. Millions of ethnic Russians were the victims of Stalin's policies, and so I am unsure why they should be held responsible for the actions of a Georgian and a Jew.

[Slarti]

I'm well aware of the Holodomor, sir! It happened as a result of the orders of Josef Stalin, a Georgian, whose policy was implemented by Lazar Kaganovich, a Yiddish speaking Jew. Millions of ethnic Russians were the victims of Stalin's policies, and so I am unsure why they should be held responsible for the actions of a Georgian and a Jew.

What has someone's religion got to do with it?

[truesaint]

10 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

I would suggest that anyone looking to understand the current conflict should avail themselves with some knowledge of Holodomer and Babi Yar. They go a long way to explaining the current complex relationship between Russia and Ukraine. 

What has lord of the rings and star wars got to do with it?

My bad, spelling error at this end. 

On a serious note Religion, Beliefs and Ethnicity always to seem to be the main reason for trouble. It has a lot to answer for in most of the world.

[W6er]

2 hours ago, Slarti said:

11 hours ago, W6er said:

I'm well aware of the Holodomor, sir! It happened as a result of the orders of Josef Stalin, a Georgian, whose policy was implemented by Lazar Kaganovich, a Yiddish speaking Jew. Millions of ethnic Russians were the victims of Stalin's policies, and so I am unsure why they should be held responsible for the actions of a Georgian and a Jew.

What has someone's religion got to do with it?

Ethnicity. Surely you're aware of the concept of secular Jews? I doubt he was very religious, being so senior in the Communist Party. Anyway, I'm merely pointing out that many Ukrainians have a pathological hatred of the Russians which they justify with the Holodomor, whilst the architects of that terrible period were not Russian. Communist brutality was not limited to the Ukraine, but happened all across the USSR and in China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba and North Korea.

Edited July 29, 2022 by W6er

[W6er]

2 hours ago, truesaint said:

What has lord of the rings and star wars got to do with it?

My bad, spelling error at this end. 

On a serious note Religion, Beliefs and Ethnicity always to seem to be the main reason for trouble. It has a lot to answer for in most of the world.

The Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia, etc were all secular states and between them killed approximately 100 million people. Nazi Germany was not religious, either.

Hitler was at best agnostic, and was obsessed by the idea of a Darwinian struggle where the weak should make way for the strong - eugenics, both on an individual level and in terms of ethnic groups. He did believe that religion is useful and his planned seemed to be to utilise Christianity  -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity - but change its tenets dramatically, as the idea that God's chosen people were the Jews and that He became incarnate as a Jew was always likely to stick in his craw a little. He also had a soft spot for Islam - https://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-ataturk-in-the-nazi-imagination-by-stefan-ihrig-and-islam-and-nazi-germanys-war-by-david-motadel-1421441724

Quote

‘It’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion,” Hitler complained to his pet architect Albert Speer. “Why did it have to be Christianity, with its meekness and flabbiness?” Islam was a Männerreligion—a “religion of men”—and hygienic too. The “soldiers of Islam” received a warrior’s heaven, “a real earthly paradise” with “houris” and “wine flowing.” This, Hitler argued, was much more suited to the “Germanic temperament” than the “Jewish filth and priestly twaddle” of Christianity.

So those bashing Christianity have something in common with Hitler... 

Edited July 29, 2022 by W6er

[ALBIONSAINT]

5 hours ago, W6er said:

The Soviet Union, Communist China, Cambodia, etc were all secular states and between them killed approximately 100 million people. Nazi Germany was not religious, either.

Hitler was at best agnostic, and was obsessed by the idea of a Darwinian struggle where the weak should make way for the strong - eugenics, both on an individual level and in terms of ethnic groups. He did believe that religion is useful and his planned seemed to be to utilise Christianity  -  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Christianity - but change its tenets dramatically, as the idea that God's chosen people were the Jews and that He became incarnate as a Jew was always likely to stick in his craw a little. He also had a soft spot for Islam - https://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-ataturk-in-the-nazi-imagination-by-stefan-ihrig-and-islam-and-nazi-germanys-war-by-david-motadel-1421441724

So those bashing Christianity have something in common with Hitler... 

Given the collaboration with Nazi germany by western Ukraine (yes even back then the were seeking independence) it was always going to result in a divided nation. Although Hitler was obsessed with eugenics, he was inspired and mentored in this theory by an Englishman (Houston Stewart Chamberlain) much of Hitler and the Nazi regime’s ideas around religion were focused on the occult and pre-Christian European folklore (hence the widespread use of the rune) 

[W6er]

53 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Given the collaboration with Nazi germany by western Ukraine (yes even back then the were seeking independence) it was always going to result in a divided nation. Although Hitler was obsessed with eugenics, he was inspired and mentored in this theory by an Englishman (Houston Stewart Chamberlain) much of Hitler and the Nazi regime’s ideas around religion were focused on the occult and pre-Christian European folklore (hence the widespread use of the rune) 

Yes, I was once conned into buying a book on Nazi occultism, but it was absolute rubbish. It's difficult to discern fact from fiction with Hitler and the Occult. Certainly there was widespread use of the runes and alleged bizarre rituals at Wewelsburg. How much of it is exaggerated is unclear, though.

Many Ukrainian nationalists appear to adore the Nazis, as they saw them as liberators, though they also don't appear to be antisemitic and are happy to be governed by Zelensky, who is Jewish. I think mostly it is a way of expressing anti-USSR sentiment, which is understandable. However what is utterly disgusting is how they have treated pro-Russians in their society, particularly since 2014.

I think this is the documentary I saw on it, though can't recall precisely:

 

 

[Slarti]

Ethnicity. Surely you're aware of the concept of secular Jews? I doubt he was very religious, being so senior in the Communist Party. Anyway, I'm merely pointing out that many Ukrainians have a pathological hatred of the Russians which they justify with the Holodomor, whilst the architects of that terrible period were not Russian. Communist brutality was not limited to the Ukraine, but happened all across the USSR and in China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba and North Korea.

Jew isn't an ethnicity.

[W6er]

2 minutes ago, Slarti said:

8 hours ago, W6er said:

Ethnicity. Surely you're aware of the concept of secular Jews? I doubt he was very religious, being so senior in the Communist Party. Anyway, I'm merely pointing out that many Ukrainians have a pathological hatred of the Russians which they justify with the Holodomor, whilst the architects of that terrible period were not Russian. Communist brutality was not limited to the Ukraine, but happened all across the USSR and in China, Cambodia, Vietnam, Cuba and North Korea.

Jew isn't an ethnicity.

https://support.ancestry.co.uk/s/article/European-Jewish-as-an-Ethnicity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions

 

[Slarti]

https://support.ancestry.co.uk/s/article/European-Jewish-as-an-Ethnicity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions
 

Yep, thanks for agreeing with me.

Oh, what do you mean you didn't read it?

[W6er]

8 minutes ago, Slarti said:

Yep, thanks for agreeing with me.

Oh, what do you mean you didn't read it?

I did read them, and they demonstrate that one can have Jewish DNA. But here's the Wikipedia page on Jews:

Quote

Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים, ISO 259-2: Yehudim, Israeli pronunciation: [jehuˈdim]) or Jewish people are an ethnoreligious group^[10] and nation^[11][12] originating from the Israelites^[13][14][15] and Hebrews^[16][17] of historical Israel and Judah. Jewish ethnicity, nationhood, and religion are strongly interrelated,^[18][19] as Judaism is the ethnic religion of the Jewish people, although its observance varies from strict to none.^[20][21]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews

The UK Supreme Court recognises Jewish people as an ethnic group: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2009-0105-judgment.pdf

Quote

There is no doubt that the Jewish people are an ethnic group within the meaning of the Race Relations Act 1976.

 

I thought everybody knew this, to be honest. Well, except for Whoopi Goldberg! 

[ALBIONSAINT]

4 hours ago, W6er said:

Yes, I was once conned into buying a book on Nazi occultism, but it was absolute rubbish. It's difficult to discern fact from fiction with Hitler and the Occult. Certainly there was widespread use of the runes and alleged bizarre rituals at Wewelsburg. How much of it is exaggerated is unclear, though.

Many Ukrainian nationalists appear to adore the Nazis, as they saw them as liberators, though they also don't appear to be antisemitic and are happy to be governed by Zelensky, who is Jewish. I think mostly it is a way of expressing anti-USSR sentiment, which is understandable. However what is utterly disgusting is how they have treated pro-Russians in their society, particularly since 2014.

I think this is the documentary I saw on it, though can't recall precisely:

 

 

 

 

[ALBIONSAINT]

The Nazi use of the Rune is still very much alive today in the neo-Nazi Azov brigade, the western media tend not to focus much on this aspect of Ukraine 

[W6er]

8 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

 

 

That was brilliant! Thank you for sharing.

 

[Slarti]

 
I did read them, and they demonstrate that one can have Jewish DNA.

Ok, maybe I should have said "understand" not "read" because it does no such thing.

[Slarti]

The Nazi use of the Rune is still very much alive today in the neo-Nazi Azov brigade, the western media tend not to focus much on this aspect of Ukraine 

Yeah, and what about all those nasty Hindus still using the swastika after the nazis usurped it. And all those Germans still using German. And ...

[Rascal]

It is said that the truth is the first casualty of war. No reason to disagree in this case.