Slarti Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 Me thinks you are being just a little disingenuous. You know for sure that people in any sector covered in the debate about diversity get together to form protest then project groups to improve their visibility and their impact on decision makers. Nothing unusual there. The gradual extension of the right to vote for all followed a similar path. I’m sure that you wouldn’t decry that. For me the main advantage of having diversity is the very fact that none of us can see things from every angle. As a friend put it …”If you think that there are no cliques, it’s because you are in the clique.” Let’s welcome groups with varying interests. Whilst football should not be political or religious there is every reason for it to favour inclusion. Show racism the red card is a case in point.^^^Aye, as I said, none of the arguments make sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 58 minutes ago, Slarti said: ^^^ Aye, as I said, none of the arguments make sense. In your opinion. No doubt you will be giving up your hard won right to vote in Government Elections. Thanks to pressure from groups the franchise has been widened. Most recently in NI and of course in Scotland. It’s called progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 In your opinion. No doubt you will be giving up your hard won right to vote in Government Elections. Thanks to pressure from groups the franchise has been widened. Most recently in NI and of course in Scotland. It’s called progress.Ok, I'll bite, what was the name of the group that campaigned for me to get the vote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Slarti said: 3 hours ago, Rascal said: In your opinion. No doubt you will be giving up your hard won right to vote in Government Elections. Thanks to pressure from groups the franchise has been widened. Most recently in NI and of course in Scotland. It’s called progress. Ok, I'll bite, what was the name of the group that campaigned for me to get the vote? Too many to mention and depended on what stage the various ginger groups had reached. As an example, male property owners first (even that took a lot longer in Northern Ireland, Female Emancipation, Non property owners, changes in the qualifying age to vote etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 Too many to mention and depended on what stage the various ginger groups had reached. As an example, male property owners first (even that took a lot longer in Northern Ireland, Female Emancipation, Non property owners, changes in the qualifying age to vote etc.Nobody's arguing about groups/individuals forcing governments etc to make changes, it's about what they call themselves and how, when they are striving to not be "differentiated against", they, themselves, point out their differences.When you look deep enough, most of these groups are not about equality at all they are about getting their "wee group" up with the "more privileged" and to hell with all the other "wee groups" who are also underprivileged.Personally, I'm all for equality, but I'm for equality for all, in all things - most of these groups aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, Slarti said: Nobody's arguing about groups/individuals forcing governments etc to make changes, it's about what they call themselves and how, when they are striving to not be "differentiated against", they, themselves, point out their differences. When you look deep enough, most of these groups are not about equality at all they are about getting their "wee group" up with the "more privileged" and to hell with all the other "wee groups" who are also underprivileged. Personally, I'm all for equality, but I'm for equality for all, in all things - most of these groups aren't. I do see where you are coming from Slarti. My take is that this is the next again stage. First campaigning , then proclaiming loudly, then just getting on with it. With most of these issues we seem to be at stages 1 or 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledfan Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 If you also look at my comments I'm not looking for the club to be campaign for anything as I don't think football should be political. All I want is our club to be a safe place for anyone to come support football and our club to do all it can to support this and take the opportunity to bring more fans into our club. Having an LGBT+ section is no different from north bank agro fans. It's a place where like minded people can enjoy supporting a football team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 If you also look at my comments I'm not looking for the club to be campaign for anything as I don't think football should be political. All I want is our club to be a safe place for anyone to come support football and our club to do all it can to support this and take the opportunity to bring more fans into our club. Having an LGBT+ section is no different from north bank agro fans. It's a place where like minded people can enjoy supporting a football team. Like minded???The Northbank or singing section or W7 or however you want to refer to it congregate to sing/make noise etc, what exactly will an LBGT+ section be congregating to do? Can't they just sit with their mates who aren't LBGT+? I don't think you've thought this through properly - or you're just at the windup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) Would we need a separate section for QI&A also , or are they simply fobbed off as + ? Edited March 23, 2022 by Callum Gilhooley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledfan Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Slarti said: Like minded??? The Northbank or singing section or W7 or however you want to refer to it congregate to sing/make noise etc, what exactly will an LBGT+ section be congregating to do? Can't they just sit with their mates who aren't LBGT+? I don't think you've thought this through properly - or you're just at the windup. I certainly have thought it through and most certainly not a wind up. What's wrong with a section where people can make new friends and may make more people visit the ground . Same would apply for a lady's section or any other area we would want. Family's go to the family stand there is no difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 I certainly have thought it through and most certainly not a wind up. What's wrong with a section where people can make new friends and may make more people visit the ground . Same would apply for a lady's section or any other area we would want. Family's go to the family stand there is no difference.Ok, let's have an LBGT+ section, an obese people's section, a "small person" section, a long legged people's section, a colour-blind people's section and a shull's aliases section.I also think you're being a bit patronising in assuming that LBGT+ people would automatically want to sit next to a bunch of other LBGT+ people. The point about inclusion is to include people, not segregate them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledfan Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, Slarti said: Ok, let's have an LBGT+ section, an obese people's section, a "small person" section, a long legged people's section, a colour-blind people's section and a shull's aliases section. I also think you're being a bit patronising in assuming that LBGT+ people would automatically want to sit next to a bunch of other LBGT+ people. The point about inclusion is to include people, not segregate them. Choice to sit there or not. I'm gay myself and would take opportunity for a LGBT+ supporters club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 Choice to sit there or not. I'm gay myself and would take opportunity for a LGBT+ supporters club. Right now you've got the ability to sit next to who you want to, why would you need a specific supporters club with a dedicated section? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exiledfan Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Slarti said: 44 minutes ago, exiledfan said: Choice to sit there or not. I'm gay myself and would take opportunity for a LGBT+ supporters club. Right now you've got the ability to sit next to who you want to, why would you need a specific supporters club with a dedicated section? Please read what has been written and think a little. I would like to see more inclusion as it's a good way for others making friends and increasing community spirit of the club. We all moan about the old firm getting more seats at the stadium. If through being more progressive and getting a wider fan base for every 100 fans we increase income by 30 k per year. Inclusion means safe areas no matter what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 My take on this for what it’s worth is that supporting a football club, in our case St Mirren, is about a shared identity through football. We are from and part of the community. All of the community should be able to freely identify with the club in ways that are meaningful to them, be it groups or individuals. For me, that is what inclusion and diversity is about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted March 23, 2022 Report Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, exiledfan said: Please read what has been written and think a little. I would like to see more inclusion as it's a good way for others making friends and increasing community spirit of the club. We all moan about the old firm getting more seats at the stadium. If through being more progressive and getting a wider fan base for every 100 fans we increase income by 30 k per year. Inclusion means safe areas no matter what you want. rascal put it in a much more succinct manner than I possibly could. He is correct. As he often is. The main interest in people going to support St Mirren is “going to support St Mirren”. If you go to watch and support St Mirren, then you are, indeed, increasing community spirit. And community, to my mind, means an inclusive community… almost, dare I say it, One Town, One Team. What could be more inclusive? You could claim otherwise, but that would be an attack on the espoused essence of our club - choosing to be outwith our community. One community, no matter how one describes oneself. I write this as a proud founder member of the Gay Society at a huge educational establishment in London. In the Seventies. We got it up and running. it was a success. I loved the discos and entertainment, I’m not gay. There had been no previous acceptance at the place, or in society at that time, that gay people existed. Or should be acknowledged to be part of our community, in general. That is no longer the case. It was a functional innovation to allow that section of the college to act as part of the whole, for the benefit of the whole… as well as themselves. It improved our college community. I loved the discos…. to be fair to my stereotypical indulgences… loadsa lassies.. brilliant dance music and bands. I doubt that such pushing at open doors is necessary, when it comes to being simply a St Mirren supporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 We already have a “moaning bastards section”. What happens if you are MBS and also qualify for LGBT+ status too? Do we have MBS+LGBT+? What if you are LGBT+ but vehemently anti-MBS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 6 hours ago, SuperSaints1877 said: We already have a “moaning bastards section”. What happens if you are MBS and also qualify for LGBT+ status too? Do we have MBS+LGBT+? What if you are LGBT+ but vehemently anti-MBS? I guess it’s called accommodation where each part accepts that their similarities and core purpose ( supporting St Mirren) enable these diverse groups or people to coexist in harmony on the core purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 40 minutes ago, Rascal said: I guess it’s called accommodation where each part accepts that their similarities and core purpose ( supporting St Mirren) enable these diverse groups or people to coexist in harmony on the core purpose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, SuperSaints1877 said: Jings. What was either controversial or boring about that, unless of course you don’t agree with the concept of society . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 Please read what has been written and think a little. I would like to see more inclusion as it's a good way for others making friends and increasing community spirit of the club. We all moan about the old firm getting more seats at the stadium. If through being more progressive and getting a wider fan base for every 100 fans we increase income by 30 k per year. Inclusion means safe areas no matter what you want. I have read what has been written and I think your idea is flawed. The whole stadium should be safe for everyone, irrespective of how they identify.If you want an LGBT+ supporters group then start one, simple as that. Don't expect the club to give you a designated area, though, as there are areas already that have little/no season ticket holders and your group can easily get season tickets for one of them and also have space for non-ST holders to join you.Being inclusive does not mean having designated areas for this group and that group, that's divisive, not inclusive.W7 isn't comparable as one of the reasons that was set up was to allow them to stand and not interfere with other supporters' views. One of the reasons for the family stand is safety for the kids, so that's not comparable either - unless you don't think LGBT+ people are safe in the stadium, in which case you should put our concerns to the club and/or SMiSA. Anyone can get a ticket for either of those areas (afaik) but, if they do, they shouldn't really complain about having their view blocked or being pulled up for swearing. The areas are about what you can/can't do in them, not about who can go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 Jings. What was either controversial or boring about that, unless of course you don’t agree with the concept of society .The post you replied to was a joke. It didn't need a reply at all, unless you wanted to expand on it or otherwise add to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 We already have a “moaning bastards section”. What happens if you are MBS and also qualify for LGBT+ status too? Do we have MBS+LGBT+? What if you are LGBT+ but vehemently anti-MBS? You could have LGBT+(-MBS) = LGBT-MBS = B(LGT-MS)Just a suggestion. [emoji16] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 Is this the wrong time to say I’m Aboriginal and feel left out coz the club won’t didgeridoo a thing to make me feel included ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted March 24, 2022 Report Share Posted March 24, 2022 Is this the wrong time to say I’m Aboriginal and feel left out coz the club won’t didgeridoo a thing to make me feel included ? Nope, it's the perfect time. [emoji16] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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