How much longer do we give the manager

[Rascal]

3 minutes ago, CraigyBoy said:

WTF !!!

This is exactly the same squad of players who went 11 games without a win , spanning almost 3 months - in that period we played 3 of the bottom 6 at home,  winning feck all and got turned over by the worst team in the league ( Dundee) and then got f**kin destroyed in sheepland when they scored 4 going on 8 !!!!...

So, are current results good - are they f**k 

Is some of this down to SR - absolutely 

However,  these players have VERY recent history of going on long runs of playing shite..

To say this current run of results is attributed to SR alone is very short sighted ..

Loan players and those out of contract are In some cases already thinking about their next destination. 

Let's hope we can cobble together enough points,  which I believe we will to stay up

SR will be judged after a summer transfer window 

  

I am in your camp sir. 

[rabuddies]

Rascal, will you stop talking sense.  It's out of place in this thread.

[WeeBud]

8 minutes ago, CraigyBoy said:

WTF !!!

This is exactly the same squad of players who went 11 games without a win , spanning almost 3 months - in that period we played 3 of the bottom 6 at home,  winning feck all and got turned over by the worst team in the league ( Dundee) and then got f**kin destroyed in sheepland when they scored 4 going on 8 !!!!...

So, are current results good - are they f**k 

Is some of this down to SR - absolutely 

However,  these players have VERY recent history of going on long runs of playing shite..

To say this current run of results is attributed to SR alone is very short sighted ..

Loan players and those out of contract are In some cases already thinking about their next destination. 

Let's hope we can cobble together enough points,  which I believe we will to stay up

SR will be judged after a summer transfer window 

  

I agree with some of this CB however we still managed to accrue 6 points in that 11 game spell so only 5 defeats (2 of them to Rangers), it wasn't great but imo this is worse. I haven't called for SR's head but this doesn't have a good feel to it.

[TopCat]

17 minutes ago, CraigyBoy said:

WTF !!!

This is exactly the same squad of players who went 11 games without a win , spanning almost 3 months - in that period we played 3 of the bottom 6 at home,  winning feck all and got turned over by the worst team in the league ( Dundee) and then got f**kin destroyed in sheepland when they scored 4 going on 8 !!!!...

So, are current results good - are they f**k 

Is some of this down to SR - absolutely 

However,  these players have VERY recent history of going on long runs of playing shite..

To say this current run of results is attributed to SR alone is very short sighted ..

Loan players and those out of contract are In some cases already thinking about their next destination. 

Let's hope we can cobble together enough points,  which I believe we will to stay up

SR will be judged after a summer transfer window 

  

Yeah these runs aren't the same though, this run is much, much worse. In this famous 11 game winless run we drew six and lost five games, a bad run certainly, but it's not the losing every week run we have now. That's the results there, four of the games against teams in the top three.  Drawing games against Livi (who scored a late equaliser) Saintees, Hibs and County is not great, but it's better than losing them, which is what we do now. I'd argue the Celtic and Motherwell games were two of the best performances of the season.  Even when we weren't playing well, we were always in games and digging out valuable points. And of course the run was book ended by fantastic winning form before and after, which is why we were 4th on PPG and in the quarter final of the cup the day Jim left. 

Losing at Pittodrie is nothing new and certainly not unexpected, the scoreline was a bad one but it did flatter them. The real stinker was Dundee, and that was an undeniably bad performance. They got an early goal from nothing then sat back, and we couldn't get through. Incidentally those two defeats were the only games we lost to teams outside the top three in all competitions all season, till Robinson arrived. Since then he's played five games against teams outside the top three and lost four of them!

[CraigyBoy]

4 minutes ago, TopCat said:

Yeah these runs aren't the same though, this run is much, much worse. In this famous 11 game winless run we drew six and lost five games, a bad run certainly, but it's not the losing every week run we have now. That's the results there, four of the games against teams in the top three.  Drawing games against Livi (who scored a late equaliser) Saintees, Hibs and County is not great, but it's better than losing them, which is what we do now. I'd argue the Celtic and Motherwell games were two of the best performances of the season.  Even when we weren't playing well, we were always in games and digging out valuable points. And of course the run was book ended by fantastic winning form before and after, which is why we were 4th on PPG and in the quarter final of the cup the day Jim left. 

Losing at Pittodrie is nothing new and certainly not unexpected, the scoreline was a bad one but it did flatter them. The real stinker was Dundee, and that was an undeniably bad performance. They got an early goal from nothing then sat back, and we couldn't get through. Incidentally those two defeats were the only games we lost to teams outside the top three in all competitions all season, till Robinson arrived. Since then he's played five games against teams outside the top three and lost four of them!

As said previously- i am not defending this run , it's  a bloody shocker & certainly worrying... But,  I do object to the constant diatribe against the manager whilst the playing staff who have demonstrated this season they are "streaky" at best seem to  escape scrutiny 🤷🤷. You can slice & dice each part of our season to suit whatever agenda you have ,in isolation we go from being the worst team in the league to the best team in the league,  in fact we are neither.  But 2 separate managers have now presided over absolutely shocking runs and that ,to me,  definitely highlights major player deficiencies.

[TopCat]

12 minutes ago, CraigyBoy said:

As said previously- i am not defending this run , it's  a bloody shocker & certainly worrying... But,  I do object to the constant diatribe against the manager whilst the playing staff who have demonstrated this season they are "streaky" at best seem to  escape scrutiny 🤷🤷. You can slice & dice each part of our season to suit whatever agenda you have ,in isolation we go from being the worst team in the league to the best team in the league,  in fact we are neither.  But 2 separate managers have now presided over absolutely shocking runs and that ,to me,  definitely highlights major player deficiencies.

But they haven't though. Six draws and five defeats is not a shocking run. It's a bad run, but we still aren't losing most games. Eight defeats out of nine certainly is a shocking run. You must see that the current run under Robinson is much worse than the run from October to December?

[Cumbriansaint72]

22 minutes ago, CraigyBoy said:

As said previously- i am not defending this run , it's  a bloody shocker & certainly worrying... But,  I do object to the constant diatribe against the manager whilst the playing staff who have demonstrated this season they are "streaky" at best seem to  escape scrutiny 🤷🤷. You can slice & dice each part of our season to suit whatever agenda you have ,in isolation we go from being the worst team in the league to the best team in the league,  in fact we are neither.  But 2 separate managers have now presided over absolutely shocking runs and that ,to me,  definitely highlights major player deficiencies.

Agree with the player bit BUT unfortunately in the SPL there seems to be a 3 tier system to attracting players and we are in the bottom category. The big 2 will always attract better players, then there is hearts,hibs, aberdeen. Then the rest.

Unfortunately it is down to managers to get the best or not out of what the club can attract.

We had a mentality that we could always get something out of a game and big Joe certainly typified that.

Now we look beaten as soon as the game kicks off.

And thats down to the manager.

[bringbackobika]

2 hours ago, W6er said:

That cannot be true. He's got one goal to his name in the league this season...

He’s on £1500 a week 

Edited April 25, 2022 by bringbackobika

[bringbackobika]

10 minutes ago, bringbackobika said:

He’s on £1500 a week 

I just checked this because I did think that £2000 a week was ridiculous. That means he’s earning nearly £80,000 a year. Even that is a massive waste of money for a player like him. I say we ship him off and use that money towards trying to sign Ronan 

[stlucifer]

5 hours ago, WeeBud said:

You keep going back to this.......Goodwin got the gig at Aberdeen because the previous manager was sacked for under-performing and Goodwin, rightly or wrongly, was seen to be doing a good job with us. Robinson got our job in totally different circumstances and, so far, has made an absolute hash of it.

Look at that in reverse.

Goodwin got the gig because the previous incumbent was sacked for doing a shit job. Goodwin never got the professed "new manager bounce".

Robinson got the gig because the previous incumbent, after talking players into signing for HIM, walked out on them leaving them with a manager they didn't know or possibly want.

Given the fact, even through our winning spell, we weren't setting the heather on fire. I would say our situation was far more likely to transpire no matter how reasonable the new guy was and the Aberdeen fans may be rueing the day McInnes was sacked.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I just checked this because I did think that £2000 a week was ridiculous. That means he’s earning nearly £80,000 a year. Even that is a massive waste of money for a player like him. I say we ship him off and use that money towards trying to sign Ronan 

Go on, please tell or show us where you got this info

[munoz]

12 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Go on, please tell or show us where you got this info

I've heard the exact same from a very reliable source. 

I haven't seen his contract though, so could be shite.

[DougJamie]

4 hours ago, faraway saint said:

 

Oh, lol is SO yesterday. 😉

In the case is SR lol too much to ask for 😉

[Rascal]

1 hour ago, stlucifer said:

Look at that in reverse.

Goodwin got the gig because the previous incumbent was sacked for doing a shit job. Goodwin never got the professed "new manager bounce".

Robinson got the gig because the previous incumbent, after talking players into signing for HIM, walked out on them leaving them with a manager they didn't know or possibly want.

Given the fact, even through our winning spell, we weren't setting the heather on fire. I would say our situation was far more likely to transpire no matter how reasonable the new guy was and the Aberdeen fans may be rueing the day McInnes was sacked.

 

Makes sense to me

[Cookie Monster]

Look at that in reverse.
Goodwin got the gig because the previous incumbent was sacked for doing a shit job. Goodwin never got the professed "new manager bounce".
Robinson got the gig because the previous incumbent, after talking players into signing for HIM, walked out on them leaving them with a manager they didn't know or possibly want.
Given the fact, even through our winning spell, we weren't setting the heather on fire. I would say our situation was far more likely to transpire no matter how reasonable the new guy was and the Aberdeen fans may be rueing the day McInnes was sacked.
 

You thought that Oran got sacked for doing a shit job?

[antrin]

13 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

You thought that Oran got sacked for doing a shit job?

Did JG replace Oran at Aiberdeen?  

[Cookie Monster]

Did JG replace Oran at Aiberdeen?  

Dohh

[Rascal]

14 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

You thought that Oran got sacked for doing a shit job?

The essence of the post is valid IMO but I don’t blame JG for taking an opportunity to make more money at an admittedly, bigger club. I was and am still a fan of the big man both as a player and as a manager. He could be stubborn in his perseverance with a playing system that many were saying wouldn’t work with the players he had but eventually he made changes. Results were up and down as with all but three of the 12 clubs. SR came into the situation where he had to win over the players and the fans who had just lost a fans favourite as manager. The facts are that both JG and SR have struggled to get results. Both clubs are in danger of 2nd bottom place. Aberdeen have sacked two managers. Might they make that a third this season if they are relegated? For JG’s sake I hope not. SR I think (and I could well be wrong) will still be here even if that happens to us and ,as with Glass and Goodwin at Aberdeen, JG and Robinson would have some responsibility with Glass and Goodwin having made decisions on players and playing squads, players out on loan etc. Best JG and SR just get on with the job and get the points they both need to avoid relegation or the playoffs. I don’t fancy a situation where both Aberdeen and St Mirren need 1 point in the final game to avoid the playoffs. Now that would be interesting.

[W6er]

17 hours ago, CraigyBoy said:

As said previously- i am not defending this run , it's  a bloody shocker & certainly worrying... But,  I do object to the constant diatribe against the manager whilst the playing staff who have demonstrated this season they are "streaky" at best seem to  escape scrutiny 🤷🤷. You can slice & dice each part of our season to suit whatever agenda you have ,in isolation we go from being the worst team in the league to the best team in the league,  in fact we are neither.  But 2 separate managers have now presided over absolutely shocking runs and that ,to me,  definitely highlights major player deficiencies.

What you are doing is comparing the worst run under Jim Goodwin this season to all of Robinson's results! Yet despite your best efforts, @TopCat still demonstrates that Goodwin's worse run is better than Robinson's form. The latter also had the benefit of knowing what tactics had worked for Goodwin, let us not forget.

Three of the matches in Goodwin's 'shocking' run included games against the Old Firm! Yet still we only lost five times in the entirety of the eleven games.

[Slarti]

I usually try to avoid subjective matters on here but surely the time to compare "worst tuns" would be, at a minimum, when the runs are of equal length. SR could end up with 3, 4, 5, 6 or 9 points from 11 games. Would he then be automatically 50/66.6/83.3/100/150% the manager JG is?

I await all the replies which are consistent with the replier's pre-held position but which read into this things that I haven't mentioned.

In reality, no 2 runs are directly comparable, yet people still do it. I know WHY they do it, I'm just always confused about why they think it proves anything meaningful.

[TopCat]

12 minutes ago, Slarti said:

I usually try to avoid subjective matters on here but surely the time to compare "worst tuns" would be, at a minimum, when the runs are of equal length. SR could end up with 3, 4, 5, 6 or 9 points from 11 games. Would he then be automatically 50/66.6/83.3/100/150% the manager JG is?

I await all the replies which are consistent with the replier's pre-held position but which read into this things that I haven't mentioned.

In reality, no 2 runs are directly comparable, yet people still do it. I know WHY they do it, I'm just always confused about why they think it proves anything meaningful.
 

Well you could pick the worst eight game run from that eleven game sequence and it's still more than the three points that Robinson has got. You're right though, they aren't really comparable. Particularly now when we are in post split world and we are coming up against the worst other five teams in the league, and three of them are at home. Robinson has so far delivered a worse run than Goodwin's worst, with an easier set of games. 

[W6er]

1 hour ago, Slarti said:

I usually try to avoid subjective matters on here but surely the time to compare "worst tuns" would be, at a minimum, when the runs are of equal length. SR could end up with 3, 4, 5, 6 or 9 points from 11 games. Would he then be automatically 50/66.6/83.3/100/150% the manager JG is?

I await all the replies which are consistent with the replier's pre-held position but which read into this things that I haven't mentioned.

In reality, no 2 runs are directly comparable, yet people still do it. I know WHY they do it, I'm just always confused about why they think it proves anything meaningful.
 

Well if you take your point and reach the logical conclusion, then no two managers should ever be compared because they will have different squads, backroom staff, injury problems, weather, etc.

So what you're saying is, even if Robinson's team doesn't win single game this season and we're relegated, he cannot be compared to Jim as there are too many variables.  

Jim's worst run was 6 points from 11 games (inc. 3 versus Old Firm) = 0.545 points per game (PPG)

Robinson's entire record is 3 points from 8 league games = 0.375 (PPG)

This is, don't forget, comparing Jim's WORST run with Robinson's entire record. Jim lost 7 games in 25 matches, Robinson has lost 7 games in 8 matches (plus a Scottish Cup defeat).

Say what you like, but Robinson's record is objectively worse.

[Slarti]

1 hour ago, TopCat said:

Well you could pick the worst eight game run from that eleven game sequence and it's still more than the three points that Robinson has got. You're right though, they aren't really comparable. Particularly now when we are in post split world and we are coming up against the worst other five teams in the league, and three of them are at home. Robinson has so far delivered a worse run than Goodwin's worst, with an easier set of games. 

Why 8?  Why not 7?  Or 4?  Or why don't we just take the best 1 game "run" from the larger runs?  Anybody can be selective and use data to "support" their point.  SR could end up with 1.25 PPG, Goodwin was on 1.27 PPG (this season) when he left, would that make them about even?  The point is that it doesn't matter what you compare, absolutely nothing is directly comparable as absolutely nothing can be taken in isolation.  Well, it can be, but it shouldn't be.  Comparisons can give you a rough idea, but they prove nothing in situations like this.  Even your comment about an easier set of games is debatable, unless you take into account everything surrounding the games.  On paper, yes, in reality, not so much.

[TopCat]

3 hours ago, Slarti said:

Why 8?  Why not 7?  Or 4?  Or why don't we just take the best 1 game "run" from the larger runs?  Anybody can be selective and use data to "support" their point.  SR could end up with 1.25 PPG, Goodwin was on 1.27 PPG (this season) when he left, would that make them about even?  The point is that it doesn't matter what you compare, absolutely nothing is directly comparable as absolutely nothing can be taken in isolation.  Well, it can be, but it shouldn't be.  Comparisons can give you a rough idea, but they prove nothing in situations like this.  Even your comment about an easier set of games is debatable, unless you take into account everything surrounding the games.  On paper, yes, in reality, not so much.

Might aswell do away with league tables then if nothing is directly comparable 😆

So if Robinson wins his last four games (he won't) against teams from the bottom half he will still have a lower PPG than Goodwin? My word, never realised it was that bad!

[stlucifer]

22 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

You thought that Oran got sacked for doing a shit job?

To clarify... If I have to... The ABERDEEN JOB. I thought that was obvious given I mentioned McInnes.