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No more 2 Stands for Celtic and Rangers


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2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Why shouldn’t it be put to a SMISA vote for guidance on fan view? Makes sense to me for the following reasons. 
 

- It’s unlikely their voting outcome would differ from the wider St Mirren support.

- Any St Mirren fan can join SMISA & participate in such votes.

-SMISA are the majority owners of SMFC, their elected representatives have the right to make these decisions and the right to engage their membership numbers in guiding them on such decisions. 
 

- It would be no different to giving a vote to season ticket holders, they also represent a ‘minority’ of St Mirren fans. 

I don't agree that season ticket holders are the "minority" they are surely most impacted by Amy decisions and I would expect that the season ticket price will go up to compensate.

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36 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:


 

 


So how wide do you suggest that the discussion should be open to?

 

Ownership clouds the issue here. That isn’t in dispute. The board has the power to make the decisions involved. As to who should be canvassed or how that is an open question. The question there is who, other than the owners are important to the club and it’s future as the local community football club. In other words this is an opportunity to define who stakeholders are across the board and how and when should each group be - take your pick- kept up to date or their views sought before decisions. If my memory serves me right the basic component parts of stakeholder management analysis and systems breaks people/groups into Power, Interest and Predictably. Once agreed the system can be easily be updated and adapted. Some of this is already in place.

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There are two basic arguments involved here. 1. I don’t want to be a part owner and I don’t want to be part of the internal decision making process. 2. I am a regular customer and normally, good practice would dictate that the owners, board and management consider it important to seek the views of those who create the core revenue stream for the business. Are you suggesting that fan ownership somehow makes that unnecessary? Surely not?
I'll try again, So how wide do YOU suggest that the discussion should be open to?
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I’ve been reading serious discussion that… in order to stop cut down on bottle chucking, aggression and other unsavoury incidents… both of the twin buttocks are considering giving NO SEATS and no entrance to each other’s fans.

if THEY can see how unsavoury their fans are, then surely St Mirren’s “leaders” can see the shite for what it is, too.

Shite, that shouldn’t darken Paisley's stadium doors.

 

Edited by antrin
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15 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:
1 hour ago, Rascal said:
There are two basic arguments involved here. 1. I don’t want to be a part owner and I don’t want to be part of the internal decision making process. 2. I am a regular customer and normally, good practice would dictate that the owners, board and management consider it important to seek the views of those who create the core revenue stream for the business. Are you suggesting that fan ownership somehow makes that unnecessary? Surely not?

I'll try again, So how wide do YOU suggest that the discussion should be open to?

He's busy searching for Peter Godfreys contract of work. :lol:

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7 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:
1 hour ago, Rascal said:
There are two basic arguments involved here. 1. I don’t want to be a part owner and I don’t want to be part of the internal decision making process. 2. I am a regular customer and normally, good practice would dictate that the owners, board and management consider it important to seek the views of those who create the core revenue stream for the business. Are you suggesting that fan ownership somehow makes that unnecessary? Surely not?

I'll try again, So how wide do YOU suggest that the discussion should be open to?

And I will give you the same answer. The board need to put in place a rigorous system of Stakeholder Management. To do that it needs to make decisions on who has power, who has interest and who is or isn’t predictable. Then they work out how best to communicate with each of the individuals or groups once mapping has been completed. What I think you want me to do is to suggest who should be where in that matrix eg. SMISA, Kibble, Fans, Community or others should be in that and how they should be (if at all) consulted on this. I suspect that a broad element of this has been taken into account by the working group who are, I would imagine, talented and experienced in business. No need to try and teach them to suck eggs, I wouldn’t think.  Doesn’t mean that some or even a lot of people will agree with how they have gone about it this time. My point is about having a robust and transparent system for the future. This issue provides an excellent pilot.one that Interests Many.some of whom are Predictable but many aren’t and in which few of us currently have power ( improved some would say with fan ownership)

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The problem with canvassing fans is knowing who you are contacting, Season Ticket holders and SMiSA members are documented, the general populace of St Mirren fans not so much. So how do you go about contacting those that fans that fall outside of the two known groups without attracting mischief makers wanting to skew the result. Tricky one to get right, undoubtedly going to miss a section of the fan base however you do it.
Documented?

Not pre season we weren't.


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5 hours ago, alanb said:

The working party will decide ie the board

SMiSA settled for fan ownership “ lite “ and are no longer independent and facilitated outside influences affecting club 

Any vote would be only an opinion poll

Only SMiSA vote the board cares for are those that approved spending funds ( currently suspended)

Hope the members board repair removes my name

 

SMISA membership are a massive part of our fan owned club. They are paying members and the lifeblood of SMISA. 
 

It would be extremely unlikely that, if they went down the voting path, the outcome would not be honoured. 
 

As for fan ownership lite, that’s just nonsense. We are a fan owned club, we bought the club & we secured it in the hands of the people that care most about SMFC, the fans. 
 

SMISA members voted on the final model, and we should respect that democracy. Wanting your name removed from the members boards sounds like sour grapes to me. 

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SMISA membership are a massive part of our fan owned club. They are paying members and the lifeblood of SMISA. 
 
It would be extremely unlikely that, if they went down the voting path, the outcome would not be honoured. 
 
As for fan ownership lite, that’s just nonsense. We are a fan owned club, we bought the club & we secured it in the hands of the people that care most about SMFC, the fans. 
 
SMISA members voted on the final model, and we should respect that democracy. Wanting your name removed from the members boards sounds like sour grapes to me. 
Not "fan owned"!

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3 hours ago, exiledfan said:

I don't agree that season ticket holders are the "minority" they are surely most impacted by Amy decisions and I would expect that the season ticket price will go up to compensate.

Of course they are, it’s beyond doubt there are far more St Mirren fans that aren’t season ticket holders than are. We have fans all over the world & Renfrewshire has a population of over 170,000. I certainly know more non-season ticket holding St Mirren fans than those that have one. Imagine many do. 
 

Letting the SMISA membership or the season ticket holder populations decide is pretty much one in the same to me. I would be very surprised if their views aren’t aligned. There will be significant crossover in the populations as it is.  
 

But again, if SMISA were to put the vote to members, all SMFC fans have the opportunity to participate in that vote by joining. It’s also their right to do that as the owners of the club. 

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So who isn't.
An organisation isn't a fan so technically, as neither SMiSA or Kibble are fans, the vast majority of shares are not owned by fans.

You could possibly, in a round about way, make a case for SMiSA as it is a fans organisation but definitely not Kibble.

As for the smaller shareholders, even though the original purchaser was probably a fan, the status of the current shareholders is anyone's guess (though probably mainly still fans).

Hope that helps.
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An organisation isn't a fan so technically, as neither SMiSA or Kibble are fans, the vast majority of shares are not owned by fans.

You could possibly, in a round about way, make a case for SMiSA as it is a fans organisation but definitely not Kibble.

As for the smaller shareholders, even though the original purchaser was probably a fan, the status of the current shareholders is anyone's guess (though probably mainly still fans).

Hope that helps.
Remind me what SMISA stands for.

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7 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

What percentage of shares is owned by Kibble?

Is Kibble, as an entity, a St Mirren "fan"?



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St Mirren fans bought the club, the Kibble complement our fan ownership model.
 

We voted, you lost, get over it.  
 

SMFC - fan owned :) 

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