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OPEN LETTER TO THE BOARD AND ANYONE ELSE


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The financial numbers don’t lie. The words are just filler no doubt lifted from our annual account summary. 
The numbers don't lie, but they alone don't tell where the money came from, hence the "explanations" that you posted at the end. Those explanations do not back you up. You never read them properly, did you?
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The survey is out, there is good details in there and plenty of opportunity for fans who have said they’d pay extra to keep the bigots out of the two stands to contribute. 
 

My concern is it will have to be season on season & I don’t know how sustainable it is to ask for all that extra money every year from fans. 
 

For me, I doubt I will contribute more than I already do & voted in favour of keeping the two stands for the bigot brothers should the extra funds not be raised. 

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Just completed my form. Sounds like between a rock and a hard place in terms of the finances. Understand fans frustration in giving up a stand to the old firm but I honestly believe that we would struggle to fill the family stand from previous experience of the old firm games. The hostility felt by fans often runs to just plain refusing to attend these games anyway. So do we bite the bullet and accept a lower budget for the squad..... Asking non ST holders to pay more for these games I don't believe will make up the shortfall and more likely discourage attendance. Paying the extra £30 on your season ticket may be acceptable for some but not a long term solution in encouraging ST uptake either.

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Regarding the Chairman’s e-mail - I would think that with the OF choirs in both ends of the ground, and judging by the current season ticket holders I know,  it is more likely that this season there may be 300 LESS season tickets sold. If you don’t want to go to the OF games then it makes less financial sense to buy a season ticket. That is a thin edge of a very dangerous financial wedge. Fans without season tickets will possibly start to pick and chose their other games, not just the OF ones . The cost of living is soaring, energy bills are about to triple for some folk. Heat, eat or go to the game? In marketing terms, anything leading to the loss of season ticket holders is a very bad idea.

I have no intention of paying, in effect, a ransom payment of £30 to “help retain the Tony Fitzpatrick stand for the home supporters”. In any case I actually have no idea how that would work in practice.

The help “a buddie scheme” does not seem to relate in any way to the OF stand issue. The “two match ticket bundles” are welcome but add a further complication to things.

I wonder how the budget for this season can be “already set” since the Club has no idea of the extent of its income from Cup runs or its final league place or 101 other variables. I as understand it, one final place higher in the league may cover the loss of income from restricting the OF fans to one end of the ground.

A “family club” does not move its families from their usual seats to rent them out on a temporary basis to a bunch of folk who still live their lives in the 1690’s. With the exception of W7 the age profile of the Club’s supporters is frankly – old and getting older. We need more families and young supporters. What we don’t need is having to explain to our younger children who King Billy was and what his relationship was with the then Pope.

 

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37 minutes ago, woiiftm said:

Anyone else feel theirs a wee implication in survey, that it'll be our fault we get a poor team if we don't agree to OF staying in both stands?

No, vote what way you wish.

Weather or not we get a fair result is open to options. 

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This survey is a smoke screen riddled with "fear factor" and teflon shoulders. It's a thinly veiled threat. It is, as I previously said, lazy management. Asking the supporters to solve the riddle rather than looking at other means of increasing revenue. As for those people on here suggesting we, as supporters, should have to bring ideas to the table without inside knowledge. That's just ridiculous. The tail is trying to wag the dog here. The custodians of the club know the thoughts and feelings of the support. They know there seems to be a major issue about throwing families out of their seats to accomodate a degenerate mob of fans. It's up to them to solve this problem or the consequence could be far reaching when they see the number of previously loyals Season ticket holders dwindling.

I reiterate. It's NOT up to us, the customers, to come up with solutions. The very fact the club are asking for solutions tells us there is a problem so, Mr. Chhairman and the rest of the board. FIX IT.

Edited by stlucifer
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On 5/28/2022 at 8:53 AM, stlucifer said:

This survey is a smoke screen riddled with "fear factor" and teflon shoulders. It's a thinly veiled threat. It is, as I previously said, lazy management. Asking the supporters to solve the riddle rather than looking at other means of increasing revenue. As for those people on here suggesting we, as supporters, should have to bring ideas to the table without inside knowledge. That's just ridiculous. The tail is trying to wag the dog here. The custodians of the club know the thoughts and feelings of the support. They know there seems to be a major issue about throwing families out of their seats to accomodate a degenerate mob of fans. It's up to them to solve this problem or the consequence could be far reaching when they see the number of previously loyals Season ticket holders dwindling.

I reiterate. It's NOT up to us, the customers, to come up with solutions. The very fact the club are asking for solutions tells us there is a problem so, Mr. Chhairman and the rest of the board. FIX IT.

👏 

We are informed that the custodians are fans. Maybe the prawn sandwiches have forgotten what its like to be in the body of the support.

Selling out to the easy pound is not the solution. Building a long term strategy to increase season ticket holders, revenue streams and sustainability in the club is the solution. Basil has gone to great lengths to shoot down many of the ideas put forward because they are not the golden goose. However ideas need work, effort and momentum to grow. Our ideas seem limited to putting the responsibility of the filling of the stands or substituting the revenue to the current fan base they already have.

 

 

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On 5/28/2022 at 8:53 AM, stlucifer said:

This survey is a smoke screen riddled with "fear factor" and teflon shoulders. It's a thinly veiled threat. It is, as I previously said, lazy management. Asking the supporters to solve the riddle rather than looking at other means of increasing revenue. As for those people on here suggesting we, as supporters, should have to bring ideas to the table without inside knowledge. That's just ridiculous. The tail is trying to wag the dog here. The custodians of the club know the thoughts and feelings of the support. They know there seems to be a major issue about throwing families out of their seats to accomodate a degenerate mob of fans. It's up to them to solve this problem or the consequence could be far reaching when they see the number of previously loyals Season ticket holders dwindling.

I reiterate. It's NOT up to us, the customers, to come up with solutions. The very fact the club are asking for solutions tells us there is a problem so, Mr. Chhairman and the rest of the board. FIX IT.

The quickest and easiest fix of all, rather than saying 'please give us £30 more each to fill the budget gap' would be to reclaim some of said budget gap by offering season tickets to those in the Fitzpatrick stand at the current pricing not to include OF games or at the same pricing as the West stand to include those matches. That way you aren't asking supporters who have already incurred an extra £30 increase in ticket prices already this season to pay a further £30 for the incentive of only having half the amount of scummy types in the ground as we've grown accustomed to.

In addition, the club has become exceptionally strong in the years since giving up 2 stands to the OF at securing new sponsorship deals. We announce at least 1-2 every season and I daresay our new CEO is almost certainly out within the community trying to drum up and source new income streams for the club. This is something that any constantly evolving business does and should continue to do, so it really does irritate that regardless of the outcome of such business ventures, we are still being asked to foot the bill for what is a reasonable request in that our own season ticket holders wants and needs are actually put ahead of Rangers or Celtic supporters.

The whole scenario just strikes me as lazy by the club. Supporters have long asked for this to happen - it's something that is important to many supporters who feel it is a vital part of promoting our club within the town rather than just selling it out  and instead of the club taking this on board and adjusting the budget to suit or looking for other streams of income to offset, it's went straight to 'well you want it, you pay for it. So give us more money to justify it right now'.

 

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What seems to be agreed by all is that 3 Stands occupied by home fans would be the desired outcome and ideally would be my choice. I agree with charging visiting fans what their clubs would charge our fans for attending their ground. That seems fair and should apply to all clubs visiting Paisley where their charges exceed ours. Why not reduce the cost for these games for home fans coming to these games as a family or group to help populate the family stand? If the first action generates more income and the second helps build our crowds, especially with young people then why not? Just a thought.

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Has the possibility ever been looked into for selling that large canvas on the dome as advertising space?

JD sports clearly thought it was financially worth the while to advertise on it. We should be reaching out to local businesses such as hotels, car hire places etc to get their name on the dome and get eyes on them as people are landing. Even advertising on the roof of the stadium would be unintrusive, easy to do and a good use of the space and location we are in.

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3 hours ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

👏

We are informed that the custodians are fans. Maybe the prawn sandwiches have forgotten what its like to be in the body of the support.

Selling out to the easy pound is not the solution. Building a long term strategy to increase season ticket holders, revenue streams and sustainability in the club is the solution. Basil has gone to great lengths to shoot down many of the ideas put forward because they are not the golden goose. However ideas need work, effort and momentum to grow. Our ideas seem limited to putting the responsibility of the filling of the stands or substituting the revenue to the current fan base they already have.

 

 

100% agree.

The biggest source of increased income for any business is referrals from existing customers! 

Keep them happy and the referrals come.

Incremental improvements are sustainable and not as dependent on form, which we know only too well wavers! 

Small improvements should never be dismissed.

Some people are just afraid to open their minds incase the surviving brain cell falls out! 

After all... If it was that easy, every other club would be doing it.

Edited.

If it was that easy, every other club our size would be doing it! 🤐😜

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The directors are responsible for the running of the club. To put responsibility onto the fans regarding the family stand is an abdication of responsibility. To ask us to pay more to make up for their decisions is unforgivable. Since this was introduced home support in every section of the stadium has been dropping at these games. It is common knowledge. The directors set the budget and therefore it is they who should solve the problem.

 

The impression given in pre-season ticket publicity was that the family stand season ticket prices would be adjusted depending on the result of the survey and that supporters would then be informed of the decision made.

 

‘We will be sending the survey to current Season Ticket holders, SMiSA members and fans who have previously registered for tickets by the end of May and look forward to collaborating with you on the best outcome for the club and the fans. Once we receive your feedback, we will consider it carefully and announce our final decision before the start of the season’.

 

‘The feedback will then be analysed and a decision made on the arrangements for the upcoming season. This will be announced on 17 June, allowing a further two weeks to purchase tickets at the early bird price once a decision has been made’.

 

Only when the survey was opened did we find that any family stand changes were for the following season.

‘As such it is our plan is to change to allocating three stands to Home fans in Season 2023/24’.

‘We would also like to be able to give three stands to Home fans for all games in the coming season, 2022/23. However, doing so would leave a gap in the budget, which is already set, of £100k (each game we fill the family stand with away fans is worth around £35k)’.

There has beenmisrepresentation of a decision already made.

 

Supporters here rightly point out we are not filling the family stand. We never will if this continues.The directors should adjust the budget accordingly and begin to rebuild relationships with the supporters, instead they do more of the same and expect a different outcome, even stating they want to add a further 300 season ticket holders! I expect season ticket sales will drop this season.

 

They should join us and buy season tickets at padded seat prices to help. In the pastdirectors paid for tickets and ties and suits. According to a Rangers supporting business colleague who was there, one ‘St Mirren’ director did manage to attend Rangers celebrations. Although I was unwell I am also informed on good authority that only two directors bothered to support the club’s annual dinner.If directors don’t bother, why should we and why should we be squeezed even more?

 

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23 hours ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

👏

We are informed that the custodians are fans. Maybe the prawn sandwiches have forgotten what its like to be in the body of the support.

Selling out to the easy pound is not the solution. Building a long term strategy to increase season ticket holders, revenue streams and sustainability in the club is the solution. Basil has gone to great lengths to shoot down many of the ideas put forward because they are not the golden goose. However ideas need work, effort and momentum to grow. Our ideas seem limited to putting the responsibility of the filling of the stands or substituting the revenue to the current fan base they already have.

 

 

This just isn’t true. I have only highlighted the idealistic nature of some of our fans to think there is an easy, practical solution. That isn’t how the world always works. The focus is on filling the stands because as all our similar sized rivals show, that’s where more money comes in practice, regardless of off the field ideas. 
 

Sometimes the solution to a problem is a compromise, like instead of having thousands of empty seats, we sell tickets to a fanbase that want to attend. It isn’t ideal but it’s a handful of matches, no St Mirren fan that wants to attend is unable to do so & it considerably enhances the clubs budget.
 

It also doesn’t mean the club can’t or are not exploring other PRACTICAL ideas to increase income long-term. Like it or not, you don’t automatically know better, it isn’t automatically ‘lazy’ not to take your back of a fag packet ideas & move them all forward. 
 

The results of the fan survey will be out soon, something in itself which is a positive, engaging step forward. 
 

We can then see where we go from there. If it turns out, a lot of fans have similar views to me on the realistic approach we are taking, fine. If it is indeed as negative as many assume, judge the new club board on what they do at that stage. 

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I’ve just bought my season ticket. I thought long and hard about it. I grudgingly paid my £335. It’s the first time in 40plus years I have had very real second thoughts. I have not made up my mind about attending the Rangers or Celtic games. I will decide on the day. I might not be able to attend some of the now more common Friday night or Sunday lunchtime games so the season ticket probably does not make much personal financial sense any more. I coughed up to help the club I have supported over the years. My brand loyalty has been severely stretched. If a plumber, joiner or lawyer treated me in the way the directors of St. Mirren have recently I would take my business elsewhere. Much like my gas and electricity suppliers they have a virtual monopoly position. If I went to the cinema and had to listen to a number of folk singing sectarians songs while sitting in the freezing cold watching a boring movie I would just leave and never return. I certainly would not consider buying a season ticket for the so called family stand only to have my seat re-allocated three times a season. Looking round the stadium in the last weeks of the season there was a clear lack of young folk in most parts of the ground. The ever increasing cost of living will force many to rethink where to spend their leisure cash – if they have any. I gave up travelling to away games last season.

Fan ownership seems to be pretty meaningless.

So St. Mirren directors, like I suspect many season ticket holders, I have signed up for another full season but it might well be my last.
 

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29 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

This just isn’t true. I have only highlighted the idealistic nature of some of our fans to think there is an easy, practical solution. That isn’t how the world always works. The focus is on filling the stands because as all our similar sized rivals show, that’s where more money comes in practice, regardless of off the field ideas. 
 

No one said any of the ideas and initiatives were easy. If they were easy everyone would do them. 

What’s interesting is that in the interim period of us debating this the club have issued the Barn Door Survey basically advising the fans that to save the stand we need to fleece you of more cash. At these time of rising cost I’m surprised they did not advise that by attending the Glasgow club games you would be saving putting on your electricity thus saving money and supporting the club. Win Win.

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2 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

No one said any of the ideas and initiatives were easy. If they were easy everyone would do them. 

What’s interesting is that in the interim period of us debating this the club have issued the Barn Door Survey basically advising the fans that to save the stand we need to fleece you of more cash. At these time of rising cost I’m surprised they did not advise that by attending the Glasgow club games you would be saving putting on your electricity thus saving money and supporting the club. Win Win.

If they were practical, everyone would do them. It’s the same principle. 

None of your ideas would likely bridge the gap short-term & none of them are guaranteed success (in fact they’re seemingly pretty high risk/ unlikely to raise decent money).
 

The fans have been made aware of what’s required to bridge the gap or the ramifications (reduced player budget). What more would you expect from the survey? 
 

I’m not sure who you were previously on this forum, be it Oakster, Dicko, LPM or someone else that always through they were right & the club could do absolutely NO right, the survey being the latest example. But I’m here to tell you, your ideas aren’t necessarily golden ticket. 

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6 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

If they were practical, everyone would do them. It’s the same principle. 

None of your ideas would likely bridge the gap short-term & none of them are guaranteed success (in fact they’re seemingly pretty high risk/ unlikely to raise decent money).
 

The fans have been made aware of what’s required to bridge the gap or the ramifications (reduced player budget). What more would you expect from the survey? 
 

I’m not sure who you were previously on this forum, be it Oakster, Dicko, LPM or someone else that always through they were right & the club could do absolutely NO right, the survey being the latest example. But I’m here to tell you, your ideas aren’t necessarily golden ticket. 

I prefer to be a challenger than a YES man. Yes men think they are helping but are more often the problem.

There are no golden tickets to any ideas without time, momentum, effort, market demand and people. When your finished reading your Andrew Carnegie biography please advise on what award wining initiatives you have come up with.  (Doing a survey to ask the fans form more money has been done already)

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40 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

I prefer to be a challenger than a YES man. Yes men think they are helping but are more often the problem.

There are no golden tickets to any ideas without time, momentum, effort, market demand and people. When your finished reading your Andrew Carnegie biography please advise on what award wining initiatives you have come up with.  (Doing a survey to ask the fans form more money has been done already)

You’re pretty much a yes man from the opposite end. You’re seemingly saying ‘yes all these half baked ideas can work & should be tried’ & ‘yes I know better than people in the industry’ 

Seems like you’re struggling to understand though. I don’t believe there are throwaway ideas that anyone can half arsed come up with on a fan forum to fix the issues impacting St Mirren. 

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1 hour ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

I prefer to be a challenger than a YES man. Yes men think they are helping but are more often the problem.

There are no golden tickets to any ideas without time, momentum, effort, market demand and people. When your finished reading your Andrew Carnegie biography please advise on what award wining initiatives you have come up with.  (Doing a survey to ask the fans form more money has been done already)

A man of many ideas, some of them poor / good / excellent…..take your pick. Not a bad description of many of us on here perhaps. The problem is that the business runs in real time with (as always) limited resources. So, whilst I personally love the thought that fans can and should be encouraged to put forward ideas there also has to be an acceptance that these will be decided upon by the board and , if researched and implemented, that this be part of the ongoing improvement plan. 

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2 hours ago, Rascal said:

A man of many ideas, some of them poor / good / excellent…..take your pick. Not a bad description of many of us on here perhaps. The problem is that the business runs in real time with (as always) limited resources. So, whilst I personally love the thought that fans can and should be encouraged to put forward ideas there also has to be an acceptance that these will be decided upon by the board and , if researched and implemented, that this be part of the ongoing improvement plan. 

Basil forgets that this is a fans forum where we get to moan, chew the fat, berate, cheer or congratulate the club. None of us are experts at running the club, however our opinion does count because, when you get down to it we are customers of a business. The guys that are on the board (now not playing fans) never had any experience of running a club until they went on the board. So why do they have better ideas than the paying fan/customer. Maybe there are successful business Rascals on this forum whose life experience and knowledge of businesses have some validity rather than being pigeonholed as a moaning supporter with hairbrained ideas.

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But as a fan based organisation is the majority shareholder we shoiuld at least be aware of what has been considered and rejected not just expected to take it on trust that the ideas have been considered impractical before being expected to empty our wallets on the table!

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4 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Basil forgets that this is a fans forum where we get to moan, chew the fat, berate, cheer or congratulate the club. None of us are experts at running the club, however our opinion does count because, when you get down to it we are customers of a business. The guys that are on the board (now not playing fans) never had any experience of running a club until they went on the board. So why do they have better ideas than the paying fan/customer. Maybe there are successful business Rascals on this forum whose life experience and knowledge of businesses have some validity rather than being pigeonholed as a moaning supporter with hairbrained ideas.

As you see, I favour the sharing of ideas with the extreme comfort that I will never be tasked with putting them into action! But ..keeping the fans in the loop has never been more important. (SS)

Edited by Rascal
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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

You’re pretty much a yes man from the opposite end. You’re seemingly saying ‘yes all these half baked ideas can work & should be tried’ & ‘yes I know better than people in the industry’ 

Seems like you’re struggling to understand though. I don’t believe there are throwaway ideas that anyone can half arsed come up with on a fan forum to fix the issues impacting St Mirren. 

At least you are admitting there are issues at the club. It is rather pompous and dismissive of you to suggest that fans don’t have the ability to have ideas that affect their club. It’s amazing when you keep taking the stance that the board are all fans. 

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