Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 I am in the No camp. Explaining my reasons would be convoluted and add little of value to the debate - a mainly emotional response based on a dislike for the “eye for an eye” Old Testament / Abrahamic approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 1 minute ago, SuperSaints1877 said: I blame @W6er for starting this yesterday. His fault and his alone for all historic, current and future issues! “Aff with his heid” I say! This could be handy................................any volunteers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 54 minutes ago, Rascal said: I am in the No camp. Explaining my reasons would be convoluted and add little of value to the debate - a mainly emotional response based on a dislike for the “eye for an eye” Old Testament / Abrahamic approach. It’s never stopped you before 😂 (sorry you set it up so beautifully I had to bite) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted July 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Rascal said: I am in the No camp. Explaining my reasons would be convoluted and add little of value to the debate - a mainly emotional response based on a dislike for the “eye for an eye” Old Testament / Abrahamic approach. A pastor once explained to me this was to set limits on retribution, i.e. it should be proportionate. 2 hours ago, faraway saint said: This could be handy................................any volunteers? Mad. The condemned used to tip the executioner, who may have had a few drinks. Otherwise he might miss and get the axe stuck in your skull, and have to wiggle it out...before the second attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 30 minutes ago, W6er said: A pastor once explained to me this was to set limits on retribution, i.e. it should be proportionate. Mad. The condemned used to tip the executioner, who may have had a few drinks. Otherwise he might miss and get the axe stuck in your skull, and have to wiggle it out...before the second attempt. Just when you thought the day couldn't get any worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 1 hour ago, W6er said: A pastor once explained to me this was to set limits on retribution, i.e. it should be proportionate. Mad. The condemned used to tip the executioner, who may have had a few drinks. Otherwise he might miss and get the axe stuck in your skull, and have to wiggle it out...before the second attempt. The idea of proportionality and the idea of forgiveness are more Christian New Testament. The Old Testament but both Judaism and Islamic teachings are not big on either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted July 30, 2022 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 28 minutes ago, Rascal said: The idea of proportionality and the idea of forgiveness are more Christian New Testament. The Old Testament but both Judaism and Islamic teachings are not big on either. The verse states: Quote "And a man who injures his countryman – as he has done, so it shall be done to him [namely,] fracture under/for fracture, eye under/for eye, tooth under/for tooth. Just as another person has received injury from him, so it will be given to him." (Lev. 24:19–21) Now whilst this is often derided, as in Gandhi's famously witty remark "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", it also means that if I give you a black eye you don't kill me in retaliation, or even break my arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 1 minute ago, W6er said: The verse states: Now whilst this is often derided, as in Gandhi's famously witty remark "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind", it also means that if I give you a black eye you don't kill me in retaliation, or even break my arm. Simply but clearly put. Proportionate implies evaluation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 41 minutes ago, Rascal said: The idea of proportionality and the idea of forgiveness are more Christian New Testament. The Old Testament but both Judaism and Islamic teachings are not big on either. How many people have been murdered throughout history due to differing “religious beliefs”? Too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 Just now, SuperSaints1877 said: How many people have been murdered throughout history due to differing “religious beliefs”? Too many. Agree 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 3 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said: It’s never stopped you before 😂 (sorry you set it up so beautifully I had to bite) Fair play Albion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 I am in the No camp. Explaining my reasons would be convoluted and add little of value to the debate - a mainly emotional response based on a dislike for the “eye for an eye” Old Testament / Abrahamic approach. In context, it means that an "eye for an eye" is the maximum punishment, not the only one. After all, it wouldn't be much of a deterent to a blind man if that's all they could do to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Slarti said: 8 hours ago, Rascal said: I am in the No camp. Explaining my reasons would be convoluted and add little of value to the debate - a mainly emotional response based on a dislike for the “eye for an eye” Old Testament / Abrahamic approach. In context, it means that an "eye for an eye" is the maximum punishment, not the only one. After all, it wouldn't be much of a deterent to a blind man if that's all they could do to him. Are you mansplaining again? Did you not understand proportionality? Try to resiste Edited July 30, 2022 by Rascal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, Rascal said: Are you mansplaining again? Did you not understand proportionality? Try to resiste Try to WHIT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Try to WHIT? Aye….indeed. This is a bit more interesting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_and_philosophical_views_of_Albert_Einstein Edited July 30, 2022 by Rascal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 Are you mansplaining again? Did you not understand proportionality? Try to resisteProportionality DOES NOT mean the same as I said.Stop trying to make yourself look intelligent, it never works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Slarti said: Proportionality DOES NOT mean the same as I said. Stop trying to make yourself look intelligent, it never works for you. Are you slow or just plain stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 Are you slow or just plain stupidStop trying to make yourself look intelligent, it never works for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint in exile Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 19 hours ago, faraway saint said: States that have death penalty laws do not have lower crime rates or murder rates than states without such laws. And states that have abolished capital punishment show no significant changes in either crime or murder rates. The death penalty has no deterrent effect. Japan has the death penalty and a very low incidence of violent crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 1 minute ago, saint in exile said: Japan has the death penalty and a very low incidence of violent crime. I think the quote was referring to the good old USA, which, in reality, isn't a great example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 I think the quote was referring to the good old USA, which, in reality, isn't a great example. C'mon, it's "the best country in the world". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 3 hours ago, saint in exile said: Japan has the death penalty and a very low incidence of violent crime. You are right - differences exist where the death penalty is in place whether this be in the example you gave in Japan or in differences within federal jurisdictions inside countries like the USA. It isn’t the only factor in crime and murder rates. It’s a more complex issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal Posted July 30, 2022 Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 14 hours ago, StanleySaint said: Yes, yes and the middle east situation was caused by the Hoare Laval pact, you can find an argument that imperialism or exploration is the root of all issues, the Spanish and the Portugese have nothing to be proud about either or the French or Germans, Dutch or Americans, Chinese or Japanese. It really isn't about the cause or previous history it is about now and how we as nations behave and react, human nature will always seek an advantage it is who we are. If you were of that inclination you could blame everything on Eve or the serpent or God for creating us in the first place, let's see how that pans out. Carving up slices of the world to enhance the interests of individuals, groups, countries, capitalists and religion have a lot to answer for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slarti Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 Here's a case for the death penalty, if they're guilty.https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/eleven-scots-accused-child-sex-27629480 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALBIONSAINT Posted August 3, 2022 Report Share Posted August 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Slarti said: Here's a case for the death penalty, if they're guilty. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/crime/eleven-scots-accused-child-sex-27629480 Ducking stool first then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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