The AGM controversy

[doakie]

I spoke to a few fellow fans yesterday who could not see any chat around the rather stormy AGM. A contributor called “Glen” posted an accurate summary and there were various replies but, due to the fact it was on a different thread (More redundancies. Where are you SMISA?) I thought it might be an idea to open a separate thread as the AGM had a controversial ending.

Since the AGM there’s been much talk about Alan Wardrop and his comments. Here’s a brief summary:

Alan said that, in August 2022, Mark McMillan of Kibble was asked by the St.Mirren board to engage with Renfrewshire Council with a view to growing the area around the stadium. The idea was to potentially switch the Academy from Ralston to this area.

However, Mr. McMillan apparently failed to mention to his fellow board directors that he was already in conversations with RDC around a Scot Gov funding application made in June 2022 to transfer land “adjacent to the stadium” to Kibble ownership.

So, of the six board members, apparently only the two Kibble reps knew about the application while the remaining four directors were unaware. Alan’s opinion is that this is a conflict of interest but the matter only came to light when the application for funding progressed to stage 2 and was announced publicly in September 2022.

Mr. McMillan claimed that there was no such conflict but, due to his reluctance to speak in plain English as well as his use of technical jargon, his response did not convince.

This is a brief summary but there are other comments on Glen’s post.

[BuddieinEK]

7 hours ago, doakie said:

I spoke to a few fellow fans yesterday who could not see any chat around the rather stormy AGM. A contributor called “Glen” posted an accurate summary and there were various replies but, due to the fact it was on a different thread (More redundancies. Where are you SMISA?) I thought it might be an idea to open a separate thread as the AGM had a controversial ending.

Since the AGM there’s been much talk about Alan Wardrop and his comments. Here’s a brief summary:

Alan said that, in August 2022, Mark McMillan of Kibble was asked by the St.Mirren board to engage with Renfrewshire Council with a view to growing the area around the stadium. The idea was to potentially switch the Academy from Ralston to this area.

However, Mr. McMillan apparently failed to mention to his fellow board directors that he was already in conversations with RDC around a Scot Gov funding application made in June 2022 to transfer land “adjacent to the stadium” to Kibble ownership.

So, of the six board members, apparently only the two Kibble reps knew about the application while the remaining four directors were unaware. Alan’s opinion is that this is a conflict of interest but the matter only came to light when the application for funding progressed to stage 2 and was announced publicly in September 2022.

Mr. McMillan claimed that there was no such conflict but, due to his reluctance to speak in plain English as well as his use of technical jargon, his response did not convince.

This is a brief summary but there are other comments on Glen’s post.

You previously hung me out to dry by denying your concerns shared in private and in public saying that all was well.

What is your current opinion?

Is all well and nothing to worry about as you previously suggested?

[Cookie Monster]

You previously hung me out to dry by denying your concerns shared in private and in public saying that all was well.
What is your current opinion?
Is all well and nothing to worry about as you previously suggested?

As I've got Doakes and doakie mixed up previously. Wonder if you've done the same here. [emoji43]‍[emoji94]

[BuddieinEK]

38 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

As I've got Doakes and doakie mixed up previously. Wonder if you've done the same here. ‍

Correct. Well spotted. 

I have apologised.

[Cookie Monster]

Correct. Well spotted. 
I have apologised.

I didn't apologise. I noticed it before I posted. [emoji1787]

[Maboza]

In terms of the ‘conflict of interest’ question - I’d simply wonder why, out of all the land available across Paisley,  why do Kibble want the land next to the ground? 
 

I have noticed in Kibble Twitter recently that they’ve been hosting kibble events at the stadium. I’d really love to have assurances from someone that Kibble are paying the going rates for the use of our facilities.  Also, their advertising and branding (stadium boards, and interview/media boards) seem to have benefited from enhanced placement.  I’d love to know the marketing revenue that we’ve made from Kibble pre-involvement, compared to now - to ensure that there’s been no drop off. Indeed - has there been an increase? 
 

Has anyone asked those questions of the club? 
 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Maboza

[Cookie Monster]

I asked the other day about the grant application. This was a reply.

 Mr Wardrop asked Mr. McMillan. No details were provided so I don't know who, if anyone, hoped to gain. 

So who is telling the truth, was there details given or not?

[doakie]

18 minutes ago, Maboza said:

In terms of the ‘conflict of interest’ question - I’d simply wonder why, out of all the land available across Paisley,  why do Kibble want the land next to the ground? 
 

I have noticed in Kibble Twitter recently that they’ve been hosting kibble events at the stadium. I’d really love to have assurances from someone that Kibble are paying the going rates for the use of our facilities.  Also, their advertising and branding (stadium boards, and interview/media boards) seem to have benefited from enhanced placement.  I’d love to know the marketing revenue that we’ve made from Kibble pre-involvement, compared to now - to ensure that there’s been no drop off. Indeed - has there been an increase? 
 

Has anyone asked those questions of the club? 
 

 

Very good questions indeed, Maboza. I'm not the only person who has wondered whether or not Kibble have been paying for the "enhanced placement".

I also admit to being suspicious to their motives in wanting land adjacent to the stadium, particularly with the total lack of transparency displayed by Mark McMillan at the AGM.

As Maboza says, of all the land available in Paisley why would Kibble want to build next to the stadium? Forward planning perhaps - and I don't mean the kind of planning that would benefit the club. Naturally, this is mere speculation on my part but, as I said earlier, his performance at the AGM was unconvincing. 

That view was shared by every single shareholder that I subsequently spoke to - and that was quite a few. The common view is that jargon combined with vague answers only arouses suspicion.

Of course, I didn't speak to every shareholder so I cannot claim to speak for all but I've yet to hear anyone claim that his responses were satisfactory whereas everyone I spoke to was supportive of Alan Wardrop's line of questioning. Was there a conflict of interest? The question should have been answered properly and in plain English.

[doakie]

5 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

I asked the other day about the grant application. This was a reply.
 

 

So who is telling the truth, was there details given or not?

 

I'm not sure what details you refer to but, if you see my initial post on this thread, you'll read my recollection of events with a few details. Bottom line? Alan Wardrop claimed a conflict of interest. Mark McMillan denied it. I hope others in attendance may add their tuppence worth.

[Cookie Monster]

St Mirren have spent recently hundreds of thousands of pounds upgrading the facilities at Ralston. Wouldn’t it have been wiser to look at the availability of the surrounding area before spending the money.

Or was someone aware of Kibble’s interest and try and set up a conflict that is non existent.

[elvis]

Kibble have bought the care home on ferguslie road they bought it just after it closed in December.

[Albanian Buddy]

Why do Kibble have so much land and property? 

Someone told Kibble had some new school construction taking place that had been ongoing for years. 

It’s open according to the link below but someone told me recently it’s not. 

https://www.kibble.org/services/education-services/primary-education/forest-view/

[eastlandssaint]

Youth charity Kibble to transform entertainment hub into new skills academy - Daily Record

[alanb]

9 minutes ago, eastlandssaint said:

Youth charity Kibble to transform entertainment hub into new skills academy - Daily Record

Old news previously posted in other Kibble bashing threads 

[hamlet]

1 hour ago, doakie said:

Very good questions indeed, Maboza. I'm not the only person who has wondered whether or not Kibble have been paying for the "enhanced placement".

I also admit to being suspicious to their motives in wanting land adjacent to the stadium, particularly with the total lack of transparency displayed by Mark McMillan at the AGM.

As Maboza says, of all the land available in Paisley why would Kibble want to build next to the stadium? Forward planning perhaps - and I don't mean the kind of planning that would benefit the club. Naturally, this is mere speculation on my part but, as I said earlier, his performance at the AGM was unconvincing. 

That view was shared by every single shareholder that I subsequently spoke to - and that was quite a few. The common view is that jargon combined with vague answers only arouses suspicion.

Of course, I didn't speak to every shareholder so I cannot claim to speak for all but I've yet to hear anyone claim that his responses were satisfactory whereas everyone I spoke to was supportive of Alan Wardrop's line of questioning. Was there a conflict of interest? The question should have been answered properly and in plain English.

I think the healthy applause from the shareholders when Mr McMillan was asked to repeat his response to the question in common english, or words to that effect,

was enough evidence of the majority, if not all, of the feeling towards Mr McMillan.

[saint in exile]

On 1/29/2023 at 3:48 PM, doakie said:

Alan said that, in August 2022, Mark McMillan of Kibble was asked by the St.Mirren board to engage with Renfrewshire Council with a view to growing the area around the stadium. The idea was to potentially switch the Academy from Ralston to this area.

However, Mr. McMillan apparently failed to mention to his fellow board directors that he was already in conversations with RDC around a Scot Gov funding application made in June 2022 to transfer land “adjacent to the stadium” to Kibble ownership.

So, of the six board members, apparently only the two Kibble reps knew about the application while the remaining four directors were unaware. Alan’s opinion is that this is a conflict of interest but the matter only came to light when the application for funding progressed to stage 2 and was announced publicly in September 2022.

This, in itself, should have seen them bagged.  You CANNOT keep your fellow Directors in the dark about projects you are involved in that conflict with those the business wants to pursue. It's unethical at best, and possibly against business rules.

[TopCat]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

St Mirren have spent recently hundreds of thousands of pounds upgrading the facilities at Ralston. Wouldn’t it have been wiser to look at the availability of the surrounding area before spending the money.

Or was someone aware of Kibble’s interest and try and set up a conflict that is non existent.

Is it really hundreds of thousands on an upgrade? man alive. How many hundreds of thousands?

[glen]

Kibble uncovered

Now distrusted by the fans, the cause of boardroom splits, divisive, discovered to be underhand in dealings, rude when questioned, and in an untenable position, impossible to reverse.

This charity apparently became involved with St Mirren out of the goodness of its heart. When my friend who works there heard of this he warned me it would not end well for our club.

A lot of fans were persuaded and voted to support the idea (They would not do so now), and a cuckoo was allowed into the St Mirren nest.

What nobody realised is that their directors do not have to face re-election. They think they are untouchable.

Within a short time Kibble had brought in catering, security and building suppliers (initially all the same young man) until it was found connections existed between the two. A quick retreat followed.

Our ticketing system was dumped for a system that means we cannot add cup games to season tickets. Back we went to barcodes, readers and even paper tickets.

Staff members, trusted for years were shown the door (go to hospitality as I did a recently and you will know no one bar C Kennedy). Ticket, office, and hospitality staff have walked or been shown the door.

An employee settlement deal was mentioned on a slide at the AGM at £30,000! Hearing more are in the pipeline.

Hospitality is provided by Kibble at a ‘competitive rate’. It would be with their access to costs as board members. Insider trading or what?

Kibble receives government funding but pay for our general manager – immoral. This money is for charitable purposes. Kibble has millions in the bank. How many charities do you know in this position?

Kibble took over the daily accountancy. Where are we now?

In November 2020 Kibble were clearing the way. They called in the Inland Revenue and spoke to the press as Kibble, not as St. Mirren directors. They pushed for the resignation of John Needham following his ill advised comments about Rangers fans. Kibble's Jim Gillespie, a Rangers supporter is now our vice chairman.

Jim Gillespie is also in charge of the academy, now a shambles with a vast overspend on recent works. He has been credited with bringing in Keith Lasley (both their sons are at the academy) at great cost.

Kibble’s much vaunted commercial expertise included a failed £1.6 million in taxpayers’ money lost at the closed down go carting ‘Experience’ in Hillington (it was managed by our present general manager) contributed to St Mirren turning a £1 million in the bank into a record £1.7 million deficit.

Kibble’s directors were disrespectful, arrogant and rude at the AGM. Nobody there has disagreed with that.

Kibble’s PR agency must be in overdrive but it’s too late. 

We see you Kibble.

Time to say goodbye.

[Cookie Monster]

Echo

[waldorf34]

23 minutes ago, glen said:

Kibble uncovered

Now distrusted by the fans, the cause of boardroom splits, divisive, discovered to be underhand in dealings, rude when questioned, and in an untenable position, impossible to reverse.

This charity apparently became involved with St Mirren out of the goodness of its heart. When my friend who works there heard of this he warned me it would not end well for our club.

A lot of fans were persuaded and voted to support the idea (They would not do so now), and a cuckoo was allowed into the St Mirren nest.

What nobody realised is that their directors do not have to face re-election. They think they are untouchable.

Within a short time Kibble had brought in catering, security and building suppliers (initially all the same young man) until it was found connections existed between the two. A quick retreat followed.

Our ticketing system was dumped for a system that means we cannot add cup games to season tickets. Back we went to barcodes, readers and even paper tickets.

Staff members, trusted for years were shown the door (go to hospitality as I did a recently and you will know no one bar C Kennedy). Ticket, office, and hospitality staff have walked or been shown the door.

An employee settlement deal was mentioned on a slide at the AGM at £30,000! Hearing more are in the pipeline.

Hospitality is provided by Kibble at a ‘competitive rate’. It would be with their access to costs as board members. Insider trading or what?

Kibble receives government funding but pay for our general manager – immoral. This money is for charitable purposes. Kibble has millions in the bank. How many charities do you know in this position?

Kibble took over the daily accountancy. Where are we now?

In November 2020 Kibble were clearing the way. They called in the Inland Revenue and spoke to the press as Kibble, not as St. Mirren directors. They pushed for the resignation of John Needham following his ill advised comments about Rangers fans. Kibble's Jim Gillespie, a Rangers supporter is now our vice chairman.

Jim Gillespie is also in charge of the academy, now a shambles with a vast overspend on recent works. He has been credited with bringing in Keith Lasley (both their sons are at the academy) at great cost.

Kibble’s much vaunted commercial expertise included a failed £1.6 million in taxpayers’ money lost at the closed down go carting ‘Experience’ in Hillington (it was managed by our present general manager) contributed to St Mirren turning a £1 million in the bank into a record £1.7 million deficit.

Kibble’s directors were disrespectful, arrogant and rude at the AGM. Nobody there has disagreed with that.

Kibble’s PR agency must be in overdrive but it’s too late. 

We see you Kibble.

Time to say goodbye.

Time to raise the money to buy them out ,failing that  , revisit the agreed terms of them having Directors on the board 

[elvis]

5 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

Time to raise the money to buy them out ,failing that  , revisit the agreed terms of them having Directors on the board 

They have all ready told one interested party to f**k off.

[Percy Veer]

3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

I asked the other day about the grant application. This was a reply.

So who is telling the truth, was there details given or not?

 

You of all people wanting to know "the truth"!  What a laugh you really are!

Why don't you ask Animal to meet up with you and you can "film" him talking to you then not bother turning up because you're scared meeting him will "ruin" your career?!  Or better still, why don't you just say you'll "put him in Hospital"?!

#cowardlyCockles1987 #keyboardwarrior #internethardman

[InMehmetWeTrust]

3 hours ago, glen said:

Kibble’s much vaunted commercial expertise included a failed £1.6 million in taxpayers’ money lost at the closed down go carting ‘Experience’ in Hillington (it was managed by our present general manager) contributed to St Mirren turning a £1 million in the bank into a record £1.7 million deficit

 

At the end of the accounting period you’re quoting, there was a million pounds in the bank. There had been a £1.6m loss for the year to that date, meaning the deficit was in the budget not the bank balance. 
 

I’m not defending the above or saying I’m happy with the club running at a loss. 
 

Bang the drum all you want for what you have been, but if you want to be taken seriously you should try actually reading the accounts that you’re quoting as evidence of something first. 

[bazil85]

7 hours ago, Maboza said:

In terms of the ‘conflict of interest’ question - I’d simply wonder why, out of all the land available across Paisley,  why do Kibble want the land next to the ground? 
 

I have noticed in Kibble Twitter recently that they’ve been hosting kibble events at the stadium. I’d really love to have assurances from someone that Kibble are paying the going rates for the use of our facilities.  Also, their advertising and branding (stadium boards, and interview/media boards) seem to have benefited from enhanced placement.  I’d love to know the marketing revenue that we’ve made from Kibble pre-involvement, compared to now - to ensure that there’s been no drop off. Indeed - has there been an increase? 
 

Has anyone asked those questions of the club? 
 

 

Is that not the kind of stuff that makes it worthwhile for the Kibble to have bought in?
 

The deal always had to have two sides of mutual benefit. Their resources, expertise & people benefiting the club & our facilities & platform to improve their exposure? 

[InMehmetWeTrust]

6 hours ago, doakie said:

Of course, I didn't speak to every shareholder so I cannot claim to speak for all but I've yet to hear anyone claim that his responses were satisfactory whereas everyone I spoke to was supportive of Alan Wardrop's line of questioning. Was there a conflict of interest? The question should have been answered properly and in plain English.

I wasn’t in attendance but I have spoken to several shareholders who were, and they all said that Mark McMillan’s answers were straight forward and based on matters of fact (either in public record or supported by multiple board members), and that it was the questions returned in favour that were just ignored or blustered. 

 

Bandying around what I’ve said or what you’ve said on an internet forum without a transcript to confirm or verify is all a bit pointless, and I think we can all do a bit better than this to be quite honest.