The AGM controversy

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, beyond our ken said:

 

Renderworks - A Kibble contact and the Project Management was handled by Kibble at no fee. Should Kibble not have been there, we would have had to shell out on the project management. 

As said about the mural and pre-match entertainment, I'm not sure the level of involvement, both positive steps by the club, which Kibble is part owner of. Pre-match entertainment also stopped during Covid (obviously) so it isn't fair to say the current SMFC/ SMISA boards had nothing to do with it's return. 

So no, both not very poor. 

I gave details of both, I just can't give the deep dive level of information (which I never claimed to be able to do or would expect an average fan to be kept informed on). If your expectations is, fans would be able to fully quantify everything going on behind the scenes at the club, then good management & benefit "doesn't exist" at practically any football club in the world. 

Bottom-line is, there has very clearly been cost saving & investment in the Kibble's time at the club. At the very least: 

- Project management 

- Use of Kibble contacts 

- Staff and resource in different areas of the club 

- Changes to our operating model

Edited February 3, 2023 by bazil85

[doakie]

23 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Renderworks - A Kibble contact and the Project Management was handled by Kibble at no fee. Should Kibble not have been there, we would have had to shell out on the project management.

 

Oh dear. I promised myself that I wasn't going to engage in any further dialogue with the Kibble PR team aka Bazil85 but I have to challenge this preposterous statement. Even a child could work out by looking at the financial report prepared for the shareholders that this statement is false. 

"handled by Kibble at no fee"? Nonsense! I'm reminded of that old cliche - there are lies, damn lies and statistics. In this case, I'd amend that to: there are lies, damn lies and Bazil's posts. 

"Should Kibble not have been there, we would have had to shell out on the project management" he says. The original budget was £80k for Ralston but the final bill ended up at £400k - this was disclosed at the AGM at which Bazil wasn't present - so it begs the question:  how efficient was their project management when it went over budget by such a huge amount? The answer? Not very efficient at all.

Want another example of his misinformation? He said "The AGM sounds blown out of proportion". He wasn't there so doesn't know what was said on the night. He cannot know if it's out of proportion when he wasn't present.

Don't be fooled, folks, this guy's credibility is zero. His only interest is to counter any criticism of Kibble and, after recent revelations, his mask is slipping. My goodness, he even disputes first hand reports from the AGM - even though he wasn't present.  How ludicrous is that? 

I, and about 100 shareholders, witnessed the stormiest exchange I've ever seen at such a meeting when former director and life long St.Mirren supporter, Alan Wardrop, accused Mark McMillan of having a conflict of interest. Tempers flared, concerns expressed and voices were raised yet Bazil, despite his absence, would have you believe that "The AGM sounds blown out of proportion"

Of course he'll respond to this in a pathetic attempt to defend Kibble in spite of what I believe to be growing discontent among shareholders and supporters, (hence the almost total overhaul of the Smisa board but that's another story)

Over and out.

 

[bazil85]

11 minutes ago, doakie said:

Oh dear. I promised myself that I wasn't going to engage in any further dialogue with the Kibble PR team aka Bazil85 but I have to challenge this preposterous statement. Even a child could work out by looking at the financial report prepared for the shareholders that this statement is false. 

"handled by Kibble at no fee"? Nonsense! I'm reminded of that old cliche - there are lies, damn lies and statistics. In this case, I'd amend that to: there are lies, damn lies and Bazil's posts. 

"Should Kibble not have been there, we would have had to shell out on the project management" he says. The original budget was £80k for Ralston but the final bill ended up at £400k - this was disclosed at the AGM at which Bazil wasn't present - so it begs the question:  how efficient was their project management when it went over budget by such a huge amount? The answer? Not very efficient at all.

Want another example of his misinformation? He said "The AGM sounds blown out of proportion". He wasn't there so doesn't know what was said on the night. He cannot know if it's out of proportion when he wasn't present.

Don't be fooled, folks, this guy's credibility is zero. His only interest is to counter any criticism of Kibble and, after recent revelations, his mask is slipping. My goodness, he even disputes first hand reports from the AGM - even though he wasn't present.  How ludicrous is that? 

I, and about 100 shareholders, witnessed the stormiest exchange I've ever seen at such a meeting when former director and life long St.Mirren supporter, Alan Wardrop, accused Mark McMillan of having a conflict of interest. Tempers flared, concerns expressed and voices were raised yet Bazil, despite his absence, would have you believe that "The AGM sounds blown out of proportion"

Of course he'll respond to this in a pathetic attempt to defend Kibble in spite of what I believe to be growing discontent among shareholders and supporters, (hence the almost total overhaul of the Smisa board but that's another story)

Over and out.

 

This sums up your views on the Kibble, it is always their fault. It has been very well documented that the repairs and improvements at the Kibble were plentiful, long overdue and legacy to the club. If the Kibble charged us or resulted in us paying £400k or anything like it for the work at Ralston, please do share the evidence. Highlighting and correcting issues at Ralston is SURELY a positive of the project management. Issues that have seemingly festered under previous boards for years. 🤷‍♂️

Yet to see minutes from the AGM and given the history of people posting, yes I think it was blown out of proportion. Again, feel free to evidence. 

"Mask has slipped" there it is, yet again... How many times? 🤣 

Let me be clear about the AGM, I don't believe the summary from the same people who have been anti-Kibble since day one. You've literally just blamed them for a £400k bill at Ralston despite them being nowhere near the legacy issues documented. 

Claiming and confirming a conflict of interest are different things. The Kibble (a Paisley institution) wanting to buy land (in Paisley) that isn't owned or anything to do with St Mirren sounds nothing like a conflict of interest to me. Mr Wardop getting a wee bit salty possibly??

You again, you have given ZERO evidence for your pre-held bias towards the Kibble, and once again, evidence IS required as you have absolutely no credibility as a long standing "Kibble bad" claimant. 

- Fighting for Europe 

- Biggest home crowds in years 

- A vastly improved youth and training academy 

- Extremely strong squad and the continued churn out of sellable assets

Well done to all involved with the directorship and management of SMFC. This season to date is a resounding success  

 

[waldorf34]

17 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

17 hours ago, waldorf34 said:

If we were to drop Kibble and its Directors   what would that mean to the running of the club ?
 

We can't.

In every agreement  there is a get out clause

[Cookie Monster]

In every agreement  there is a get out clause

Yip, offer them what they would want.

I'm trying to remember, are you a SMISA member?

[bazil85]

13 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

In every agreement  there is a get out clause

The get out clause would be buying their shares and there doesn't seem to be any appetite for that. 

[BuddieinEK]

1 hour ago, doakie said:

Oh dear. I promised myself that I wasn't going to engage in any further dialogue with the Kibble PR team aka Bazil85 but I have to challenge this preposterous statement. Even a child could work out by looking at the financial report prepared for the shareholders that this statement is false. 

"handled by Kibble at no fee"? Nonsense! I'm reminded of that old cliche - there are lies, damn lies and statistics. In this case, I'd amend that to: there are lies, damn lies and Bazil's posts. 

"Should Kibble not have been there, we would have had to shell out on the project management" he says. The original budget was £80k for Ralston but the final bill ended up at £400k - this was disclosed at the AGM at which Bazil wasn't present - so it begs the question:  how efficient was their project management when it went over budget by such a huge amount? The answer? Not very efficient at all.

Want another example of his misinformation? He said "The AGM sounds blown out of proportion". He wasn't there so doesn't know what was said on the night. He cannot know if it's out of proportion when he wasn't present.

Don't be fooled, folks, this guy's credibility is zero. His only interest is to counter any criticism of Kibble and, after recent revelations, his mask is slipping. My goodness, he even disputes first hand reports from the AGM - even though he wasn't present.  How ludicrous is that? 

I, and about 100 shareholders, witnessed the stormiest exchange I've ever seen at such a meeting when former director and life long St.Mirren supporter, Alan Wardrop, accused Mark McMillan of having a conflict of interest. Tempers flared, concerns expressed and voices were raised yet Bazil, despite his absence, would have you believe that "The AGM sounds blown out of proportion"

Of course he'll respond to this in a pathetic attempt to defend Kibble in spite of what I believe to be growing discontent among shareholders and supporters, (hence the almost total overhaul of the Smisa board but that's another story)

Over and out.

 

He also said, and I quote, 

"the club, which Kibble is part owner of"!

Good to know that Kibble is now a collective St Mirren fan as otherwise, we couldn't really be "fan owned", could we? 😜

You make very valid points based on facts. Not sure there is a place for that in this playground. 🤐😜

[bazil85]

26 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

He also said, and I quote, 

"the club, which Kibble is part owner of"!

Good to know that Kibble is now a collective St Mirren fan as otherwise, we couldn't really be "fan owned", could we? 😜

You make very valid points based on facts. Not sure there is a place for that in this playground. 🤐😜

The club is fan owned and thriving on the pitch. Get over it  

[doakie]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

 

"Yet to see minutes from the AGM and given the history of people posting, yes I think it was blown out of proportion." Despite admitting that you were not present and, seeing the board decided not to take minutes,  it is irrational make such a statement. You form an opinion without knowing what was said? Silly sausage!

"Claiming and confirming a conflict of interest are different things. The Kibble (a Paisley institution) wanting to buy land (in Paisley) that isn't owned or anything to do with St Mirren sounds nothing like a conflict of interest to me."  I reiterate, you were not present therefore did not hear the debate so cannot possibly form an opinion on the alleged conflict of interest.....unless of course you have an agenda.

So you force pro Kibble PR upon us even when you have no knowledge of the discussions that took place - that's playground stuff and I left that immature style of debate behind over 50 years ago. 

I'm tired of this thread, no, I'm tired of your lack of insight and logic but I reiterate, your role as Kibble PR is growing ever so precarious. I'm also rather offended that you choose to insult the intelligence of myself and other fans on this forum with your nonsense. I suggest that the next time you post you do so in a mature manner and give your opinion on, for example, meetings that you have attended and not resort to ridiculing those of us who care enough to attend AGM's and Smisa meetings. You even equate the on field success with the off field financial crisis, a crisis to which the manager constantly refers whereas, if you'd taken the time to attend the AGM, you'd be aware that the manager was given hearty congratulations for performing so well under the cloud of the financial crisis surrounding the club.

The point of this reply is not to win a debate with someone as illogical as yourself - that's impossible - but it is to highlight your foolishness. 

Over and definitely out. 

 

 

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, doakie said:

 

Despite admitting that you were not present and, seeing the board decided not to take minutes,  it is irrational make such a statement. You form an opinion without knowing what was said? Silly sausage! -  The point is I don't believe it, from what people have said who were there, I see very little concern & their claim of it being bad seems blown out of proportion. Your bias means you aren't a reliable witness, that isn't remotely irrational. 

 I reiterate, you were not present therefore did not hear the debate so cannot possibly form an opinion on the alleged conflict of interest.....unless of course you have an agenda. - But that's literally the point that was made, no one has said anything further than that & it doesn't sound like a conflict of interest at all. People getting the huff over that subject is evidence they were over reacting. Can you actually explain in what way, shape or form a Paisley institution buying land in Paisley not linked to St Mirren is a conflict of interest? 

So you force pro Kibble PR upon us even when you have no knowledge of the discussions that took place - Your demand that I believe your moon howling because you were there and I wasn't makes no sense at all. I don't believe something you can't evidence from the points provided. They don't seem like a big deal AT ALL. 

that you choose to insult the intelligence of myself and other fans on this forum with your nonsense - You've made that up, I'm not questioning intelligence, just your very clear and long-held bias that it's "Kibble bad" regardless of what happens. 

mature manner and give your opinion on, for example, meetings that you have attended and not resort to ridiculing those of us who care enough to attend AGM's and Smisa meetings.  - Sheer arrogance, condescending and passive aggressive... It also is my opinion that this has been blown out of proportion, you've factually shared no evidence to change my mind. 

off field financial crisis - Kibbles fault again no doubt... 

illogical as yourself - that's impossible - but it is to highlight your foolishness. - More arrogance, it would be illogical and foolish to believe someone who has moaned about the Kibble for years without basis.

Your blame of the Kibble for legacy Ralston issues is actual evidence, your view can't be trusted as it is clouded by an agenda. 

 

 

 

 

[guinness]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

The club is fan owned and thriving on the pitch. Get over it  

Not fan owned. Fans have 51%. Require agreement with a third party to take certain measures. Not what was sold originally.

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by guinness

[bazil85]

5 minutes ago, guinness said:

Not can owned. Fans have 51%. Require agreement with a third party to take certain measures. Not what was sold originally.

 

We're still fan owned, terminology is perfectly acceptable. 

[Brilliant Disguise]

40 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Despite admitting that you were not present and, seeing the board decided not to take minutes,  it is irrational make such a statement. You form an opinion without knowing what was said? Silly sausage! -  The point is I don't believe it, from what people have said who were there, I see very little concern & their claim of it being bad seems blown out of proportion. Your bias means you aren't a reliable witness, that isn't remotely irrational. 

 I reiterate, you were not present therefore did not hear the debate so cannot possibly form an opinion on the alleged conflict of interest.....unless of course you have an agenda. - But that's literally the point that was made, no one has said anything further than that & it doesn't sound like a conflict of interest at all. People getting the huff over that subject is evidence they were over reacting. Can you actually explain in what way, shape or form a Paisley institution buying land in Paisley not linked to St Mirren is a conflict of interest? 

So you force pro Kibble PR upon us even when you have no knowledge of the discussions that took place - Your demand that I believe your moon howling because you were there and I wasn't makes no sense at all. I don't believe something you can't evidence from the points provided. They don't seem like a big deal AT ALL. 

that you choose to insult the intelligence of myself and other fans on this forum with your nonsense - You've made that up, I'm not questioning intelligence, just your very clear and long-held bias that it's "Kibble bad" regardless of what happens. 

mature manner and give your opinion on, for example, meetings that you have attended and not resort to ridiculing those of us who care enough to attend AGM's and Smisa meetings.  - Sheer arrogance, condescending and passive aggressive... It also is my opinion that this has been blown out of proportion, you've factually shared no evidence to change my mind. 

off field financial crisis - Kibbles fault again no doubt... 

illogical as yourself - that's impossible - but it is to highlight your foolishness. - More arrogance, it would be illogical and foolish to believe someone who has moaned about the Kibble for years without basis.

Your blame of the Kibble for legacy Ralston issues is actual evidence, your view can't be trusted as it is clouded by an agenda. 

 

 

 

 

Bazil I’m with you on this. Kibble bashing is not on.

Imagine any fan having the audacity in questioning a freebie from the Kibble. The kibble are here to help the club.

They project managed (for free i hasten to add)  a £80k refurb with an over spend of £400k. That freebie saved the club circa £20k on professional fees. The pm team kept a tight reign on the control of that £80k budget. 

It could have been financially worse for the club without that valued input. Imagine if the Kibble Project Management team had not gone for one of their trusted supply chain  contractors like , Kibbleworks. Sorry Renderworks and awarded the job to a reputable builder who had a track record of doing this type of work and making bigger claims.

Do the Kibble PM team have any experience in project managing the build of 2 new ferries. (Asking for a friend)

I also agree Mr Wardrop was a bit salty. Also a bit gullible. Imagine expecting a fellow Director of the business they both represent declaring a conflict of interest on the land when the other company pays his wages. Dohhhh. You have got to know what side your bread is buttered. Also why tell the SMFC board that the Kibble were already at advanced stages on the land when you can find out information for your employer and help advance your career. Are Kibble now branching out in the espionage world and suppling trained agents to MI5 sorry MFI. 

Also do the Kibble have any trained plumbers. If so could they fix the leaks that are coming from the SMFC boardroom around where the Kibble guys sit. Bloody Gordon Scott he was in charge of the build.

[bazil85]

29 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Bazil I’m with you on this. Kibble bashing is not on.

Imagine any fan having the audacity in questioning a freebie from the Kibble. The kibble are here to help the club.

They project managed (for free i hasten to add)  a £80k refurb with an over spend of £400k. That freebie saved the club circa £20k on professional fees. The pm team kept a tight reign on the control of that £80k budget. 

It could have been financially worse for the club without that valued input. Imagine if the Kibble Project Management team had not gone for one of their trusted supply chain  contractors like , Kibbleworks. Sorry Renderworks and awarded the job to a reputable builder who had a track record of doing this type of work and making bigger claims.

Do the Kibble PM team have any experience in project managing the build of 2 new ferries. (Asking for a friend)

I also agree Mr Wardrop was a bit salty. Also a bit gullible. Imagine expecting a fellow Director of the business they both represent declaring a conflict of interest on the land when the other company pays his wages. Dohhhh. You have got to know what side your bread is buttered. Also why tell the SMFC board that the Kibble were already at advanced stages on the land when you can find out information for your employer and help advance your career. Are Kibble now branching out in the espionage world and suppling trained agents to MI5 sorry MFI. 

Also do the Kibble have any trained plumbers. If so could they fix the leaks that are coming from the SMFC boardroom around where the Kibble guys sit. Bloody Gordon Scott he was in charge of the build.

I'm with you, right? Imagine fans asserting that the issues at Ralston & the cost to fix them were all the Kibble's fault & clearly were only really to the tune of £80k. I bought my most recent home for over £400k, if only I went for a different estate agent. It would definitely have been down in the £80k region. More fool me, certainly blame the Kibble personally. 

Imagine even calling it a conflict of interest when one of the parties, has no interest in it... Some people. Or am I missing something? Did SMFC want to buy that land? Did they have vested interested in it's usage the Kibble are proposing? Do we even know what land it was? I hope they aren't buying out the place that does the Big Yards breakfast, now that would conflict my interests. 

They do have trained plumbers they can put you in contact with, it's £4 million an hour if you go through Kibble project management, but if you go through a "reputable" supplier of plumbing, you should be able to get them for a score. 

That pesky Gordon Scott as well, he really doesn't get a hard enough time on here. I mean what did he ever do for St Mirren apart from, lead us to fan ownership, oversee several years of financial stability and have the legacy of his chairman run, move a team fighting part-time league 1 football to a bawhair off SP top 6. What an imposter... 

[slapsalmon]

4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I bought my most recent home for over £400k, if only I went for a different estate agent. It would definitely have been down in the £80k region. More fool me, certainly blame the Kibble personally. 

 

You'd have been pissed off if you'd got the final bill from the estate agent and it was 5 times more than you thought though 

[BuddieinEK]

6 minutes ago, slapsalmon said:

You'd have been pissed off if you'd got the final bill from the estate agent and it was 5 times more than you thought though 

Unless the Kibble were the estate agents in which case you obviously do not understand the current financial climate. They need to protect their "investment"! 🤐

Well justified. 

 

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, slapsalmon said:

You'd have been pissed off if you'd got the final bill from the estate agent and it was 5 times more than you thought though 

 

1 hour ago, BuddieinEK said:

Unless the Kibble were the estate agents in which case you obviously do not understand the current financial climate. They need to protect their "investment"! 🤐

Well justified. 

 

Well… the point has just went right over both your heads eh 🤷‍♂️

[doakie]

5 hours ago, bazil85 said:

 

Imagine even calling it a conflict of interest when one of the parties, has no interest in it... Some people. Or am I missing something? Did SMFC want to buy that land? Did they have vested interested in it's usage the Kibble are proposing? Do we even know what land it was?

Against my better judgement I'll allow myself to get drawn into Bazil's shitshow by pointing out that he's either now forgotten the original post or not even read it. 

"Imagine even calling it a conflict of interest when one of the parties, has no interest in it" he bleats when I laid out the scenario for everyone to read. Here's what I said:

"Alan (Wardrop) said that, in August 2022, Mark McMillan of Kibble was asked by the St.Mirren board to engage with Renfrewshire Council with a view to growing the area around the stadium. The idea was to potentially switch the Academy from Ralston to this area.

However, Mr. McMillan apparently failed to mention to his fellow board directors that he was already in conversations with RDC around a Scot Gov funding application made in June 2022 to transfer land “adjacent to the stadium” to Kibble ownership.

So, of the six board members, apparently only the two Kibble reps knew about the application while the remaining four directors were unaware. Alan’s opinion is that this is a conflict of interest but the matter only came to light when the application for funding progressed to stage 2 and was announced publicly in September 2022."

Of course, Bazil believes neither me nor Alan Wardrop even though he wasn't present at the meeting and didn't hear a single syllable but it doesn't stop him from disputing my version of events. Oh dear.

In the meantime, I can't say for certain that either Wardrop's opinion or McMillan's opinion is more accurate - because I was not at the board meeting when the application was discussed  but I do know who was more plausible at the AGM. By the way, not one single attendee has disputed my summary, funny that. You'd think that at least one attendee just might have posted a contradiction if what I said was misleading

So Bazil, even though he was absent, has concluded that "one of the parties, has no interest in it". How would someone who was not present know whether one of the parties has no interest. Kibble have made no such statement but their PR guru defends them at all costs.

The bottom line is that this braggard who boasts of his £400,000 house is merely a stubborn fellow who desperately and ungraciously avoids admitting that he is wrong. Anyone who disagrees then becomes embroiled in playground arguments in which he desperately tries to muddy the waters to satisfy his lust for proving himself right. 

Many shareholders left the AGM feeling unsatisfied but, because this doesn't suit his narrative, Bazil puts forward a catalogue of misinformation to try and persuade us that it was all nonsense. 

I'm told that the Smisa board will issue the  minutes in the near future but, even then, I predict that Bazil, the AGM non attendee, will take issue with that. I won't hold my breath for an apology when the minutes are issued.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by doakie

[BuddieinEK]

54 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 

Well… the point has just went right over both your heads eh 🤷‍♂️

Broken your promise already oh needy one. 😂😂😂😂

 

I didn't mention you.

I didn't reference you. 

You quoted me.

You are aDICKted!

Shame on you. 

[faraway saint]

Jesus wept. 🙄

[Percy Veer]

8 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Jesus wept. 🙄

Quality irony there, Faraway.  Quality irony.

[faraway saint]

1 minute ago, Percy Veer said:

Quality irony there, Faraway.  Quality irony.

Thanks Shull. 😜

[BuddieinEK]

52 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Jesus wept. 🙄

Don't you start bully boy. 

 

[gorgo]

Think everyone is missing the point the Blame lies with SMISA. No one else SMISA LIED TO THE SUPPORT AND THEIR OWN MEMBERS. SMISA and their members voted kibble in so take your views up with SMISA lol good luck with that

Ps

Alan wardrop is a member of SMISA LOL
could not make this cluster up

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

[Percy Veer]

3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Thanks Shull. 😜

Accusing someone of being another member's alias - your "go to" when you get "rattled" as you like to call it! 😜🤪