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The AGM controversy


doakie

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5 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

It must be their best kept secret. Their webpage makes no reference to Project Management on commercial construction projects. 

PMing a few kids making a birdtable makes them a teacher not a Project Manager

Moving some goalposts there eH? They have a project manager & project lead on LinkedIn (who knows how many more are involved in the Project management side). 
 

Now I don’t know their remit regarding ‘construction projects’ do you? If they are project managers/ leads on bird table making, sign me up. Easiest project management roles in history. 👍

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35 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Moving some goalposts there eH? They have a project manager & project lead on LinkedIn (who knows how many more are involved in the Project management side). 
 

Now I don’t know their remit regarding ‘construction projects’ do you? If they are project managers/ leads on bird table making, sign me up. Easiest project management roles in history. 👍

 

Every industry has a project. Therefore anyone can call themselves a Project Manager. My wife is organising the grass to be cut. She is the landscape Project Manager of the house.

Point is Construction Project management comes with a significant level of different skills to teaching knitting and sowing. Also if it is on LinkedIn it must be true.

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Just now, Brilliant Disguise said:

Every industry has a project. Therefore anyone can call themselves a Project Manager. My wife is organising the grass to be cut. She is the landscape Project Manager of the house.

Point is Construction Project management comes with a significant level of different skills to teaching knitting and sowing. Also if it is on LinkedIn it must be true.

Your claim of ‘zero’ project management experience has been blown apart. We can both see, you’re now just second guessing the negative. Accept it, move on, you’ll be better for it. 👍

Also, project management skills are often transferable. A project manager doesn’t need to be an expert in the field they manage, that’s almost exactly why they exist. To source & manage the experts. 

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7 minutes ago, Albanian Buddy said:

“Multimillion pound institution”

Exactly how is this revenue generated? 

 

 

It’s a charity so I imagine a combination of donation, grants & contracts with partners it uses in supplying the people in their care. I’m not close enough to know though so if you really want to know, you probably want to do some reading up. 
 

What have I missed regarding the Kibble? Why are there some St Mirren fans that are so wary of their motives & seemingly, just general existence. 🤷‍♂️

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2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

What’s wrong with the Kibbles track record exactly? 

Going by what a previous kibble employee on here who worked posted about the Experience up in Hillington quite a lot went wrong with that project.

Public records state that significant amount of external charitable funding went into that project build.

After a few short years running up significant debt in region of £2M it was forced to be closed down. It’s in their annual reports. 

The two General managers who ran that project into debt and subsequent closure ended up working for “free” at our club.

That kibble employee said that the 3rd party company involved with the hillington project were involved at Ralston. 

 

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I suppose we the fans, will never find out the true sequence of events re Ralston. Unless the two Kibble "brothers" from a few posts ago do eventually spill the beans. its all conspiracy theories but lessons to be learned.

An experienced construction contractor on the board not asked for advice or opinion and did not seemingly offer any either.

Insinuation of blame laid at departed CEO

Was the job too big for the Kibble team, compounded by mitigations caused by pandemic etc like loss of labour and increased costs of RMs.

Also a big step from training in a workshop and providing labour for a project of this size

 

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3 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

It’s a charity so I imagine a combination of donation, grants & contracts with partners it uses in supplying the people in their care. I’m not close enough to know though so if you really want to know, you probably want to do some reading up. 
 

What have I missed regarding the Kibble? Why are there some St Mirren fans that are so wary of their motives & seemingly, just general existence. 🤷‍♂️

Clearly you should do significant more research before commenting on topics you clearly know not enough about.

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2 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

I think the important thing to remember in this is the presence on the board of a former majority shareholder, who is also the founder and former owner of a pretty large property maintenance and facility management company.  That person was in charge of the Client's role during the design and construction of the current stadium.  All the expertise and experience you need to make competent appointments of project manager and principle contractor rolled up into one person.  He surely had the opportunity as a director to set this project up properly?

When you look at the other personnel involved as directors then there is no way that Kibble should have been alllowed to run this project into the ground.  Perhaps preventing them from adding this blemish to an otherwise chequered history as a developer of premises?

 

That particular director, when asked at the AGM why he didn’t oversee the project, answered by saying he was never asked to get involved . And to answer one of your other questions, the “ legacy issues “ referred to are I believe the issues left by the previous board who sold their shares to SMiSA. Those issues in part being damp and rot in the then buildings which was simply boarded over to hide the problem. Those issues were not apparent when the deal went through but were noticed not long afterwards along with the broken undersoil heating system at the stadium.

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3 minutes ago, Albanian Buddy said:

Going by what a previous kibble employee on here who worked posted about the Experience up in Hillington quite a lot went wrong with that project.

Public records state that significant amount of external charitable funding went into that project build.

After a few short years running up significant debt in region of £2M it was forced to be closed down. It’s in their annual reports. 

The two General managers who ran that project into debt and subsequent closure ended up working for “free” at our club.

That kibble employee said that the 3rd party company involved with the hillington project were involved at Ralston. 

 

Kibble management put its failure down to loss of customer base due to covid and turned facility into training venue according to press reports.

Youth charity Kibble to transform entertainment hub into new skills academy - Daily Record

 

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1 minute ago, Albanian Buddy said:

Clearly you should do significant more research before commenting on topics you clearly know not enough about.

I’m calling out people making baseless assumptions & moon howling about the Kibble. This happens on here often & it’s almost always shown to be people having needless meltdowns. 
 

Yet again though, if you have actual evidence for the Kibble being to blame for the Ralston project, fill your boots. 
 

As for ‘the Experience’ yep, Covid is a bi**h and it hammered a lot of businesses, very unfortunate. Well done the Kibble on repurposing the location though to turn it into a positive for the people they support. 👍

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26 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Your claim of ‘zero’ project management experience has been blown apart. We can both see, you’re now just second guessing the negative. Accept it, move on, you’ll be better for it. 👍

Also, project management skills are often transferable. A project manager doesn’t need to be an expert in the field they manage, that’s almost exactly why they exist. To source & manage the experts. 

You are one deluded individual. The last part explains your ignorance and lack of understanding on the complexity that is involved in development and construction. To infer that someone who Project Manages say a Welding Plant can have inter-transferable skills and knowledge  to manage a construction project with issues such as Planning, Warrant, Utilities, Tenders, Contracts, Condition of Contracts, SOA, Programmes, Change Control, Valuations, Variations, HSE, CDM to name but a few is possibly the reason the club are reporting a loss.

Remember the £400k+ issue is a wendyhouse that went wrong. Thank goodness they were not building something more complex. 

But don’t worry the service was free

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5 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

You are one deluded individual. The last part explains your ignorance and lack of understanding on the complexity that is involved in development and construction. To infer that someone who Project Manages say a Welding Plant can have inter-transferable skills and knowledge  to manage a construction project with issues such as Planning, Warrant, Utilities, Tenders, Contracts, Condition of Contracts, SOA, Programmes, Change Control, Valuations, Variations, HSE, CDM to name but a few is possibly the reason the club are reporting a loss.

Remember the £400k+ issue is a wendyhouse that went wrong. Thank goodness they were not building something more complex. 

But don’t worry the service was free

You made an ar*e of your project management claim & showed you have absolutely zero knowledge of the level of experience, the Kibble has on construction project management. 

You can own that or you can keep digging. 👍

Edited by bazil85
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2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Yet again though, if you have actual evidence for the Kibble being to blame for the Ralston project, fill your boots. 
 

As for ‘the Experience’ yep, Covid is a bi**h and it hammered a lot of businesses, very unfortunate. Well done the Kibble on repurposing the location though to turn it into a positive for the people they support. 👍

 

I’ve already stated that both sides must shoulder blame. Problem is that some one clearly made money out of the mismanaged project and the club made a significant loss due to overspend.

The Experience was losing heaps of money prior to Covid.

But it’s ok. It’s just a charity. After all the next round of grant funding will sort it out. 

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8 minutes ago, alanb said:

Was the job too big for the Kibble team, compounded by mitigations caused by pandemic etc like loss of labour and increased costs of RMs.

 

Under an industry standard contract. All of the ones mentioned are a risk that sits with the Contractor not the Client.

The contractor should also be signed up to Liquidated Damages and required to play the Client if they run late.

To give Bazil his due none of us know exactly what transpired on the procurement or the management of the project. Only the Club and Board do. We can dance around who is to blame, however the blame for the overspend and lateness of the contract must lie with the Board. The Board allow the overspend to go on

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4 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

You made an ar*e of your project management claim & showed you have absolutely zero knowledge of the level of experience, the Kibble has on construction project management. 

You can own that or you can keep digging. 👍

Bazil please enlighten me to what experience they have in the field. Please ensure you reference other commercial projects.

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1 minute ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Under an industry standard contract. All of the ones mentioned are a risk that sits with the Contractor not the Client.

The contractor should also be signed up to Liquidated Damages and required to play the Client if they run late.

To give Bazil his due none of us know exactly what transpired on the procurement or the management of the project. Only the Club and Board do. We can dance around who is to blame, however the blame for the overspend and lateness of the contract must lie with the Board. The Board allow the overspend to go on

Maybe the Kibble did it as a " homer" at "mates rates" 

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6 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

But don’t worry the service was free

It reminds me of these door to door sellers and telesales who prey on the elderly and the poor selling all sorts of “free” advice along with an amazing product that the buyer probably never required but clearly is a way of emptying the pockets of the ill informed. 

A project of this nature should have gone out to formal tender to allow due diligence and assess all costs. 

As I say let’s hope our club learn from this and don’t make further mistakes that prove costly. 

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3 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Bazil please enlighten me to what experience they have in the field. Please ensure you reference other commercial projects.

No idea, hence why I’m not saying they’ve completely f*cked it or they’ve came out smelling of roses. 
 

My personal view is it’s extremely unlikely they just happened to end up costing us around 5X the initial estimates needlessly, because I feel it would be far bigger news & someone would have blown the whistle. 
 

I also find it extremely unlikely a company the size of the Kibble & the services they offer, don’t have people on their books with project management experience that would complement what was needed at Ralston. Especially when it seems evident they have a project management team. 
 

Finally, Projects like the experience, the need for facilities on their campuses for kids & the Kibble works side of things, I assume there has been elements of project management there that will almost certainly have transferable skills to a relatively small, training ground location. 

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