Gary Lineker

[faraway saint]

Just started watching "last nights" Match of the Day.

No introduction about the teams/players, no commentary, no point. 

Switched it off. 

[StanleySaint]

Didn't bother watching it as I watched the Gillette Soccer Saturday and it was adequately covered on that.

[stlucifer]

19 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Sorry EK but got to disagree on a couple of points here, “he shared personal thoughts “ personal thoughts are what they say in the tin, personal, they cease to be personal when you broadcast them to millions of others via social media.

The fact he shared them doesn't make them less personal. Which is the main point.

The comment he made likening the current government’s illegal immigration policy to Hitlers national socialist government of the 1930s is very offensive to the Jewish community in Britain and beyond. The comment diminishes and minimises the plight of Jews, Roma and many others who suffered during Hitlers reign. 

Nonsense. Likening the statement from the ultra right wing bassa of an MP who is riding roughshod over international law in no way diminishes the past crimes of a regime which, on  many fronts, seems to be being replicated by this disgrace of a government. What you're spouting is the smokescreen they are using.
 

You speak of compassion and conscience, the British taxpayer via the government is currently saving people in the English Channel from drowning on a daily basis that are crossing from a safe country (France) they are then housing them in hotels which the taxpayer is funding at a cost of £6 million a week,  they will then be given the legal right to apply for British citizenship. Does that sound like Hitler's Germany? 

FFS! This has nothing to do with "saving people in the English channel". You know that though. It is wholly to do with cowing to the right wing racsists and dividing the population using that racism as a weapon. Make no mistake. This won't stop the people smugglers. This sort of threat has been hanging over the refugees for a while and still the boats keep coming. Anyone with a miniscule of sense knows that the only way to tackle this is to makke sure there are enough proper ways to come here and attack those who are perpetrating the crime. Not poor souls who, in the main, are either running for their lives or simply ntrying to find somewhere where they will be able to live better. I have to say though. This Government are really getting to grips with that side of it by ensuring many of their own population can't afford to live properly.

with regards to conscience and solidarity, did it play a part in Gary commentating for the BBC in Quatar? No, his morals are obviously for sale to the highest bidder. 

Can't argue with this point though.
 

 
 

 

[faraway saint]

3 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

 

Jesus christ. 

[ALBIONSAINT]

I think there might be more to this story than the comment about the illegal immigration policy this week, I have to confess I am not a big reader of the Jewish chronicle, but it seems he is getting into the habit of upsetting Jewish people on a regular basis now and his latest one might just be the straw that broke the camel’s back.   

[ALBIONSAINT]

21 hours ago, StanleySaint said:

Spoilt brats the lot of them, must be great to have such a secure income (our licence fee) that you can turn down work because of your “principles “

 

So you've never taken industrial action then? Because as I see it they've withdrawn their services on principle as you would do by going on strike.

No Stanleysaint never been on strike, I remember the Rootes plant strikes and how it destroyed the Scottish car industry. 
Unfortunately I have never been in the financial position that ex-premiership football players are in. Given that principles and moral beliefs don’t fill your belly I can’t see me withdrawing my capital any time soon. 

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

No Stanleysaint never been on strike, I remember the Rootes plant strikes and how it destroyed the Scottish car industry. 
Unfortunately I have never been in the financial position that ex-premiership football players are in. Given that principles and moral beliefs don’t fill your belly I can’t see me withdrawing my capital any time soon. 

Was it not Chrysler workers, AKA Krazy K, that constantly walked out? IIRC, most of the time the company antagonised them when the car park was full of new cars.

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Was it not Chrysler workers, AKA Krazy K, that constantly walked out? IIRC, most of the time the company antagonised them when the car park was full of new cars.

I think you'll find the unions/workers destroyed the company.

A similar case of shooting themselves in the foot was when Ford were planning to open a NEW car plant up here in Dundee.

Before a brick was laid the union's demands resulted in Ford fecking off to Spain, as I recall. 

Unions, a necessary evil just about sums them up. 

[alanb]

Just now, stlucifer said:

Was it not Chrysler workers, AKA Krazy K, that constantly walked out? IIRC, most of the time the company antagonised them when the car park was full of new cars.

I was told this by a former employee who I worked with elsewhere. His wife worked in the offices and could tell him when to prepare for a strike.

Management would create a situation and a strike would follow, this was to slow down production.

Anecdotal but there you go.

[stlucifer]

Back to Lineker and free speech. And the tories control of the BBC's "impartiality"

 

I do hope we, as a collection of nations, don't fall into the trap.

Edited March 12, 2023 by stlucifer

[stlucifer]

2 minutes ago, alanb said:

I was told this by a former employee who I worked with elsewhere. His wife worked in the offices and could tell him when to prepare for a strike.

Management would create a situation and a strike would follow, this was to slow down production.

Anecdotal but there you go.

Both my wife's parents worked in the factory, I worked in there as an apprentice contracting for a time and it DEFINITELY happened.

[alanb]

11 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Both my wife's parents worked in the factory, I worked in there as an apprentice contracting for a time and it DEFINITELY happened.

Funny how the workers always get blamed.

[antrin]

10 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Both my wife's parents worked in the factory, I worked in there as an apprentice contracting for a time and it DEFINITELY happened.

I also worked there.

The company was making money from the cars made at Linwood. The cars were sold to another arm of the business, then sold on to the public - at a much higher price than paid to the manufacturing arm.

Linwood was efficient, viable and profitable.  The Linwood unions (and workers) were aware of the management’s sleight of hand.  Unfortunately, the sole weapon available was a blunt one - industrial action.

The work was shifted elsewhere.

Aye, it was unsurprising that the workers carried that can of blame. As usual.

 

[faraway saint]

I had an uncle, dearly departed, who was one of the MANY union rep's in Linwood and he was quite pleased with himself when he'd had a few, mainly Christmas & New Year, to announce how him and his co union rep's downed tools for any reason just to show the management who was boss. 

Funny how it's always the management/government's fault. 

Joe public never seem willing to take any responsibility, more so nowadays, blame everybody else. 

[Wilbur]

I worked there too.

The industrial relations problems at Linwood were caused by both management and the unions whenever it suited them.

IMO the biggest problem at Linwood was the product. Poorly designed cars, mainly low spec and rotten build quality. I couldn't understand anybody wanting to buy one.

[Callum Gilhooley]

27 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I think you'll find the unions/workers destroyed the company.

A similar case of shooting themselves in the foot was when Ford were planning to open a NEW car plant up here in Dundee.

Before a brick was laid the union's demands resulted in Ford fecking off to Spain, as I recall. 

Unions, a necessary evil just about sums them up. 

That’s a very broad  , and May I say inaccurate statement .

There were massive issues on both sides.

Management were under severe pressure to reduce production due to a glut of unsold cars, the need to modernise with little or no money to bring in new models and the rise of the vastly superior Japanese models.
They wanted to avoid having to lay off workers at cost and try to re-hire things picked up.
There were  Many stories of management “dirty tricks” to provoke action to halt production and reduce the stockpile and yes, the Workers, especially in the earlier  days would strike if the sun was at the wrong angle in the sky,  but that was no different from the British Car industry and heavy industry in general in the uk at the time. 
PSA who owned the marques wanted to retreat into their bases nearer home and their target markets and investing in 4 or 5 UK sites was never going to happen so the furthest away, most outdated and hardest to service site was always going to be targeted for closure.

The whole scenario was debated at length in both UK Houses.The general consensus  If you check Hansard you will see many contributions from Lords on both side of the house but to do a very simple summary, general feeling was that the French owners would need squillions in Gov assistance to carry on but no way Thatcher was going to sanction that sort of spend in an area that was Redder than a Scarlet Ferrari . 
 

It was a very complex and difficult scenario and you’ll never get any of the sides involved (PSA, Talbot Uk,Gov UK , workers & Unions) to agree on what killed Linwood - I’d say all sides played their part.

Oh , & for the record , I’m not a Union man, never been in a Union in my life and don’t intend ever to join one but if it wasn’t for (many) of them , we wouldn’t have most of the workers rights and privileges we have today and these Tory Cnuts would still be sending weans down mines if we had any and up chimneys if they could .

 

[Callum Gilhooley]

10 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

I worked there too.

The industrial relations problems at Linwood were caused by both management and the unions whenever it suited them.

IMO the biggest problem at Linwood was the product. Poorly designed cars, mainly low spec and rotten build quality. I couldn't understand anybody wanting to buy one.

I believe at one point the company were paying as much out in warranty claims as they made from selling the cars.

[faraway saint]

1 hour ago, faraway saint said:

 

A similar case of shooting themselves in the foot was when Ford were planning to open a NEW car plant up here in Dundee.

Before a brick was laid the union's demands resulted in Ford fecking off to Spain, as I recall. 

Unions, a necessary evil just about sums them up. 

I'll draw your attention to the highlighted section above.

14 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

 

Oh , & for the record , I’m not a Union man, never been in a Union in my life and don’t intend ever to join one but if it wasn’t for (many) of them , we wouldn’t have most of the workers rights and privileges we have today

 

Oh and I'll draw your attention to this section of another post..................

Funny how it's always the management/government's fault. 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by faraway saint

[Callum Gilhooley]

3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I'll draw your attention to the highlighted section above.

 

And ? 🤷‍♂️

I never questioned that -  I’ll draw YOUR attention to the part I highlighted in your post which prompted my reply .

“I think you'll find the unions/workers destroyed the company.”

ETA : A statement which is simplistic and wrong 

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Callum Gilhooley

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

And ? 🤷‍♂️

I never questioned that -  I’ll draw YOUR attention to the part I highlighted in your post which prompted my reply .

“I think you'll find the unions/workers destroyed the company.”

And?

See the edited post above.

PS I notice you never challenged equally as simplistic posts blaming the management.  

Edited March 12, 2023 by faraway saint

[Callum Gilhooley]

4 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

And?

See the edited post above. 

Question.  do you agree your statement which I’ve taken issue with is inaccurate or not ?    

[faraway saint]

13 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

Question.  do you agree your statement which I’ve taken issue with is inaccurate or not ?    

It's partially accurate. 

Indeed as it was my only real direct connection with the Linwood plant it heavily influenced my view on unions, or to be more accurate, union leaders.

PS See the edited part of my previous post. 

Or, to save us crisscrossing posts, this line......................PS I notice you never challenged equally as simplistic posts blaming the management.  

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by faraway saint

[Callum Gilhooley]

3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Indeed as it was my only real direct connection with the Linwood plant it heavily influenced my view on unions, or to be more accurate, union leaders.

PS See the edited part of my previous post. 

Or, to save us crisscrossing posts, this line......................PS I notice you never challenged equally as simplistic posts blaming the management.  

 

You obviously missed the part of my post where I said the workers would strike if the sun was in the wrong place ? 🤷‍♂️

just to clarify - the plant closed for a variety of reasons as I set out, . All parties to blame but to say simply as you did , the workers and unions destroyed the company is totally wrong .  

As far as I can see no one has made that claim about the management . 
They are saying that management would antagonise or try to provoke strikes among a workforce who were more than happy to oblige.

. I’d say that’s the view of most people who know anything about Linwood . 
 

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, alanb said:

Funny how the workers always get blamed.

If I was blaming the workers for anything it was bad timing and being easily duped. Although it was a case of "damned if they don't".

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

 

. I’d say that’s the view of most people who know anything about Linwood . 
 

I only "know" what I gleaned from my Uncle, which was, as pointed out by another poster, only anecdotal. 

I'm way too young to "know" much more so I couldn't add any more as that would just be unhelpful.